Those With Ears To Hear, (10/13/2007 1:59:33 AM)

"Such fools, those with an Absolam spirit (I can do it better.) A Dr. does not intentionally kill the patient, while removing cancer. For those who think they have seen a Saul, & have not treated him as David did, a curse will be upon them, from which they shall never recover".

Alumni, Tulsa (10/13/2007 2:01:10 AM)

Ricahard Roberts said he had his sister-in-law, Stephanie Cantees, make a list of rumors. gossip, etc. Well, these "rumors" are very detailed and specific. Since when does the Bible teach that a "minister" should be so interested in "rumors" and gossip ???

Steve Gardner, Tulsa (10/13/2007 2:14:12 AM)

Hello from California. My mom, who during my childhood donated money to Oral Roberts' organization, wanted me to go to ORU. My senior year in high school I went to the university for a weekend trip designed to enlist potential students. I had qualified for scholarships at ORU as well as OU, OSU, NEO and NSU. As a seventeen-year-old visitor to the campus I was sexually propositioned by someone of the same sex as an option to attending a Saturday morning prayer session. Consequentially I chose another school with my virginity intact. I have no knowledge to comment on whether the current actions of school administrators are monetarily legal. I do want to state however that in regard to the other recent unsubstantiated allegations (even though these allegations are heterosexual rather than homosexual) the most important word is: underage.

Jack Golan, Sacramento, CA (10/13/2007 2:35:26 AM)

You'd think that folks steeped in miracles -- 900-foot Jesuses, people raised from the dead, words of knowledge about people's ailments being healed -- would have developed a basic fear of God somewhere along the line. I mean, if all the pentecostal hocus pocus is real and you're regularly exercising it, wouldn't you be absolutely panicked that that same power would be used to expose your own sins?

Frankly, if the charges are true, we're way beyond human frailties and failures. We're deep in reprobate territory. You don't presume to be telling people what God is saying while you're spending the night with a teenage "friend" unless your conscience has been hardened. Every word spoken, allegedly in God's name, is proven to be blasphemy by your actions and persistent secret sin. Further, you can't proceed along this path unless you've determined God can't stop you and you don't care what he thinks.

There is no fear of God here.

Betty Lou, (10/13/2007 2:48:12 AM)

Everyone should wait and see. The truth will come out. Let us all hold judgement until then.

cindy, (10/13/2007 2:54:11 AM)

Hi.....why not start checking Victory Christian School records about the students LR & RR counseled? They should have transcripts of students that attended ORU during their high school years. And I am not talking about the con-current students. I am talking about students that were either friends of the Roberts daughters or by graduation dates....2005, 2006, 2007. And more than likely alot of the students did not continue and graduate from VCS. Maybe check their 9th/10th/ & 11th grade years.

ona, Tulsa (10/13/2007 3:54:54 AM)

It all stinks! Billy Joe back in favor? I wonder why? So, he will not talk! IRS needs to close both schools!

Chris , Pasadena (10/13/2007 4:34:38 AM)

Where are the transcripts of these late night text messages? EVERYTHING we do today leaves a trail somewhere, SURELY the cell phone company has a record of these calls, times and content?

File a freedom of information act if need be.

There just has to be trail, In a world where no ONE has any freedoms and the few we have are in danger, I would be surprised if these are protected somehow?

Also if you are innocent Lindsey, give APPROVAL to the phone company to release ALL the transcipts of the calls?

Now we hear there are pictures of her at night, guys staying over with her at nights in guest houses.. Ministry happens like this sometimes its all possible, maybe she is MOTHERING these young people, VS MUGGING Them too early to judge..

Where is the testimonials from the underage students.. How about this young guy from the house and car? What does he have to say?

The transcripts would go a long way iMHO to support or defend Lindsey. so just Release them, willingly

I am an X ORU student that has another bombshell to potentially drop onto the world, something that I believe happened back in 90-92 during a time of great duress on ORU which if I can confirm it was true, (and I will) will be another potentially HUGE problem for ORU.

Back when I was there I took the high road and didnt persue anything about this, even though I suspected what a top professor told me about this situation was indeed true, how he found out there was some mis-appropriating of student's loans..

