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ORU alumni support sought
A bronze sculpture of praying hands is located at the entrance to ORU and is one of many unique architectural landmarks on campus.
By APRIL MARCISZEWSKI World Staff Writer
Published:
11/25/2007 1:55 AM
Last Modified: 11/25/2007 1:57 AM
Read the latest stories about the ORU lawsuit, view the lawsuit and other documents and watch slide shows and video.
Some uncertain after resignation
Uncertainty remained Saturday about what effect Richard Roberts' resignation as president will have on Oral Roberts University, but some observers said it was a step toward improvement.
"I think people are going to be waiting and watching: OK, can it survive without a Roberts at the helm?" said Donald R. Vance, professor of biblical languages and literature.
Vance said he thinks alumni need to support ORU as it undergoes this transition, after being led for 42 years by a Roberts. ORU professors are committed to the school's evangelical Christian mission, but that might not be obvious without a TV minister as president, he said. Christian colleges across the country are led by non-ministers -- "it will just be different for us."
ORU leaders have not addressed what role, if any, Roberts will have at the university. He is a "lifetime spiritual regent" on its board and is the chairman and CEO of Oral Roberts Ministries, through which he and his wife, Lindsay, each host TV shows and raise money for ORU. He and his family live in a house, built with ministry donations, adjacent to campus.
Some have suggested the ministries be separated from the university, but Roberts and ORU founder Oral Roberts
have opposed that idea, saying it would lead ORU toward becoming secular.
ORU interim Co-President Billy Joe Daugherty and ORU regents Chairman George Pearsons declined, through an ORU spokesman, to be interviewed. Roberts' attorneys did not return phone calls Saturday.
Also unresolved is a lawsuit that some think kick-started the events that led up to Roberts' resignation. Three former professors sued ORU, Roberts, ORU Provost Mark Lewandowski and two other administrators, saying they had been wrongfully terminated. Their lawsuit included allegations that the Roberts family misspent ORU and ministries money.
ORU fired John Swails, one of the former professors suing ORU, without following procedures, Vance alleged.
"It was the last straw in the mishandling of faculty," Vance said. ". . . The tenured faculty had finally had enough."
Now, Lewandowski has spoken out in favor of faculty being more involved in decision-making, and professors have voted against Roberts continuing as president.
Lewandowski, who earlier told the board of regents that he couldn't continue in his job if Roberts remained as president, said he thinks ORU will remain stable during the transition to new leadership. The board is scheduled to decide on a presidential search process during meetings Monday and Tuesday.
An ORU president must have "solid academic credentials, leadership skills and a strong Christian faith," the ORU provost said.
"It may not be a very easy job to get one to come to ORU in a time of challenge like we're facing now," he said.
Young universities are often built on the shoulders of dynamic leaders, Lewandowski said.
"As the university matures, it becomes a solid organization that doesn't require the same amount of charismatic leadership because the mission of the university is held and guarded and sustained by its faculty and its administration and its alumni," he said.
Lewandowski said he thinks ORU's primary focus needs to be increasing revenue. Last month, the university reported it was $52.5 million in debt.
Fiscal accountability could help rebuild trust among alumni and the community, Lewandowski said.
ORU's academic programs remain strong, and faculty have begun increasing their role in running the university, taking a step toward establishing trust within the academic community, he said.
Student recruitment for next year's freshman class is going well, he said. More parents than usual came to a recruitment event recently, and more students are taking a "wait-and-see" approach. Lewandowski thinks "decisive moves by the board of regents . . . will alleviate any of their concerns and fears."
Alumni board member and 2003 graduate Joey Odom suggested alumni get involved with the university in any way they can because they, along with students and faculty, make up ORU's identity. Odom already has started talking with others about how to encourage donations to ORU.
"The challenge is going to be reinstilling confidence in the university," he said.
Alumni he talked to wanted Roberts to step down, and Odom thinks this will give ORU a new beginning.
