The Oracle, Tulsa (10/26/2007 5:50:22 AM)

URGENT!!Take away the tax-exempt status of the reverands,the so-called churches,and the assets.If the reverands and churches spend time and money influencing legislation,they are breaking the law.If they harbor law breakers,they are breaking the law.When they say "it's not the money".....it's the money.

Dover, (10/26/2007 6:27:59 AM)

They have to show that it had damaged someone?

As far as I can tell until that person actually has to move it shouldnt matter. All they have to do is show them a drivers license. Whats so hard about that???? Wouldnt this reverand be considered aiding a criminal after November 1??? I hope so. Hey illegals pack it up and drive or walk I dont care as fast as you can and maybe you get out of this hostile state before the first of November!!!! GO HB1804!!!!

Dover, (10/26/2007 6:28:53 AM)

It is really getting hard to see this traitors face in the paper all the time

BoomerSooner, Tulsa (10/26/2007 8:04:59 AM)

The Tulsa World article states: "the newly filed version of the suit includes plaintiffs who have been notified by landlords that they will be evicted unless they can provide a valid driver's license and a valid Social Security number."

Let's see: The additional plantiffs don't have driver's licenses (which means they are probably driving illegally--not to mention not being insured) AND they don't have valid SS numbers (which probably means they are not paying payroll taxes or filing a tax return). So now we have at least four more additional, blatant violations of our laws, ON TOP OFF being illegal immigrants...and this makes this makes sense to people like Victor Orta?!

Victor Orta is a disgrace to the ministry. Obviously, the Jesus in his Bible doesn't command him to obey the laws of the land.

mdc, Broken Arrow (10/26/2007 8:22:14 AM)

As an american citizen... I pay taxes... and therefore, i have a LEGAL right to vote on how my tax dollars are spent... just like everyone else that is supporting HB 1804. My vote is for MY tax dollars to not be spent assisting anyone that is not in this country legally. I don't want illegal immigrants getting government benefits, working on government contracts, getting medical care, getting education in public schools, or driving illegaly on public roads. That is MY RIGHT as a legal citizen. And I bet if you took a vote the legal citizen voters of this country would vote the same by a huge margin. So... let's let the people decide. That's how Democracy works... Let's see what the people want! Then Orta can take his lawsuit and stick it...

Tania, (10/26/2007 9:10:16 AM)

I can understand the thing about tax dollars.

But I disagree with all the disgraceful comments to pack the suff up and get out. Is that what Jesus told you? Jesus tols us to LOVE OUR NEIGHBOR. And he did not mean legal or illegal, black or white. JUST LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.

Have you recently looked at construction sites? Most of the people building your homes are Hispanic. Same about your favorite mexican restaurants (and not only mexican).

If all these people pack their stuff and get out, who will build your homes and cook your food??? You, fat americans? These people work hard for less money. Do you want to pay $8 for a pound of tomatoes?

And what about the american-hispanic families? there are a lot of families in this state where one spouse is illegal. Does it mean you don't care that these kids will have to grow up without mommy of daddy? Or the U.S. Citizen kids born from illegal parents?

HB 1804 is UNCONSTITUTIONAL! If it war for me, I would give the "qualifying" hispanincs (here i mean no crime history) a chance to stay here and pay taxes like the rest of us do, I would give them a chance to raise their children here and contribute to the society.

mdc, Broken Arrow (10/29/2007 10:11:59 AM)

Wow... this has turned into the most ridiculous discussion yet... This IS NOT ABOUT RACE!!! This is about having some controls on the boarders of this country. This is about having LEGAL documented immigrants so that there can be ORDER. This is about punishing people that are living a LAWLESS lifestyle. This is about making sure that government benefits are provided to LEGAL citizens that are entitled to it. Not to someone that shows up illegally and DEMANDS it.

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I challenge ANY and ALL opponents of HB 1804 to actually read it... then cite examples of what the problems with it are.

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And no hiding behind supposed economical downfalls... those towns faced specific issues that aren't present in Tulsa... maybe some small towns in Oklahoma will struggle... Towns like Guymon that are over run where 40% of the town is made up of illegal immigrants due to a large company coming in and exploiting illegal labor and taking advantage of a town.

mdc, Broken Arrow (10/29/2007 10:13:17 AM)

For those of you who are opponents of HB 1804 and haven't read it... let me give you the cliff notes...

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Section 1 – establishes the title of the bill

Section 2 – states that failure to enforce immigration laws harms safety and welfare of legal citizens.