I feel to this day i was wronged and defrauded by the University concerning the use of my Student Loans and it caused great stress on me while I attended there...finally due to attending several classes where there was not enough money available from the university to buy BOOKS, I finally left.

I have no doubts about the financial side of this story, and or the political involvement. This thing is going to grow into a monster as time goes by, Richard and Lindsey will most likely WISH they had stepped down if even HALF of this stuff ends up being true.

IMHO the jury is still out, we dont know enough of the facts to make a real judgement on the situation..however, as more comes out the truth will be known either way.

Unfortunately from my short experience I get the feeling most of the allegations are going to end up being true.

c, (10/13/2007 4:53:12 AM)

Hi Ona,

I do not think the schools should be shut down, but under new leadership. For ORU NO family members, and for VCS NO family members. I know, Billy Joe does not run the school on paper.....but get real, when BJD says to do something, Demuth-VCS his daughter Tiffany teaches computer at VCS, VBI-Henshaw, Camp Victory-?, 24/7-BJD's 2nd daughter & husband...opps....they let go- fired someone the teenagers loved and respected & replace with a BJD clone Adam Sanders, Sanders mom is now princpal at VCS, and let's not forget their oldest daughter Sarah and her husband Caleb they now run some department, and of course their oldest son John now coaches high school football, and last but not least, their youngest son Paul..has a band for 24/7 & College.....Spanich-Athletic Director(he is one rude SOB, he thinks he is Gods gift) Abusive man to students, staff and his own wife. His 2 daughters teach there. I could go on, and on, and on. VCS is like ORU....if you have money, you are treated different. Check it out, Mows, Fenimore, Henshaw, Lewandowski, Stewart, Morrow, Bersin, Lee, Hill, Hickerson, Klien, Williams, and many more families. Just check it out!!!!!

Ralph Casteel, Tulsa,Ok (10/13/2007 5:31:57 AM)

The Lawsuit speaks volumes about the character (or lack thereof) of John Swails,Tim Brooker and Paulita Brooker,not to mention Gary Richardson who appears to have a vendetta against Televangelists!

NO PRACTICING CHRISTIAN would file such a suit containing a " report " that according to Richardson " does not have to be true in order to be a viable part of the Lawsuit".

God have Mercy on the Attorneys and the ex-professors IF their allegations concerning the Roberts are as preposterous as they(the Allegations) appear to be!

Do the Ex-Professors and Richardson have no regard for Scripture's teachings concerning these things?? Do they not retain a shred of common human decency?? The TRUTH shall prevail!

art, (10/13/2007 6:34:51 AM)

Ralph, you don't get it.

The point is that they were allegedly dismissed for the act of providing the report to the regents.

The content is irrelevant (although VERY interesting if indeed only partially true).

Tired of excuses, (10/13/2007 6:35:20 AM)

These allegations have nothing to do with whether you’re a Christian, read the bible or anything thing else but speaking out. They, the professors, actually do have a great sense of common decency to bring these issues out. It is there responsibility and I do applaud them for doing so. The Roberts and the university are not above the law! They will have their day in court.

Carl Robbins, San Jose (10/13/2007 6:36:47 AM)

TIP OF THE ICEBERG

-- commentary/opinion from outside the evangelical"bubble."

READ POST 6 above, again. The details and facts are beginning to come out. Names, events, details. That's what happens when long-covered up wrongs start coming out.

Hunker down, expect an AVALANCHE of more. it only gets worse as people realize they can share what they've seen and known.

ORU is the religious ENRON of our day -- corruption at the top until the whole house of cards came falling down around those who invested their time, lives and careers -- only to be forever tainted as an "ENRON" person.

I know. It happened to my grandson way down the ranks of faithful employees.

In the "real" world outside the evangelical "bubble"--the world of employers and HR people -- this will leave any document bearing the name Oral Roberts -- be it resume or degree -- tainted, just as ENRON left many fine employees tainted long after the wheels of justice took the perpetrators away.

Fair? No. Reality? Yes.