Roberts "came into a tough situation," he said. His father turned farmland into a university and became a world-renowned minister. "Those were huge shoes to step into" when Richard Roberts became the school's second president in 1993.
Still, "it will be very weird that Richard isn't the president anymore," Odom said.
Fast facts
Oral Roberts University
Evangelistic, charismatic Christian university.
Started in 1965.
Oral Roberts, founder and first president.
His son Richard Roberts, second president, starting in 1993.
Board of regents, led by the Rev. George Pearsons.
4,010 students this fall.
$52.5 million in debt.
Campus voice
What ORU students are saying about Richard Roberts resigning his position as university president:
“I’m surprised. I thought he would stick it out . . . I admire and trust him. For five years I’ve been under his preaching and teaching. I think he’s innocent.”
Art Haddaway, ORU senior
“I’m kind of sad to see all of this happen. I hate to be judgmental, but if you step down you’re kind of admitting something’s wrong.”
Amanda Herrin, ORU junior
A CHALLENGE TO THE UNIVERSITY
Eight weeks ago, three former Oral Roberts University professors filed a lawsuit claiming they were wrongfully fired or forced to resign. The lawsuit also alleged that ORU President Richard Roberts and his family misspent university and Oral Roberts Ministries money.The lawsuit began a chain of publicized events that culminated Friday night with Roberts resigning as president of ORU.
THE PLAYERS
Plaintiffs
John Swails, former ORU history, humanities and government department chairman
Tim Brooker, former ORU government professor
Paulita Brooker, former ORU adjunct government professor and School of Lifelong Learning professor
Represented by attorneys Gary L. Richardson and Paul T. Boudreaux
Defendants
Oral Roberts University
ORU board of regents
Richard Roberts, resigned as ORU president, but continuing as chairman and CEO of Oral Roberts Ministries
Mark Lewandowski, ORU executive vice president for academic affairs
Wendy Shirk, dean of the ORU School of Arts and Cultural Studies, which includes the government department
Jeff Ogle, ORU, vice provost for academic advancement
Added as defendants in a version of the lawsuit not yet accepted by the court:
Oral Roberts Ministries
The ministries’ board of directors
Lindsay Roberts, ORU lifetime spiritual regent
ORU, Lewandowski, Shirk and Ogle represented by attorneys John H.Tucker, Jo Anne Deaton and Lindsay J.McDowell
Richard Roberts individually represented by attorneys Frank M. Hagedorn and Robert P. Fitz-Patrick
ORU leaders
Interim Co-Presidents Billy Joe Daugherty, pastor of Victory Christian Center in Tulsa, ORU regent and ORU alumnus; and Oral Roberts, lifetime spiritual regent, founder and first president of the university
Board of regents, chaired by George Pearsons, pastor of Eagle Mountain International Church in Newark,Texas
Investigating allegations made in the lawsuit
Washington, D.C., law firm Miller & Chevalier Chartered, supported by Arlington, Texas, accounting firm Pickens, Snodgrass, Koch & Co.,P.C.
ORU board of regents audit and compliance committee
THE LAWSUIT
Ex-professors’ legal claims
Wrongful termination or forced resignation
Conspiracy to fire them and institution of a “smear campaign” against them
Libel and slander
Intentional infliction of emotional distress
Negligence by the boards to oversee ORU, administrators and the university’s finances
Interference with the professors’ contracts and business relationships
Fraud:The defendants allegedly hired the professors under “false pretenses” regarding ORU and the ministries
Professor Swails is asking for his job back
“Scandal Vulnerability Assessment”
The report, which is attached to the lawsuit, that the professors claim cost them their jobs.
The professors are not asking the court or a jury to rule on the report’s allegations.
Richard Roberts claims the report was at least partly written by his sister-in-law, Stephanie Cantees, three years ago and consisted of false rumors she had heard.The Robertses have denied the report’s allegations and said they paid for their personal expenses.
