Fifty Dollar Fine, (10/16/2007 1:49:52 AM)

I keep saying that after the 16 year old boys, Bahamas trips, Chico's spending sprees and 2K sq ft closets ("closets" - what an apt metaphor for ORU), this is the real story.

Carl Robbins, San Jose (10/16/2007 2:49:01 AM)

The IRS and the PIGGY BANK MENTALITY at ORU/ORM

The political issue is a hotbutton, but the use of tax exempt donations as a personal piggy bank is another.

Huge sums spent for personal clothing and charged to ORU as org expenses after one-time use on TV is another area of extreme abuse.

A clothes "closet" of 2,000 sq feet -- as large a most houses -- confirms this practice is alive and well.

Flimsy justifications for this raid on tax exempt income, such as one-time TV use and

9 family guests as passengers on a private jet with one official traveler is another.

Even members of congress have to pay their share or private jet travel by paying first-class equivalent amounts.

How much more so for non-profit organizations?

TWO ISSUES:

Not only do such tricky transactions populate the ORU-ORM -- Roberts family accounts, regardless of reported shredding of documents, but they raise the issue of taxes due on unreported income.

Perhaps far more than moral issues, about which evangelicals can argue ceaselessly, the issues of the "piggy bank" mentality will determine the outcome of this sordid story.

Therein lies the iceberg the SS ORU/ORM is steaming towards

Carl Robbins, San Jose (10/16/2007 2:54:10 AM)

AIR CONDITIONED DOG HOUSE AND 2,000 SQ. FOOT CLOSETS.

Jim Bakker's donors stuck with him until they heard about his air conditioned doghouse.

They could relate to that.

The equivalent here is the 2,000 sq foot closet.

Quite apart from substantive issues in my last post, this is the image issue that summarizes it all.

Tony G., (10/16/2007 6:18:45 AM)

The more they dig, it seems, the worse for Richard.

I do hope they don't drag this on for years.

Barbara, Houston (10/16/2007 7:23:43 AM)

It's all so very interesting, how this "political" disagreement (how to, or whether or not to, participate in the Tulsa Mayor race) not being handled in love, rather vengefully, led to the disclosure of Stephanie's draft report.

Frustrated , (10/16/2007 7:44:58 AM)

#5 "It's all so very interesting, how this "political" disagreement (how to, or whether or not to, participate in the Tulsa Mayor race) not being handled in love"

It's not a "political disagreement", dear. It's a matter of an employer forcing an employee to do something ILLEGAL, and the employee's job was at stake. That's EXTORTION. What has that to do with love? What kind of a parent would I be if I forced my children to steal from the store or they would have no home to live in? That's worse than unloving...

Joe-Allen Doty, Tulsa, Oklahoma (10/16/2007 7:45:30 AM)

When Richard Roberts publicly endorsed mayoral candidate Randi Miller at a press conference, he made sure that it was known that he was the president of ORU.

. . . The head of any non-profit institution or religious organization, which includes churches, may as a private citizen, without using his or her position title may say off the cuff that he or she is going to vote for a certain candidate.

. . . I am reminded of the public forum hearings that were held by the City of Tulsa's Human Rights Commission in regard to adding "sexual orientation" to the City Charter. A pastor of a church in the RURAL community of Berryhill introduced himself as the pastor of that church and talked as though his church was inside the City Limits of Tulsa. He did not live in Berryhill; he lived in Tulsa. But, he tried to use his church authority to say why "sexual orientation" should not be added to the City charter in regard to the city not discriminating against hiring one because of one's sexual orientation and the city would not do business with a company which also discriminated that way.

. . . Several of the pastors and their wives who spoke at the first hearing held at City Hall tried to claim they did not have homosexuals attending their churches. When it came my turn to speak, I made a comment that I had met some closeted as far as their churches were concerned gay men who told me where they went to church.