ENRON/ORU --- means much the same in the eyes of millions of Americans -- and the story has just started to come out.

Judy Ipock, Okemahl (10/13/2007 6:53:12 AM)

Praise the Lord, why are people so surprised when sin is exposed. The Bible says judgement will begin in the house of the Lord. We can trust our God to take care of us, but we all have to be willing to be under the microscope. The world needs to see truth and all things that are being done in Jesus name should be judged. If the parties are innocent they have nothing to worry about, Every weapon formed against us will not prosper. If they are guilty they have a lot to worry about, every thing that can be shaken will be. We have to be an open vessel and I welcome inspection of my life. We can be pure because of the blood of our precious Jesus but only if we live according to his word. May God be glorified in all the situations at hand and may His will be done in all their lives. Thank you God that you will not let anyone decieve you.

jw, (10/13/2007 7:02:58 AM)

Can we assume the Tulsa Police are on top of this? Sure hate the Roberts go to the pen, but hey, we got laws.

Danny, Smyrna (10/13/2007 7:17:07 AM)

1. 10/13/2007 1:59:33 AM, Those With Ears To Hear,

"Such fools, those with an Absolam spirit (I can do it better.) A Dr. does not intentionally kill the patient, while removing cancer. For those who think they have seen a Saul, & have not treated him as David did, a curse will be upon them, from which they shall never recover".

WHAT KIND OF BABEL IS THIS?! SOUNDS LIKE THE RANTINGS OF A HOMELESS PERSON.

Dear Stupid, (10/13/2007 7:17:57 AM)

The report is part of the lawsuit because Swails in particular got the axe 2 days after he brought the report to the attention of the board.

It doesn't matter if the allegations in the report are true or not (though you're an idiot if you think they aren't, and you'll soon see that. People know this crap). What matters is that they fired him because he brought it to their attention. That's the basis for his wrongful termination claim. Swails didn't steal the report, didn't write the report, and did't take the report to anyone but the right peope. And morons, THIS IS IN COURT BECAUSE TAKING IT TO THE BOARD GOT HIM FIRED. THERE ARE LAWS AGAINST THAT. I'm sick to death of this "real christians would never file this suit." BS. If the Roberts were real christians THIS NEVER WOULD'VE HAPPENED.

And yes. The 26 year employee mentioned in the suit DID in fact get fired days after the suit was filed.

Q, (10/13/2007 7:28:57 AM)

Roberts was to appear on Fox and Friends this morning but canceled in light of the new allegations. Co-host, Kelly Wright, is a graduate of ORU and spoke candidly about the situation neither defending or attacking Roberts. He did go on to mention all the great accomplishments of ORU graduates and said that there is much concern amongst all the alumni about this current situation. He said he thinks the University will survive but acknowledges that many alumni believe the Roberts should step aside, even if temporarily, while the allegations are litigated.

Former Student, Dallas (10/13/2007 7:39:58 AM)

If these allegations were at least partially written by Stephanie Cantees, the sister-in-law of ORU President Richard Roberts, we should hear her explanation.

Why such extreme allegations in an internal document?

Was this some type of an internal investigation?

Why is it that Richard and Lindsay are answering questions, but we have not heard from Stephanie Cantees?

Is it Cantese or Cantees? I see her last name spelled both ways?

With the new allegations it is time we hear from Stephanie Cantees. I think it would be helpful in order to substantiate the University's defense.

Former ORU Student, Tulsa (10/13/2007 7:50:55 AM)

IF you look at an iceberg, even if it is large coming out of the water, keep in mind that it is only the tip of the iceberg and that the vast expanse of the iceberg is still yet unseen. This is the same with the current suit. The vast expanse of this ORU iceberg is yet to come forth. Now people will talk freely. THe Judgement at the House of God has begun. ORU is not the only one, there are others going to come forth. Sin is sin. Whereever sin lies, let it be exposed if there is no true repentence.

But all of you keep this in mind, check your own heart out before you start looking for logs. The truth is coming forth and it shall come forth.

We need to revisit sin and bring the dealing with sin back into the church. That is what God is doing here, whereever the sin lies, whoever it lies with and however the sin got there, the rug is being peeled back and there is a huge stink under the rug..........

