JW, (9/28/2007 7:41:50 AM)

Sexual discrimination just doesn't fly!

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I'll be here all night.

JR, Tulsa (9/28/2007 7:44:02 AM)

So what's the ratio of QUALIFIED male to female flight instructors in the geographic area of Spartan? What's to keep other female instructors from suing because Shine was the only one hired at Spartan. It goes on and on. . .

Chris, Tulsa (9/28/2007 8:19:00 AM)

They should sue. They should close the place down.

KATIE, tulsa (9/28/2007 8:50:57 AM)

WOMEN MIGHT AS WELL GIVE IT UP, THERE IS JUST SOME PLACES, SHE SHOULDN'T BE.IF THE WOMAN WOULD STICK TO FEMALE DESIGNED ROLES, I DON'T THINK THIS COUNTRY WOULD BE IN THE SHAPE ITS IN.I THINK IT'S PURE STUPIDITY FOR THE MAN TO SIT AT HOME UNEMPLOYEED, WHILE THE WOMAN BRINGS HOME THE BREAD.

GOD DIDN'T INTEND FOR WOMAN TO TAKE THE MALES ROLE IN THE WORLD.ALL WOMAN ARE DOING IS MAKING THE MALE LAZIER THAN HE ALREADY IS.DOES THE FEMALE COME HOME, GRAB A BEER, SIT IN THE RECLINER AND WATCH TV TILL BEDTIME?I DOUBT IT.SHE COMES HOME,COOKS,CLEANS,DOES LAUNDRY,RUN THE KIDS,GET THEM READY FOR BED,HANDLES DISCIPLINARY DETAILS,ETC ETC....

I UNDERSTAND THERE ARE WOMEN THAT HAVE TO WORK, ONCE AGAIN BECAUSE THE MAN RUNS OFF AND LEAVES HER WTIH ALL THE RESPONSIBLTY TO TAKE CARE OFF, AND MY HAT IS OFF TO YOU, I DON'T THINK I COULD DO IT.

SO LET THE MAN HAVE HIS JOB AND YOU STAY HOME,ENJOY THE FRUITS OF HIS LABOR, THAT WOULD CERTAINLY DO AWAY WITH A LOT OF DAY CARE AND BABYSITTER ABUSE AND JUVENILES RUNNING THE STREET. I KNOW I STRAYED SOME, BUT THIS IS GETTING OUT OF HAND. I KNOW THAT WOMEN IN THE WORKPLACE ARE THE RESULT OF MANY DIVORCES,I DON'T CARE IF YOU DON'T MAKE THE FIRST MOVE, THERE ARE FEW MEN WHO CAN KEEP THEIR PANTS ZIPPED WITH WOMEN ALL AROUND THEM.

Grama, Jenks, OK (9/28/2007 9:11:45 AM)

Wohhh Katie, You have to look at each situation individually. We don't know anything about this womans situation. She could be a struggling single mom or just single and trying to make a living doing what she enjoys.

Ted, BA (9/28/2007 9:43:34 AM)

Katie, I cannot believe your screaming rant (all caps) about the role of women and the stereotypical casting of lazy men. I am 69 years old and have always worked since I was a teen ager and supported my "stay at home" home making wife, plus I am a licensed instrument rated pilot. Some of the finest pilots and instructors I have known are women. You are showing more gender bias and pure stupidity than anything I have read in a long time.

A Tulsan, Tulsa (9/28/2007 10:17:19 AM)

#4...Katie...wow. I haven't seen so many biased opinions in one paragraph in a long time. It would be interesting to hear the debate between you and presidential candidate Clinton. In fact, I'm sure that many successful women would have some interesting things to tell you. I myself am male, don't drink unless it's social, my boss is FEMALE, and work around many successful women. Wow. Can't believe you said all that.

sgrizzle, (9/28/2007 10:47:51 AM)

There were 5 female and 60 male instructors. The ratio seems about right considering the number of male to female pilots.

They seem to be comparing apples to orange and proclaiming "it's all fruit!" What were the monetary damages of her accident compared to others? What was the cause? What was the disagreement about? How did she handle it?

Just because you've worked somewhere a long time doesn't mean you're not a bad employee.

Sarah Munson, Tulsa (9/28/2007 10:48:49 AM)

Go JC! Associated press even... hope this gets the...weaknesses...of Spartan some long needed attention. Good Luck with the suit.