. . . Oh, I use my real name here because in the "Letters to the Editor" section of the Tulsa World, the newspaper will not print any unsigned letter on the Op-Ed page. I have had a number of letters printed in the past.

Clark, (10/16/2007 7:50:38 AM)

Is fifty dollar fine up top none other than donovan?

C, (10/16/2007 7:59:37 AM)

Does anyone know if LR has a personal assistant(s) or has had in the past?

G, (10/16/2007 8:11:39 AM)

I wouldn't release any more documents or letters either. I'd just wait until the trial. Period. Why? Because of those who don't have a thing to do with this, don't know what they're talking about, railing & carrying on so much of the time, about things that they know nothing about. The rumors, gossip, extravagant claims, don't give facts, but speculation & stories. Irresponsible ramblings that remind me of "& to think that I saw it on Mulberry Street", a story that most of you probably don't even know.

Rocky, (10/16/2007 8:12:55 AM)

As sad as it is, America is all about freedom. In reality, the things that seem lavish to some are not to others.

We have the freedom to shoot for the stars here. A small closet can be upgraded to a walk-in closet, a walk-in closet can get upgraded to a room sized closet, a room-sized closet can become the size of a house...

America doesn't dictate what we can and can't do in terms of "niceness".

People in Iraq are just dying to get that right now.

The other end of a free market is that you are limited with your resources.

All of this nice stuff came with a bill, that bill was paid with cash and that cash came from somewhere.

The Roberts' family can afford this ridiculous stuff because they have control of that much money. If people would cut off the funding, ie donations, then the money would go away.

People need to think long and hard about what religious institutions they are giving their money to.

As much as anyone would like to think that their contributions are going to pious people or even "given to God" they are usually going to some other American who is just trying to get their part of the "American Dream".

But really, do I you want the government telling you how big your closet is allowed to be?

Dave Armstrong, Wichita Kansas (10/16/2007 8:17:16 AM)

ORU needs to take a lesson from NASA. When nothing is happening show everything. When something bad is happening show even more. By not showing these IRS letters and documents, it says ORU is hiding something. My daughter has applied to go to school at ORU next fall but it's probably a waste of time now. The expensive degree won't be worth the paper it's written on.

G, (10/16/2007 8:19:43 AM)

Dave, normally I would agree with you on showing even more, but not with a court case going on; I would wait until the hearings.

DTaylor, (10/16/2007 8:28:51 AM)

I agree this is the real story. If there are to be lasting changes in whatever capacity, it must be instituted by a higher power. Maybe God will use the IRS to bring about these lasting changes?

The 2000 foot closet 'full' must be God ordained according to Lindsay. Wouldn't it have to be?

I have heard people in ministry say for years, in so many words, 'if you were blessed of God like me, you would have it too.' After 25 years of hearing and seeing that, that sickens me to my soul. : ]

Heather, ORU Grad, Tulsa (10/16/2007 8:31:16 AM)

RR says that he was aware of the IRS letters but didn't know the details. I would imagine that, if I was President of a university, I would want to know the details of something like that. Unless I wanted to be able to claim plausible deniability. Or maybe he's just flat-out lying. It sure wouldn't be the first time and I have no doubts it will be the last.

.....Off-topic: Fifty Dollar Fine, I lurve your screen name.

DTaylor, (10/16/2007 8:33:17 AM)

Witchita Dave.

I don't want to speak for anyone else, but what you are wanting to do, was the biggest mistake I personally ever made. And still paying for it, going on ten years later.

It ruined my family. In more ways than one.