Bob Linehart, Alum '83, (10/13/2007 8:22:01 AM)

I believe Kelly Wright attended ORU, but graduated elsewhere.

Many evangelists have been accused and caught in corrupt behavior, only to deny it until irrefutable evidence is brought before them. Then of course, they publicly admit their sin and redemption while trying to hold onto their ruined evangelistic associations. Access to wealth with limited accountability and the constant praise of the camera and the congregation is a powerful temptation to one's ego.

The problem here is that Richard, whether he is guilty of these accusations or not, is ruining the reputation of our alma mater. Those of us who graduated many years ago and have already made our reputations in our chosen fields will not be negatively affected, much to the disappointment of Carl Robbins and a few of the others who seem so excited about this mess. But it will negatively impact new grads and those considering ORU as a college choice.

Why do the Roberts have to run this University like a family business? The answer unfortunately is they have turned it into a family business - no accountability, but to themselves. The board of regents is a handpicked group of cronies, ministers, and evangelists. 8 of the 10 regents who sit on the executive committee are ministers and evangelists. How impartial do you think they are going to be? The objective thing to do here is to ask Richard to temporarily step down for six months while the issues are investigated.

Most of us who attended or graduated from ORU can tell many stories of Richard's arrogance. It would be great to find Richard and the "first lady" some other grand title, move them to a plush office somewhere in Tulsa, or let them continue to run OREA. But somebody else needs to run the school - someone with unquestionable integrity, a humble personality, and the intellectual qualifications to be President of a University. There are many people capable of being President of this school . . . without the last name of Roberts.

While building the University may have been God's plan and surely there have been great things done for the kingdom of God as a result of ORU's creation, years of being unaccountable for finances and administrative behavior have taken their toll. I think it is entirely possible to have a great University with a Christian world view, accomplishing many great things for the kingdom of Christ, without Richard Roberts and his pompous family as its President. And yes, the name of the school should continue to be Oral Roberts University.

Carl Robbins, San Jose (10/13/2007 8:31:41 AM)

IMAGES

Images are powerful. A religious TV fraudster -- Jim Bakker -- lost his donor base --- not because of misuse of donors' millions.

Donors didn't get that. It was, to them, an attack of the devil. Jim said so.

But when they saw his air conditioned dog house, that was another story. They could relate to that. Did that make them mad!

The image of that air conditioned dog house did it. Donors were more outraged by that than all the cumulative fraud put together

How would the ORU / ORM donors react to seeing photos of Mrs ORU -- the first lady --having a smoke with an underaged boy?

Those photos exist, as the complaint states, and no doubt will see the light of day.

If you're lashing yourself to the deck of the SS ORU, you might want to think twice.

Just an opinion from outside the evangelical bubble -- otherwise known as the "real" world.

Ralph Casteel, Tulsa,Ok (10/13/2007 8:48:19 AM)

#23 "CARL ROBBINS" SO, You KNOW that the "photos exist" in fact, YOU have seen them,Right?

That Being the case, why don't you have them published?

Put up or Shut up.

Why are You an Enemy of the Cross of Christ?

ss, oklahoma (10/13/2007 8:58:02 AM)

QUESTION: WHO, do you think, would be PHOTOGRAPHING LR’s nighttime escapades, and WHY??!! This is the craziest stuff ever.

Ralph Casteel, Tulsa,Ok (10/13/2007 9:03:42 AM)

#18 I am sorry for you that your parents named you"Dear Stupid"( although,judging just from this your, I must admit that it seems to be extremely accurate )

Assuming you were addressing me in post #18 I wrote the statment, "PRACTICING CHRISTIANS would never have filed this suit - NOT "REAL Christians....."

Should one assume that You are neither?

"Real" Christians make all kinds of mistakes and commit grievious sins- that's why we needed a Savior in the first place.

Practicing Christians ( who Worship, Pray,Serve, evangelize and Meditate in the WORD of God on a regular basis are not likely to willfully violate a clear Teaching of the New Testament as Swails , Brooker and Brooker did.