The report includes allegations that Roberts’ wife, Lindsay, spent a great deal of time with an underage boy; Lindsay sent many text messages to underage boys between 1 and 3 a.m.; the Robertses misused ORU and Oral Roberts Ministries money, for example, by remodeling their house 11 times in 14 years; the Robertses used ORU’s jet for a daughter’s senior trip; dormitories were remodeled for Roberts daughters; ORU and ministries employees did the daughters’ homework; and more.
Matthew Schwoegler, allegedly the “underage male,” and his parents said in written statements that Lindsay Roberts was like a “second mother” who gave Matthew advice but did nothing sexual or inappropriate with him.
The professors have subpoenaed a pilot, the ORU security director and a private investigator for any documents and evidence that might substantiate the report.The defendants asked the court to “quash” the subpoenas as seeking irrelevant information.
Politics
The former professors claim Richard Roberts required them to make their students help with Randi Miller’s Tulsa mayoral campaign last year, in violation of federal laws prohibiting tax-exempt organizations from getting involved in political campaigns.The professors say a student working on the campaign was using the computer of Cantees, his community and government liaison, and came across the report.Tim Brooker said he turned the report over to administrators,who allegedly did nothing for 14 months, and so he and professor Swails gave the report to regents in July. Shortly thereafter, the professors said, they lost their jobs.
TIMELINE
2004:
Stephanie Cantees, ORU President Richard Roberts’ sister-in-law, gives Roberts a report of false rumors that she has collected in the scope of her job with Oral Roberts Ministries, Roberts alleges. The report “was so ridiculous, I just dismissed it out of hand,” he says.
December 2005/Early 2006:
Professor Tim Brooker gets his students involved in Randi Miller’s Tulsa mayoral campaign, Brooker claims, on an order by Roberts.
Spring 2006:
The professors allege Cantees loaned her laptop computer to the campaign, making the report of alleged wrongdoing available to a student working on the campaign.Brooker turns over the report to administrators.
May-October 2006:
The Internal Revenue Service investigates whether ORU“participated in political programs inappropriately,” and ORU addresses “certain deficiencies,” an ORU spokesman says.
May 2007:
Paulita Brooker is wrongfully terminated, according to the professors’ lawsuit.
July 16, 2007:
Professors John Swails and Tim Brooker turn over the report to ORU regents.
Aug. 28:
Swails is fired, he says. About that time:Tim Brooker is forced to resign, Swails claims.
Mid-September:
ORU board Chairman George Pearsons receives a copy of the report.
Late September or early October:
The board’s audit and compliance committee starts investigating the allegations in the report, Pearsons says.
Oct. 2:
Three former ORU professors file a lawsuit in Tulsa County District Court, alleging they were wrongfully terminated or forced to resign.They include with the lawsuit a summary of the report, which Roberts says is at least partially written by Cantees.
Oct. 3:
Roberts tells students in a campus chapel service that he is “not intimidated by blackmail and extortion.”
Oct. 5:
ORU’s board decides to employ an extra independent audit firm to strengthen accountability. Roberts says he pays for his family’s personal expenses.
Oct. 9:
Roberts and his wife, Lindsay Roberts, deny the lawsuit’s and report’s allegations and appear on CNN’s “Larry King Live.”
Oct. 10:
ORU board Chairman Pearsons tells students and employees in chapel that anything at ORU that needs to be fixed will be fi xed. Former Regent Billy Joe Daugherty, pastor of Victory Christian Center in Tulsa, announces he has returned to the board.
Oct. 12:
The three professors amend their lawsuit to include what they say is the exact report — titled “Scandal Vulnerability Assessment”—retrieved from Cantees’ computer.The professors add the ORU board of regents as a defendant and claim the board was negligent in overseeing the university and administrators.
Oct. 13:
Lindsay Roberts denies the allegations and says she lives in a “morally upright manner.” In response to the negligence claim, ORU says it did not employ a “sexual deviant” or improperly destroy documents.
Oct. 17:
Richard Roberts asks and receives permission from the ORU board to take a leave of absence as president while the lawsuit’s allegations are investigated; he remains the chairman and CEO of Oral Roberts Ministries. The ORU board names Daugherty and university founder Oral Roberts as cointerim presidents.