Hold On, (10/16/2007 8:57:24 AM)

#12 Don't be deceived. The postings on these pages are from the lynch mob. There are only a few writers. I think Brooker has a team that is monitoring these blogs in order to keep the lies and misinformation flowing to affect the uninformed opinion of people like yourself. It will be revealed that Brooker and Swails were fired for just cause. The sensational release of gossip and un provable accusations are part of the vindictive personal vendetta and premeditated plan to destroy RR. This article is a case in point. The IRS found not illegal activity so what does that do to Brookers claims in the suit. Brooker called the IRS on ORU because of a personal issue with RR. Brooker has been a trouble maker at ORU prior to the "whistleblower" issues as claimed. ORU is prohibited by law from revealing their cause of action until the trial against these previous employees. Brooker has a history of causing trouble in AR. He left John Brown University on unfriendly terms. He had many legal issues in his past. All this is on the internet. Before the lynch mob hangs the Roberts without a trial and throws ORU out with the bath water lets take a step back and see the big picture. The report that has caused all the sensational publicity is nothing more than exaggerated rumors and un provable accusations.

Inormed, Land of Nod (10/16/2007 8:59:18 AM)

To #9. Yes Lindsay has and has had personal assistants most of the time. She's had a lot of them as once they cross her or disagree with her they get fired. Quite a turnover I might add. She is such a spoiled brat, and is so use to getting everything she wants, and NOW. She has made outrageous demands on her personal assistants. However, as the Good Book says, what a man (or woman) sows, they will reap. Now the DEMANDS are being made on Lindsay to answer all the allegations that are coming out. Former LR assistants UNITE. Now is the time to come forward and tell the TRUTH about your experiences in working for Lindsay.

melinda hulsey, piedmont alabama (10/16/2007 9:06:21 AM)

I feel the need to comment on all this religious stuff. The same people who are getting their needs met by taking money from poor people are the same ones who will lobby congressmen to stop healthcare for all americans, yet have the congressmen give them government handouts to help their ministries. They are supposed to, as God's ministers to stand up for the poor and down trodden. they are supposed to get up in the position they have been placed in and make sure oppression and fear does not happen. Also if they would really read the bible they would read in there that Jesus had one of his disciples pay TAXES(emphasis mine) for him. He had no tax exempt status. I was watching Pat Robertson last week talk about healthcare, and he was showing a snippet to prove a point for himself about how a woman in England had to pull her own teeth because their "socialized" medical system caused her to wait for a dentist. Well I have had two teeth that need to be pulled and I guess I will have to pull mine, because I can't even come up with 35 dollars now to get into a clinic for poor people. Gas is 3 dollars , milk for a store brand is probably 4 dollars a gallon. Why do we listen to fear mongerers who only seek to further their own agendas?

Amen!, (10/16/2007 9:06:29 AM)

#18--AMEN AND AMEN!!! I am one of the fortunate "former" assistants who was fired (and was never given a reason for my termination). All I can say is "thank you, Lord!" It's so nice living in the clean world again.

Wipe the scales from your eyes, (10/16/2007 9:09:54 AM)

#12 Why would you even allow your daughter to apply to a university named after Oral Roberts? You should know better. If it's a Christian college she's wanting, there are much better choices out there for her.

JC, Tulsa (10/16/2007 9:10:18 AM)

It took the IRS to bring down Al Capone. They are a pretty powerful organization.

False Teeth, (10/16/2007 9:11:28 AM)

#19 Maybe you sould cut your cable and high speed internet off for a couple of months so you can save enough to pay for your personal medical needs.

Wipe the scales from your eyes, (10/16/2007 9:13:04 AM)

G: You'd better practice what you preach. In the end you're going to see that all of these folks who "don't know what they're talking about" are correct,and that the only person who REALLY didn't know what they were talking about is YOU. Wait and see. Then maybe you can explain to the rest of us exactly what crow tastes like.

G, (10/16/2007 9:15:05 AM)

Hold on, I agree with you.

Informed, didn't you say that this was a wrongful firing case? If so, what does gossip about Lindsay Roberts have to do with it? Swails was the only one "fired", Brooker's wife's contract was not renewed (common practice & you don't even have to have a reason), & Brooker resigned. It's too bad that Swails got sucked into the Brookers stories.