How long could trouble in paradise actually persist? Let's look at history.

Ohio State v Michigan (regarded by most east of the Mississippi as THE rivalry):

John Cooper v Michigan: 2-10-1

Why did they keep him so long, especially in that environment?

John Cooper overall: 111-43-4

However much howling, backbiting and gnashing of teeth ensues, Stoops will leave his present job when he is ready, and on his own terms. Unlike, say, Switzer, whose record was insufficient, finally, to create enough amnesty for everything else.

Rivalry games matter. But they do not exist in a vacuum to the exclusion of all else.

Still at it Loki? So because Ohio State held on to John Cooper past the expiration date that means everyone else will? You left out something in your pitiful little rant and they are pitiful, Cooper won NO national titles. We are not speaking of ALL else we are talking about success on the college football landscape, as is said all the time, 1 billion chinese could give a darn. Some facts you left out about Mr. Cooper, never won an outright Big Ten title at Ohio State. Even at ASU he couldn't beat AZ. Beating rivals seemed to be a problem for him. You old enough to remember why he got job at Ohio State? ASU had just defeated...MICHIGAN. 3-8 in bowl games besides the 2-10-1, he too left amid player scandals. You mention Barry, good point, he had scandals all the time, but kept job why? Hmm? Oh yea, he beat Texas and Nebraska year in and year out, won some occasional bowl games and national titles. 9 and 5 bowl record.
And stop back pedalling Loki, your stance was conference banner from two years ago is more important then beating Texas. In the big game between Texas and Oklahoma, conference banners mean nothing unless they end in NATIONAL TITLE.
OSU just dispatched Texas A&M and even the silly announcers got it, it translates into recruits for OSU. That is who OSU's main competitor is for players. Just became easier on OSU to walk into these kids living rooms. The picker is usually on wrong side of things, but on this one, it is only the simple truth.

Don's World, I understand looking at Cooper's record from a conference championship and Nat'l Championship point of view and using that to justify Cooper's demise. My point would be those 2 things would always depend on his ability to beat Michigan. It's not like the Big Ten had any other teams capable of beating either of those teams so the conference championship ALWAYS came down to that one game and hence the Rose Bowl berth and National championship implications that go with it. Lloyd Carr got run out of Michigan for the same exact reason...he couldn't beat Ohio State and hence was not a part of the conference championship or Rose Bowl picture. RC Slocum got ousted at Texas A&M because he couldn't beat Texas (and A&M is still regretting that as they have not been a true threat in the Big XII south since his departure). Usually rivalry games have a much bigger impact on a team's big picture success, so while I agree that reasoning behind coaches being fired for not producing big picture results is true, not winning those rivalry games has a huge impact on that. (One exception was the year OU got walloped by Texas and still got to go to the Big XII and Fiesta Bowl because of the Big XII's random tie breaker.

Hey Pick: Maybe more of the reason Venables is still there is because he may realize he's got it made. 1.KSU would have hired him when they hired Ron Prince but he was smart enough not to try and follow a legend... and his college coach.(where is Ron Prince now?) 2. The guy makes about 400k a year to coach ball.... and coach ball only. No press conferences or 'schooner tours' or whatever that is, no spotlight on you everyday of your life. 3. Was defense really the reason they lost 5 games last year? With the exception of @ TT last year (neither side of the ball showed up for that one)OU's defense was very good last year. The shutdown of Stanford and Toby Gerhart looks better today than it did last January. Held the best team in the country to 16 points (Texas), shutout the Cotton Bowl bound Cowboys...It's funny, FSU was a top 25, good team before OU played but after OU hammered em, they became crappy... Unsound reasoning. Most likely see OU's and UT's defenses get the best of the offenses tomorrow.

Think we just covered that. If McCoy doesnt get hurt vs the Tide, UT is National Champs. I thought OSU averaged like 480 yards/game last year and crossed mid-field once in Norman last year...

OU's defense shut down Texas Tech in 2008 when they came to Norman 10-0,it was 42-7 at halftime.

Uh, Bla? You just said exactly what I was saying, this is a running battle between Loki and myself, who insists meaningless conference title banners from two years ago that were backed into as you mentioned due to Texas loss to Tech is more important then beating Texas or your rivals. Beating your rivals is, and I hate agreeing with him, as the Picker says, paramount. Cooper was eventually fired for his losses to Michigan, Tressell knew the importance of beating Michigan, making the infamous pep rally speech during Basketball game about beating them. I have always maintained that beating Texas is the well spring from which all good things flow. Beat them and everything else becomes easier.
Sooner Sam? There are no negatives in winning, none. I know you are Sooner fan as I am, but I am glad they won, luck had nothing to do with it. In fact they won in spite of poor game management by coaches, and an inspired A&M squad. I am pleased that they didn't fold at the end like a typical OSU squad.

CORRECTION: Stoops is 69-2 (.971) at home (as of 9/18/10)

Mack Browns peanut gallery almost had him out of there, was far worse down there, without the arrival of Vince Young he would be gone. Which would have been a mistake.
Now you are confusing me Loki, I cannot see anywhere where I was calling for Stoop's job. That would also be a mistake, in fact I think you would have to show me where the Picker was calling for Stoops job. PS how well did the coaches between Switzer and Stoops fair in rivalry games? Truly I have never seen anyone so wrong on a subject in my life and still defend their position. Attorney? The subject was defeating Texas versus the conference banner from two years ago when it comes to the importance of recruiting. Now I know being an OSU fan puts you at a disadvantage when it comes to banners and beating rivals, so trust those that have been around longer. Beating Texas today was far more important then being Big 12 champ 2 years ago. Let it go.

Last item: You don't get to revise your way out of this. The subject was the primacy of the rivalry game.

I said the rivalry game was important, but not to the exclusion of all else. Conference titles are important. The millionaire coach at OU agrees with my assessment. (Quote available upon request.)

In my humble way, I have tried to point out the fallacy in your thinking, and Pick's thinking.

It's all there in black and white. I am stipulating you are NOT reading impaired.

No, I wont try it Pick. Just because some wont give in to the 'pressure of the Pick' doesnt mean you are always right. The main theme remains the same. Once OU beats someone, that team automatically becomes inept according to the Pick. Air Force and FSU ranked and Utah St just creamed BYU... but none of them are any good. I get it that this OU D is not great. I'd love to wager the Longhorns @ Lincoln. Bet Horns win.