anthony bhal, tulsa (8/10/2007 5:25:02 AM)

How about holding congress to honor it's commitment to the Cherokee's? Oh but the "Dr" coburn cant remove his head from is a**. How this man is a medical dr is amazing in itself. HEY TOM... your from OKLAHOMA.. STAY OUT OF INDIAN BUSINESS.

pb, tulsa (8/10/2007 6:38:09 AM)

I am not part of the cherokee tribe, but I don't see why the decendent of slaves that are not Cherokee Indian should be classified as Cherokee Indians. America doent pay Black people because they were once slaves in America. Why should the Cherokees pay decendents of Slaves?

pb, tulsa (8/10/2007 6:39:02 AM)

I agree with anthony, the feds need to stay out of it.

Steve Osburn, Miami (8/10/2007 7:31:16 AM)

Article 9 of Cherokee Treaty of 1866

The Cherokee Nation having, voluntarily, in February, eighteen hundred and sixty-three, by an act of the national council, forever abolished slavery, hereby covenant and agree that never hereafter shall either slavery or involuntary servitude exist in their nation otherwise than in the punishment of crime, whereof the party shall have been duly convicted, in accordance with laws applicable to all the members of said tribe alike. They further agree that all freedmen who have been liberated by voluntary act of their former owners or by law, as well as all free colored persons who were in the country at the commencement of the rebellion, and are now residents therein, or who may return within six months, and their descendants, shall have all the rights of native Cherokees: Provided, That owners of slaves so emancipated in the Cherokee Nation shall never receive any compensation or pay for the slaves so emancipated.

Steve Osburn, Miami (8/10/2007 7:35:04 AM)

Anthony, did the same thing to the Delaware tribe and now it's his turn to lose his (really the taxpayers) money that is earmarked for needy Cherokees.

Steve Osburn

Cherokee Delaware

I and many other Cherokees asked Tom Coburn, Diane Watson, Maxine Waters, Boren and Inhofe and Senator Kyl to do something. Of course Boren won't because he's Chad's buddy. I let every member of Congress know I totally approve H.D. 2824 to cut funding and federal recognition to the Bogus corporation that calls itself Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma because it never existed till 75/76. It's not the origianl Cherokee Nation.

John Cornsilk, Tahlequah (8/10/2007 8:04:38 AM)

The rhetoric of apparent racist dunderheads is always so apparent, Don't you think Steve? Now I am unable to say much about this article, because to counter things I use links to documents but they do not allow links...

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Now I will say it is very good that Senator Coburn has come out on the side of right, Chief Smith being a lawyer knows the law but chooses to BS the world.

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With Congress woman coming to the area for some town hall meetings and smith wanting to waste her time with rhetoric he has already bs'ed the DC folks with is nothing more than an attempt at curtailing time she may have with REAL Cherokee folks with concerns.

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One of the things I would like to stress is, people learn about the issue before you condone blatant racism, this is what smith and cohorts about, I have posted much information by way of documentation on www indian com click their chat forum, and you can go to www cornsilks com then click CNO is BOGUS banner to find documentation on the bogus-ness in integrity of the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma and its leaders.

velma fallingpot, tulsa oklahoma (8/10/2007 8:10:02 AM)

The FEDS SHOULD be involved to the tune of over $300 million and over billions of Federal Grant $$ per year to the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma with no receipts in progress!

All true Cherokees know the freedmen walked the Trail just like Cherokees and now the CNO wants to change HISTORY to reflect this as not happening?-All the Freedmen asked for was equal rights as in the 1866 Treaty reads.

If the CNO doesn't want to follow the contract negotiations, then give back the federal dollars until it does! Simple!!

lee, (8/10/2007 8:30:32 AM)

Coburn is the same senator who only three years ago called treaties "primitive agreements" and a "joke" and said he didn't think important decisions should have to be based on treaties. What a hypocrite!

“I mean this is a joke,” Coburn said. “It is one thing for us to keep our obligations to recognize Native Americans, but it’s a totally different thing for us to allow a primitive agreement with the Native Americans to undermine Oklahoma’s future…”

Steve Osburn, Miami (8/10/2007 8:52:32 AM)

AM, lee,

That was before I talked to him : )

Steve Osburn

Cherokee Delaware

Steve Osburn, Miami (8/10/2007 9:03:19 AM)

The federal government is our protectorate and that's exactly why they are doing this. We have asked them to step in. Coburn always said of Indian issues, he would watch it closely, but it was up to the BIA etc. But Chad went too far and Coburn finally decided it's time to help the Cherokees, like Diane Watson and others did.

And this is not about Coburn or the U.S. breaking a treaty, it's about Cherokee Nation doing it with it's own tribal members. Delawres and Shawnees are also adopted by the Treaty and they would have been next to go.

I'm writing a book about Chad called "Yonega Chutoga Ikshe"

Michael Phillips, Tulsa (8/10/2007 9:06:30 AM)

Just because Chief Smith said "This issue has never been about race" doesn't make it so. It sounds like it is about race. If some group passed a rule expelling anyone who had Cherokee blood, Chief Smith would know that, that was about race. Banning people because they have no Cherokee blood is also about race.