Section 3 – makes it a crime to move, transport, or attempt to transport any KNOWN illegal aliens. This part replicates a FEDERAL LAW already in place.

Section 4 – states that an individual must show valid proof of legal residency prior to applying for a State driver’s license or ID.

Section 5 – allows law enforcement to verify immigration status or citizenship of any person arrested.

Section 6 – Defines terminology used in section 7

Section 7 – requires public employers to register and use a federal employment eligibility system to make sure applicant is legal to work. And employers can not enter into a contract with a contractor or subcontractor that does not use the same system. Also makes it illegal for an employer to fire a LEGAL employee while maintaining an ILLEGAL employee.

Section 8 – anyone applying for state or local public benefits must prove legal status.

Section 9 – Any contractor that does not have a valid SSN will be charged income taxes at the highest rate allowed.

Section 10 – Calls for state and local law enforcement to work together on immigration enforcement.

Section 11 – students can’t get post secondary educational benefits or resident tuition unless they can prove that they are here legally.

Section 12 – the department of public safety must establish a Fraudulent Documents Identification Unit…

Section 13 – says that students can not enroll in a post secondary educational institution unless they are here legally or can show that they have applied to be here legally.

Section 14 – sets effective date as November 1st

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Please tell me which part of this is "unconstitutional"???

***, (10/29/2007 6:29:10 PM)

What about the part were good people can be charged as felons for helping someone or giving them rides? If I see a family whose car has broken down on the side of the freeway am I not suppose to stop and help maybe give them a ride to a gas station b/c they are Hispanic. IF I help someone without asking them to show me some legal ID am I a criminal. If I am hispanic and need a ride, do you believe anyone would stop to help me, or would they leave me stranded b/c they are afraid to help me.

***, (10/29/2007 6:31:03 PM)

A law that punishes people for helping others is wrong.

mdc, Broken Arrow (10/30/2007 9:57:32 AM)

*** - now you're just being ridiculous to try and make a point. You're talking extreme circumstances. One... if you see a family along the side of the road and you give them a ride... you're not committing a felony. You don't have the resources nor the capacity to verify legal status... therefore, under HB 1804 you are not "KNOWINGLY" assisting an illegal immigrant, and therefore have committed no crime.

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See... that is the kind of hate, fear, and misinformation that the great REV Orta and the media are trying to pass off to get support against this bill. That is a COMPLETELY ignorant argument. Now... if you KNOW that they are illegal and you give them a ride across the border and help them gain employment and set up residency... then YES... you are breaking the LAW. But, by FEDERAL standards, those LAWS already exist...

mdc, Broken Arrow (10/30/2007 10:52:06 AM)

It would be the same differences in the example of being a driver for someone that commits a bank heist and ignorantly giving someone a ride that may have committed a bank heist two days before. You can't be an accessory unless you "knowingly" assisted someone that was committing a crime..

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But... see... that's the whole point... there aren't any good arguments against HB 1804... only extremist slanted propaganda that is aimed at instilling ignorant fear in the population. Applying a little common sense to the situation should relieve the majority of those fears... unless you are breaking the LAW and here illegally.

Dover, (10/27/2007 9:59:15 AM)

#34 if the dinosaurs were still here I would gladly leave for them. If you are going to go back into the past then lets do it. Possibly cavemen! Dumb###

msmax, Tulsa (10/27/2007 11:40:55 AM)

Picture this: I (along with 10 million other US citizens) go to another country. Let's just pick Norway for a hypothetical example (doesn't matter...choose one of your own.) I cross the border illegally (i.e. don't fill out paperwork, obtain a VISA, register with gov't authorities,etc.) I set up housekeeping, enroll my kids in schools, get medical care, get a car but don't register & get a Dr. License or insurance, earn wages but don't pay taxes, maybe break a local law or two (either out of deliberation or ignorance...doesn't matter). Then the Norwegian gov't locates me. And I begin telling them my story: I can't find work in the U.S., my kids need healthcare, I want a better life & this looks like a great country to find it in, my geneaology connects me back to a viking, etc...summed up, I give them my story. And do you know what the Norwegian gov't would say to me? "Msmax, we totally sympathize with you & your personal story. While we indeed understand your personal plight, we still have laws by which you must abide if you want to be here. And the first one is that you have to register legally. Love ya, but ya gotta go because you're here illegally." There's nothing racist about any of it. Gov'ts have laws to protect all the people...the ones who are here legally & the ones who aren't.

