The Oracle, Tulsa (11/14/2007 5:37:18 AM)

Be very careful about teaching for doctrine the commandments of men.

EIEIO, (11/14/2007 8:07:02 AM)

Anytime there is a gahtering or convention of baptists in a city, the rental of hotel pay-per-view porn in the area hotels goes through the roof. I guess its hard to be pious all the time.

B Patten, Downtown Tulsa (11/14/2007 8:55:17 AM)

As a former SB I find the previous comment to be hilarious and probably true.

LMAO, (11/14/2007 9:27:54 AM)

It would be fantastic if buffoons like this would focus on issues that matter, rather than the sale of wine in grocery stores, which keeps Oklahoma from getting any decent grocery chains. I guess these bumpkins are satisfied with Homeland.

pjc, tulsa (11/14/2007 9:29:21 AM)

They are confusing the difference between helping people in need and helping crooks get away with stuff.

If u are hear getting $$ and not paying your share of taxes (paying only salestax isnt enough) and often getting free or heavily discounted medical, and are not a citizen...you are a criminal.

I agree that helping one is good and is a higher law.

But what SB's are talking about is knowingly helping a person who is intentionally avoiding paying his way like citizens and 'legal's are.

Tim, Tulsa (11/14/2007 10:49:19 AM)

Man what a bunch of religious kooks. That is quite a laundry list they have going. I am sure they would SUPPORT tossing a woman into prison if she had an abortion.

Why does any MAN have a vote in abortion? The WOMAN carries the child.

mdc, Broken Arrow (11/14/2007 11:55:00 AM)

This is ridiculous... HB 1804 doesn't say anything about giving someone a ride to the hospital... It pertains to people that "KNOWINGLY" assist illegal immigrants.

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This was purely a political stunt by this group to gain publicity. I'm sorely dissapointed in them...

Dorothy, BA (11/14/2007 12:46:41 PM)

mcd, that would still be transporting an illegal...what publicity??? feeling guilty about saying how you really feel against the church??? Not so judgemental when the church is involved are you???

mdc, Broken Arrow (11/14/2007 1:36:24 PM)

Dorothy... read the legislation. You're making a fool of yourself and you've obviously not read HB 1804. You have to "KNOWINGLY" be transporting an ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT for it to be against the LAW. If you have NO knowledge that they are illegal, then it's not a problem.

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Publicity?!? ARe you that ignorant??? Where did you read this article? TW? That would be publicity. You need help.

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Your agenda is obvious, but you need to get your facts straight.

Dorothy, BA (11/14/2007 1:44:08 PM)

Someone has questioned your "knowledge" the publicity would refer to them gaining more people ??? that would be publicity. I have read the legislation...and if your pulled over and the person in the car is illegal then I guess you would have to lie and say you didn;t know...guess that is what I will tell folks to do...lie and say you didn;t know they were illegal. Also I didn't state any facts!!!! you are the fact slinger. (other posts pertaining to immigration)

mdc, Broken Arrow (11/14/2007 1:52:19 PM)

wow Dorothy... you really are an idiot... try dictionary dot com... look up publicity.

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pub·lic·i·ty - noun - 1. extensive mention in the news media or by word of mouth or other means of communication. 2. public notice so gained. 3. the measures, process, or business of securing public notice. 4. information, articles, or advertisements issued to secure public notice or attention.

5. the state of being public, or open to general observation or knowledge.

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I don't see anything in there about "gaining more people"... but good try.

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And you are correct. YOU are not stating any FACTS. Only opinion. Unless they tell you they are illegal, then how would you know?

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dorothy, BA (11/14/2007 2:21:10 PM)

Man you are really showing us how well you can cut and paste...your a close minded racist...your comments on other posts are very ignorant... you did not read what I wrote again just like your other post you only read what you want...I said...or I guess what I ment...is that is the way around BH 1804...if anyone gets pulled over just state that you didn't know they were illegal...then I can't be commintting a crime..because I didn't know, right??? and most people want pubicity in order to gain something...I feel sorry for you that you have no compassion.

CG, (11/14/2007 2:23:12 PM)

Oppose hate-crime legislation and highpoint liquor sales? Jeez Baptists, did reinstituting stoning for infidelity just sound too backwards? Who listens to these snake-oil salesmen anymore? Oh that's right, Oklahomans...

dorothy , BA (11/14/2007 2:25:35 PM)

I thought this whole thing is opinion based. You sling facts when someone disagrees with YOUR opinion. I think we do need immigration reform, like it should not take 7 years for a family to become legal, not citizens, that takes another 5 or so years, 7 to just get a green card. So find a solution for that and maybe I would agree with some more of what you say.

mdc, Broken Arrow (11/14/2007 2:33:06 PM)

Dorothy... once again. This issue is about FACTS. The FACTS are why americans are fed up with the ILLEGAL immigration problem. It's not opinion based... the opposition to HB 1804 is opinion based... they don't like it...