Elizabeth, Tulsa (9/28/2007 10:57:19 AM)

Lots of men like her supervisor won't discuss things on an equal basis with women at work, whereas they do with men. They expect women always to defer to men, and take offense if she doesn't. Probably there were other incidents in the workplace or other evidence that isn't in the article. The EEOC doesn't weigh in on these gender things often, the evidence has to be pretty blatant.

C C, Broken Arrow (9/28/2007 11:00:08 AM)

Is it necessary to shut the whole place down? Fire the insecure male employees who caused this to happen, and do whatever is necessary to compensate Ms. Shine for her losses. Good luck, Ma'am

Susan, Sapulpa (9/28/2007 11:01:59 AM)

Katie (or anyone else),

Can you please tell me what a "female designed role" is??! Katie, girl, you need to get a grip or see a therapist. You have some serious male/female issues.

BIll Hader, Jenks (9/28/2007 11:05:53 AM)

KATY... If a person had your train of thought then YOU SHOULD SHUT UP WOMEN have NO opinion that matters or count, this is a mans issue... I quess your the exception. You give a bad name to womens rights on anything. WE are ALL EQUAL. well except for you katy

Ralph, Tulsa (9/28/2007 11:29:00 AM)

(FOR KATIE ONLY)

KATIE! WOULD YOU PLEASE SHUT THE HELL UP. IF YOU DON'T UNDERSTAND THE ISSUE KEEP YOUR YAPPING MOUTH SHUT. THIS HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH FEMALE DESIGNED ROLES, RATHER IT IS AN ISSUE CONCERNING DISCRIMINATION IN THE WORK PLACE. YOU CLAIMED "IF THE WOMAN WOULD STICK TO FEMALE DESIGNED ROLES, I DON'T THINK THIS COUNTRY WOULD BE IN THE SHAPE ITS IN." ARE YOU A MUSLIM? THIS IS AMERICA, WOMEN HAVE THE RIGHT TO WORK AND HOLD THE SAME POSITIONS AS MEN WITHOUT BEING DISCRIMINATED AGAINST. I CAN SEE THAT YOU ARE UNEDUCATED THEREFORE, I WON'T WASTE MY TIME ON YOU

GOSH! YOU'RE SUCH AN IDIOT!

Gary, Suwon, South Kora (9/28/2007 11:54:01 AM)

Katy has the reationary attitude believing that men are incapable of free will not to attack a woman. She is biased and sexist to both gender. She gives conservatives a bad name. Spartan has always been known to being a very sexist place to work at being that it is a male dominated industry. The mile high club is still very popular there also. Their believe is it has to be done with the PIC.

brent, tulsa (9/28/2007 12:06:04 PM)

I don't think Katie is trying to take the equal right away from women. Yes, a woman is just as equal as her counterpart, but it should be the mans responiblity to make a decent income to provide for his family. The women should have the right to work anywhere as long as she wants. It shouldn't be a have to support the family issue. I think there are gender roles adapted(not to say a woman can't do as good as any man)because I believe a woman can do anything and possibly sometimes better than male.

Its not the older generations that are at fault here,its the young ones coming up that thinks someone owes them something for nothing(not all,but alot)...once again, this is totally off the orginal issue at hand..discrimanation!

DavidS, Tulsa (9/28/2007 12:08:06 PM)

If there is any gay male instructors would that not change the ratio also? There might be more female instructors than one thinks or knows of.. ;)

Then again what is the other rarios there

TICKED OFF TERI!, TULSA (9/28/2007 12:18:27 PM)

KATIE, YOU'RE KIDDING, RIGHT? IT'S IDIOTS LIKE YOU THAT NECESSITATE THE NEED FOR THE EEOC. MAYBE THIS POOR WOMAN HAD A BOSS LIKE YOU! WHY SHOULD A QUALIFIED WOMAN BE LOCKED OUT OF A JOB THAT SHE WANTS TO DO JUST BECAUSE SOME MORON LIKE YOU THINKS SHE SHOULDN'T DO IT? SHOULDN'T THAT BE HER CHOICE, AND NOT YOURS? I CAN THINK OF A FEW FEMALE DESIGNED ROLES THAT WOULD BE PERFECT FOR SOMEONE WITH YOUR LIMITED INTELLECT. HOPEFULLY YOU ARE THE LAST OF YOUR SPECIES...