Bobby, Long Beach, Indian territory (10/27/2007 3:06:35 PM)

You don't really want White people to deport themselves, do you? Who would come to the Native Americans Casinos and gamble and make you rich so you can lay around and get drunk and not work, like your poor ancestors had to.

Bobby, Long Beach , Alta Californa, sorry,Indian Country (10/27/2007 3:10:56 PM)

#36 White people built America with hard work, others come and say gimmi, gimmi, gimmi.

White people work? Funny, (10/27/2007 3:57:36 PM)

White people built America with hard work???

White people don't work hard. They get others to do the work for them. Being white does not make you any better than any one else. White people got rich by enslaving blacks and making them do all the work. White people are not the true Americans, Native American Indians are. White people are immigrants just like Mexicans. They never asked the Native Americans for permission to take over their land. Don't be such hypocrites.

Bobby, Long Beach, California (10/27/2007 5:13:06 PM)

No, I'm sorry. White people from Europe, worked hard all day long. You know, those called sodbusters. Yes, whites ancestors, removed the boulders on the land, by hand, and then tilled and farmed that land and grew old prematurely doing so. They planted crops, for food. This fed those in cities. Those in the cities, worked in the hot sun all day, with no labor laws, and built gigantic buildings, bridges, roads. Some were killed on those buildings and bridges and roads. Some worked in coal mines, that provided energy for the new nation, and they got black lung disease. Others, educated the youths, and built universities and schools. Others still built aqueducts and brought water into desert cities from hundreds of miles away, in places like Arizona, and California, nothing but dry worthless desert before the white man came and changed it. Are these facts racist, or are they the truth? Well, I'm sure ethnic studies professors (with a chip on their shoulders, even though they seem to take the overblown salaries they receive from taxpayers), would say these statements are racist.

Then, as far as slavery goes, hardly any Americans owned slaves. Some of the rich did. This has gone on since the beginning of the world and not only with blacks. More whites, in the history of the world were slaves than any other race. Where do you think the word (Slav) slave comes from. But,...go ahead and live in your little fantasy world, if it makes you feel better about life. The truth, however, is out there for those who seek it. The truth never hurt anyone, just helped them.

You will regret your ignorance, ex-Tulsa (10/27/2007 8:49:42 AM)

Oklahoma will regret what they have done in their ignorance. Cities that committed the same mistake have come forward warning others not pass these racist laws. Their cities have gone bankrupt after deporting and scaring away thousands of hard working people residents of their town and I can't wait for the same to happen to Tulsa. If you think losing more than 30,000 people is not going to hurt Tulsa's economy you are just ignorant. Store's and restaurants are closing houses and apartments are being left vacant, cars are not being sold, = less money for Tulsa's economy. What goes around comes around. Remember the dust bowl days? Karma

Dover, (10/27/2007 9:15:14 AM)

#31 That is funny I was not aware the dust bowl days were caused by illegals! I thought it was the weather. We will not crumble based on cleaning up our streets of illegals. We are americans and we are strong. We do not depend on illegals for survival. The only businesses that will be hurt are the ones that hire illegal aliens and the ones that send money to their home country, the churches and I guess maybe these people will have to pick fruits and veggies for us if they want to eat. But life will go on. So get over yourself and your race. Maybe now we can give those jobs to rightous legal immigrants and fellow citizens. Actually I am glad we are scaring you off. That was the point you know....It wont be long until the state you probably moved to will adopt a similiar law. So dont unpack to quickly.

Dover, (10/27/2007 9:16:25 AM)

#31 One more thing. Doesnt the state you just invaded have a newpaper for you to comment in?????

HYPOCRITES, (10/27/2007 9:40:27 AM)

All WHITE PEOPLE ARE ILLEGAL INVADERS OF NATIVE AMERICAN TERRITORY. DEPORT YOURSELVES FIRST.

***, (10/27/2007 9:41:52 AM)

the dust bowl was caused by God punishing the racist rednecks.

Dumb Dover, (10/27/2007 9:50:05 AM)

I am an American citizen. I just choose not to give anymore of my tax dollars to such a racist state. Which will most likely go bankrupt b/c it will be full of lazy white people who choose to sit on their fat butts and collect unemployment instead of doing the hard jobs that Hispanics use to do.

Bren, (10/26/2007 4:47:55 PM)

I hope that the Tulsa police have been trained and certified in the Homeland Security/ICE 287(g) Program-----so that they will be LEGALLY able to arrest and deport illegals no matter what ends up being the result of this hearing!!!