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Through previous employers, I have personally assisted dozens of immigrants on getting legal work visa's and on filing for citizenship. I took them through the process of getting here LEGALLY, and even financial sponsored many of them. The process to obtain a work visa can be expensive, and at times frustrating, but it DOES NOT take 5-7 years. Yes... if you come here illegally and then try to file to become LEGAL, the process is VERY difficult.

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Yes reform is needed and the process should be streamlined so that it is quicker. But, that doesn't mean that we should allow everyone that wants to be here LEGALLY a cheap express lane to do so. As a country, we only have so much room...

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But in the meantime, just because you DON'T LIKE the LAW and the PROCESS, doesn't give anyone the right to break it.

mdc, Broken Arrow (11/14/2007 2:35:53 PM)

It's always safer to form opinions and take actions based on FACTS. Otherwise, you are forming an uneducated opinion. Opinions can be wrong, but FACTS don't lie.

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OUr judicial system doesn't convict people based on OPINION, they convict people based on FACT. That is how bias is removed and FAIR judgements are made.

dorothy, ba (11/14/2007 2:49:26 PM)

Where the immigrants here or did you go to Mexico and get these people??? Everyon seems to thinks that legal and citizenship are one in the same they are NOT!!!! Also the USA will only issue a certain amount of visas per year. If they decide they don't want you to have a visa then you can't even come visit. That is the USA issuing visas not Mexico. Also it depends on where you get your so called "facts". You are not the end all be all of the HB 1804, you are entitled to your opinon and I am entitled to mine.

dorothy, ba (11/14/2007 2:51:56 PM)

FAIR judgements...what about those who are released from jail after being convicted of a crime they did not commit??? A jury is a group of people who think that there is a reasonable doubt...opinion...hung jury...difference in opinion. Am I wrong???

mdc, Broken Arrow (11/14/2007 3:03:02 PM)

I brought 2 from Venezuala, 2 from Mexico, a dozen from Canada, 4 from Manilla, 6 from Singapore, 3 from Ireland and a few others. They were all brought here on work visas, 4 ended up getting married in while in the states, and we also assisted them with filing for citizenship. The process for 3 of them took 2 years, the process for the remaining one took 3 1/2 years (he had some legal issues to clear up in his home country).

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As a country we have a right to only issue a certain number visa, and we have a right to say who can come and who can't. My FACTS came from a government site that had posted census data on the cost of immigration. So no... I'm not the end all beat all on HB 1804. But, if someone is going to argue for or against someone, they should be educated on the FACTS. Otherwise, they are being led by the political propaganda that is spread by media for the sake of swaying your opinion. I was born with a brain, and I chose to use my brain and study FACTs and make up my own mind. Not believe everything that I hear in the media.

mdc, Broken Arrow (11/14/2007 3:07:14 PM)

The jury makes a decision based on the FACTS that were delivered to them during trial. It is the burden of the prosecution to present the FACTS of the case to prove guilt, it is the burden of the Defense to dispute those facts and present additional FACTS that prove the innocence of their client.

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The jury then gets to decide if the FACTS that were presented show that beyond a "resonable doubt" the individual is guilty. All based on EVIDENCE and FACTS.

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Yes, some people have been wrongly convicted and NEW evidence may have been found to prove the innocence of an individual. Typically, individuals have convictions over turned as a result of DNA evidence now being presented that MAY not have been available during the original trial... NEW FACTS can over turn a conviction.

dorothy, ba (11/14/2007 3:16:18 PM)

So you were a coyote??? lol just kidding...years ago it did take a shorter period of time, my husband only took a few years ( not sure exactly how many, it was before I knew him), but on the USCIS website they are working on I-130s that were submitted in April, 2001. I was shocked. That is for family members other than parents or minor children. I read it the other night and I was shocked. Something needs to be done to fix this craziness. Also my opinion is not politically based or by the media for the sake of swaying my opinion, it is based on the feelings that I have for MY family. I was born with a brain also,m but I was also blessed with a heart and soul. I know the facts that I have experienced in my life and not every thing that I hear in the media...

dorothy, ba (11/14/2007 3:19:44 PM)

As fun as this is, I need to go get my kids from school. I'm sure I will get a chance to dispute my opinion against yours again in the future since this law is not gone YET!!! LOL This is a true showing of free speech in American and I m glad I can speak my mind and not be persecuted for it. Thanks and I look forward to debating with you again in the future...have a great day!!!!

dorothy, ba (11/14/2007 3:20:26 PM)

GOD BLESS AMERICA!!!

rufus, jackson (11/14/2007 3:37:03 PM)

This has become a non issue, illegals are self deporting, just as predicted by Terrill. 1804 is an overwhelming success that will eventially become law nationwide.

Mark, Okmulgee (11/14/2007 3:37:10 PM)

Yawl, the facts are that the Baptist boys have an opinion that got printed in the paper. The Catholic's got their point accross.......I think we should hire illegal immigrants to build a wall. That way it would be done quickly without all this chatter. Next if the Muslins would boycott all airlines we would have a secure country.....and American Airlines, please return my pill cutter.