I have always had confidence in Senator Coburn, because of positions such as this one.

Rachel, Tulsa (8/10/2007 9:22:26 AM)

Tom Coburn should mind his own business. The Cherokee Nation is a sovereign nation and the republicans just cannot accept that. Can't touch em!

To be a member of an indian tribe, you must be INDIAN. Maybe if I say it enough, you people will start to get it. YOU MUST HAVE INDIAN BLOOD TO BE AN INDIAN. It is sad that some of us grew up without any common sense, but it does not change anything.

Steve Osburn, Miami (8/10/2007 10:04:33 AM)

Rachel, looks like you are one of those without common sense. The freedmen are referred to in the treaty above. Can you not read or are you just too racist to admit what the treaty says?

lee, (8/10/2007 10:09:28 AM)

I seriously doubt that Steve. Coburn changes his stripes to suit him. I grew up in Muskogee and get really tired of reading about how he's from a poor, farming family. They literally are millionares and he is no friend to the Indian or any other minority group.

Rachel, Tulsa (8/10/2007 10:12:41 AM)

Nope. Not me. Again, you must have indian blood to be an indian. Plain and simple. The Cherokee Nation (and I will type real slow here for you) decided by a vote of the people, that non blood related blacks are NOT who we want as members. Period. Everyone needs to let it go, it's over.

Steve, answer me, what have you done besides run your mouth lately? Have you ever done anything for a Cherokee?

VERDIE TRIPLETT, FORT COFFEE,OKLAHOMA (8/10/2007 10:25:12 AM)

I am a democrat and have always voted democrat,but since mr. Coburn has taken the right stance on this issue,I am going to switch and vote republican for Mr. coburn.I will never vote for any democrat that didn't speak out against the cherokee nation and the other slave holding tribes--choctaw,creek,chickasaw and seminole so called nations.

The cherokee so called nation is not paying the freedmen anything.The freedmen are paying the cherokees with federal tax dollars to descriminate against them.No other american citizen is required to pay for their own mistreatment.It is simple, if you former slave holding tribes do not honor the treaty,stop taking our tax dollars and stop profiting from the ills of our american citizens--casinos and smoke shops.Pay taxes like all other americans and maybe dissolve this crazy sorereignty all together.

John Cornsilk, Thalequah (8/10/2007 10:48:07 AM)

Yes Rachel Steve has done things for the Cherokee people, an continues, even with his posting to you trying to convert your complete ignorance in to some worthwhile knowledge of which you babble, though I think he may be whistling dixie, usually racist dunderheads have no compunction to get over the defected addlebrain syndrome! Pitiful too, all humans should be able to shuck this addleditis.

And if you are serious about getting over the dumbness on the Citizenship of the Cherokee simply go to www cornsilks com and read every document there then you will be qualified to challenge Steve, you could even square away Chief Smith, infact you would just be so knowledgable your friends would be completely agast!

Rachel, Tulsa (8/10/2007 11:03:57 AM)

Cornsilks is a joke. Five people arguing with each other. If anyone can understand that babbling, they need more help than the Cherokee Nation.

Give it up. Treaties never remember. They give and take til they fall apart.

David Cornsilk, Tulsa (8/10/2007 11:13:57 AM)

I have to laugh at all of these folks who say "stay out of Indian business!" What do they think or understand about the government to government relationship between the Cherokee Nation (Indian tribes) and the United States? NOTHING. The sovereignty of the Cherokee Nation is exercised at the sufferance of the state of Oklahoma and the United States. It is the United States that protects the exercise of whatever sovereignty our tribal governments have left. Without the protection of the United States, could the Cherokee Nation withstand the onslaught of attacks by the state of Oklahoma? The answer is found in our own history. NO. The Cherokee Nation folded like a deck of cards in the face of attacks by the state of Georgia in 1830-38. Andrew Jackson and his successor Martin Van Buren refused to help or protect the Cherokees from the hostile states culminating in our ouster from our ancient and beloved homeland. Every tribe is different and the relationship between them and the U.S. was forged under different circumstances and historical events. The Cherokee Nation's relationship was forged in WAR. We took up arms against the United States during the U.S. Civil War. Restoration of our federal/tribal relationship came in the form of a treaty known today as the Treaty of 1866. In that Treaty we agreed to take as equals (that means citizens folks) the free blacks (persons of negro and Cherokee blood) and former slaves. Treaties are to be interpreted according to how the Indians would have understood them AT THE TIME THEY WERE SIGNED! Every shred of evidence created by the Cherokees themselves in the post Civil War era and right up to the Dawes enrollment proves that the Cherokee of old believed that the Freedmen had become CITIZENS. Thus, if the federal recognition of the Cherokee Nation remains valid, and that recognition originates with the Treaty of 1866, then the provisions of that Treaty remain valid. That means that there is a contract and a contract is between two parties who have a right to enforce it. Should one party abrogate the agreement, the other party has the right and some might say the obligation to react accordingly. This gives the United States the RIGHT and obligation to not only protect its own interests in the Treaty, but to fulfil its obligations to protect the Cherokee people impacted by the Treaty. Thus, the U.S. has the obligation to get involved in this issue and I welcome Senator Coburn's involvement. He should introduce a twin bill in the Senate that mirrors the Watson Bill.