SW, Tulsa (9/28/2007 12:23:47 PM)

Wow, I'm sure glad Amelia Earhart didn't have this attitude or the countless women pilots after her. Katie, you sound a little pissed off at maybe your own situation.

Fulene, Skiatook (9/28/2007 1:15:43 PM)

YOU GO Ms. Shine, and Good Luck!!Do this for all women who have suffered in the workplace. I was suddenly grabbed and groped by an old geezer who was my boss in an office, with no witnesses. I pushed him away, but was polite to him and got away. I reported it to the office manager who said "I didn't know the old boy had it in him HAHAHA"

I was then terminated the next day! This was way back in 1978 when women's rights in the workplace were just beginning to get attention, but NOT MUCH! Lawyers (men) advised me to "Forget it", that I had no recourse, that a judge would not be sympathetic to me, so I just had to suffer the humiliation and lose my job too!! Things have changed since then!!AMEN!

Bill, Tulsa (9/28/2007 1:55:39 PM)

It seems as if they hired 4 other women, they were not discriminating. If she would have been the only women she might have a point. Some women just always want to hollar discrimination just because they get fired. Sounds like she deserved it.

Steve, Tulsa (9/28/2007 6:52:45 PM)

I went to Spartan and JC Shine is my favorite teacher there. She is tough as nails and actually expects people to perform above and beyond.

The management at Spartan is flaky. They complained that I would be too detailed while preflighting airplanes and made the false claim on how well they took care of their fleet.

I would suspect JC is in the right here.

Miffed, Mounds (9/28/2007 8:23:20 PM)

Katy should also understand that employers don't pay men as much as they are worth. My husband has been in the same field for over 15 years and still doesn't make enough money to support a family of four. We tried, but I ws back in the workforce within 6 months. From what I've heard about Spartan, it's not the kind of institution I would want to be affiliated with anyway. Katy, if you are so unhappy with your situation, then change it. If you don't want to change it, then that's your choice. Life is made up of choices, apparently, you haven't made the right ones. You are sooo unhappy. As for JC, you go girl!!! This ain't the 70's anymore! Thank God for the EEOC. And thak GOD women have more CHOICES today than 20 years ago.

Former Black Cat, (10/1/2007 6:37:49 PM)

I had the privilege of being a student of, working along side, and knowing Ms. Shine personally. Not only is it accurate to assert that the EEOC does not levy charges against a company without SUBSTANTIAL evidence of discrimination (see previous posts), but also having personal knowledge of the details, I am certain that discriminatory and disproportionate discipline was applied. In fact, during my time at Spartan, a few male instructors had “incidents” (of equal cost), and all of them were allowed to continue their employment. Regardless of the outcome of the case, I applaud Ms. Shine for the courage to pursue this issue in an effort to continue bringing to the forefront discrimination against any group. Kudos Ms. Shine – another lesson well taught!

C. David Buchanan, Owasso, Oklahoma (10/3/2007 11:01:57 AM)

I am not a Spartan Flight Student or a Spartan Employee. I am a Tulsa area aviation professional with over 30 years experience in the industry. I want to set aside the question of gender a moment and ask two rhetorical questions.

A) What would you expect the employment status of a flight instructor to be after the following occurrences? Recurring disagreements with the school’s chief pilot in which the instructor advocated deviation from FAA approved policies and procedures (for the benefit of students); followed by the instructor allowing a student to land gear up. (Note: not that it should matter, the purpose of the flight was specifically training flight procedures and skills relative to retractable gear operation).

B) What would be your legal action be toward a flight School school, if your loved one were seriously harmed due to the negligence of their employee, an instructor who, upon review was found to have the documented history above.

For me there is no gender based issue here. There would be a significant moral, ethical, and ultimately legal issue if a school ever retained any instructor with this history. This history will not allow an individual to obtain a job as a pilot. Consequently there is little if any boldness in pressing this action. There is also no cost to the one individual who stands to gain. All the cost – all of them the EEOC’s and those of the school, ultimately come back to you and me. The EEOC’s through our taxies. The school’s though the ever increasing cost of air transportation. Someone will “win” in court. For you and me this is LOSE – LOSE and we have no choice in the matter.