VERDIE TRIPLETT, FORT COFFEE,OKLAHOMA (8/10/2007 11:24:03 AM)

Blood was not an issue when slaves were on the auction blocks being bought and sold as animals,so why is blood an issue today.It was financial feasible back then to implement slavery when blood was not a requirement,but now it is financial feasible,because of greed,to utilize the "by Blood" requirement of today.The five slave holding tribes should stop using this "by Blood" as a reason to descriminate against their black indian citizens.Blood was not an issue prior to 1866,so stop using it now.

Robin Smith, Laguna Beach CA (8/10/2007 11:39:50 AM)

Rachel are you really an idiot or do you just play one on a web post? It is people like you and Mike Graham that are giving the Cherokee people a bad reputation. The CNO government is in shambles. We have a Chief who will be in office for 3 terms, Tribal Councilors who are in his back pocket and don't question any of the things he does like veto a swimming pool for the Boys and Girls club. Money that was already allocated just for this purpose. Our Cherokee children are not offered any assistance for back to school as far as school supplies. We have over 20% of Cherokees living in poverty and some don't have running water or electricty and don't have enough food to eat. Diabetes is running rampant and the health care is declining. I worry about our Elders suffering through this summer with no air conditioning and not even electicity to run a fan. The Freedmen are citizens of the CNO just like I am. People with their racists views just need to get over it and accept that fact so we can move on. Put all that energy you are wasting on hate to good use and start finding ways to help our Cherokee people. Winter will be here and I worry about those Elders who if they survive the summer heat, will survive the winter chill with no heating source. It is 2007 and people still don't have water in their houses.

Steve, Miami (8/10/2007 11:39:46 AM)

Rachel, Tsalgi tsiwoni? What is the name of the book I said I'm writing about Chad? Let me ask you what you've done for the Cherokees besides run your mouth? I have been in constant contact with congressmen, tribal leaders, councilors and fellow tribal members. I have donated to feed the Delaware elders who's federal funding for their meals was cut by Chad Smith, I have donated to NARF, although you probably don't know what that is and many other things I don't have room to list here. So what makes you Cherokee Rachel? Or Native? Do you have a tribal card or what? Tell me, and tell me what you have done for the Cherokees or whatever tribe you might belong to. I already know you are trying to speak for the tribe saying "We" don't want the freedmen as members. How do you know what the tribal members want? What Indian community are ya from Rachel?

Robert, Claremore (8/10/2007 11:54:12 AM)

Tom Coburn is doing the right thing. I would like to know where all the Casino profits are going because they are not going to the people.

David Cornsilk, Tulsa (8/10/2007 12:09:50 PM)

Chad Smith and his followers, as well as those Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma (CNO) citizens have invited scrutiny of the tribal policy of allowing thin-blooded individuals to call themselves "Indians." Most of the CNO membership is comprised of white people with thin strains of Cherokee blood ancestry. The two most common degrees of blood among the CNO members is 1/16 and 1/32. The lowest degree of blood in the CNO is 1/4096! With about 270,000 tribal members, statistics show that over 90 percent of those members are less than 1/4 Cherokee Indian blood ancestry. In fact, a majority of the higher degree of blood Cherokees have abandoned the CNO in favor of membership in the United Keetoowah Band, which requires 1/4 Cherokee blood for membership. A cursory review of the Dawes enrollment record of the Freedmen shows that most of them have as much or more Cherokee blood ancestry than most of those who seek their removal. This struggle is a bunch of white people telling a bunch of black people they can't claim their Cherokee heritage. Its nothing new though. The racist Dawes Commission refused to permit the Indian blood of Freedmen to be recorded on the roll. If the Cherokees desire an "all Indian tribe" then let's get with it! There is no way that someone who is less than 1/4 Indian is really an Indian except for the fact that he/she is a member of a tribe. With this new thrust for defining who is and who is not Indian by disenrollment, perhaps it time for Senator Coburn and others to address the issue head on. Let me quote from Circe Sturm's 2004 book "Blood Politics, Race, Culture and Identity in the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma" Chapter 7 page 200: "Yet the group with the most at stake in this contest is not the freedmen but the citizens of the Cherokee Nation, who shape their own fate as they decide the freedmen's. If they formally choose to exclude the freedmen, then their own blood policies might be turned against them at some future date, giving the Cherokee Nation a painful lesson in racial politics - the same one they have been teaching the freedmen for over a century."

Take heed thin bloods, you have invited this scrutiny of Indian identity, you shall reep what you sew.

Steve, Miami (8/10/2007 12:38:48 PM)

Chad Smith is supposed to be a lawyer. He knows the Seminoles lost their federal funding after they tried to do the same thing to their freedmen. Seminole Nation to this day still cannot get all their funding back.

Now, tell me how smart is a lawyer who knows Indian law and is a chief to repeat what he saw ruin another tribe's funding?