Oct. 22:
Oral Roberts returns to Tulsa for the first time in three years and speaks at the campus chapel service, saying no one will take away the university.
Oct. 23:
The board signs a contract with Washington, D.C., law firm Miller & Chevalier Chartered to oversee an independent audit of the lawsuit’s allegations and ORU’s finances.The Arlington,Texas, accounting firm Pickens, Snodgrass,Koch & Co.,P.C. is helping.
Oct. 24:
ORU says it is $52.5 million in debt, and Pearsons says the board is working to eliminate the debt.
Oct. 26:
ORU and the four administrators sued by the professors file documents in court asking that the professors and their attorneys be banned from speaking about the case outside of court. The defendants ask the court to throw out the second and third versions of the professors’ lawsuit.
Oct. 30:
ORU leaders tell employees they have considered selling the campus-based TV station and have secured longer, lower loan terms, a professor says. On Nov. 2, ORU confirms the station is the subject of sales negotiations.
Nov. 2:
ORU and administrators who were sued ask for Gary Richardson to be disqualified as the professors’ attorney because he allegedly is also the attorney for Cantees. Richardson says he is not Cantees’ attorney and never discussed the report with her. The defendants claim the report was stolen, which Richardson denies.The defendants also ask the court to require mediation.
Nov. 6:
A U.S. senator asks leaders of six ministries, including three ORU regents, for financial documents, including explanations of how certain expenses are related to their ministries’ tax-exempt purposes.
Nov. 9:
Swails asks in court documents for his job back. The professors ask the court permission to amend their lawsuit and add Oral Roberts Ministries, its board and Lindsay Roberts as defendants; claim the ministries board was negligent; claim the defendants were fraudulent; and claim the defendants interfered with the professors’ contracts and business relationships.They notify the court they have subpoenaed three people for documents that might substantiate the Scandal Vulnerability Assessment.
Nov. 12:
A quorum of tenured ORU professors votes “no confidence” in Richard Roberts as president and votes in favor of “greater faculty governance and transparency of university finances.” A professor says the motions were made without regard to the lawsuit and without judging Roberts’ and ORU’s innocence or guilt.
Nov. 13:
ORU says peer reviewers who visited campus Nov. 4-7 are recommending ORU be reaccredited for five years and have a follow-up visit about leadership, governance and finances in two years. ORU’s accreditation liaison says ORU will be expected to make progress in those areas.
Nov. 14:
ORU and administrators ask the court to quash the subpoenas, saying the professors are seeking irrelevant information.
Nov. 14:
Richard Roberts tells tenured faculty members he does not want to be president forever but would appear to admit wrongdoing if he stepped down now, a professor says.
Nov. 15:
ORU’s top academic administrator Provost Mark Lewandowski offers his resignation to the board of regents, saying he can’t “in good conscience” continue in his job if Richard Roberts is reinstated as president.
Nov. 16:
Roberts says in an interview he heard a prophecy that he will enter a “new level of ministry” this year, perhaps as chancellor or spiritual leader of ORU. He also says he will continue to work on television, regardless of whether ORU owns the TV station.
Nov. 19:
About 80 percent of full-time faculty members vote that they do not want Roberts to continue as president.
Nov. 21:
A former ORU accountant sues ORU, Roberts and others, saying he was wrongly terminated because he wouldn’t stay silent about misreporting financial information.Two students sue ORU, Roberts and others, one saying his future degree has been devalued and he has been robbed of career opportunities, and the other saying he is unable to complete his degree because allegedly unqualified professors are now teaching his classes.
Nov. 23:
Roberts sends a letter to the board of regents, resigning immediately as president.
Nov. 26-27:
ORU board of regents is scheduled to meet and to decide how to search for a new president.
Dec. 11:
Tulsa County District Judge Rebecca Nightingale is scheduled to consider defendants’ requests.
—Compiled by World staff writer April Marciszewski
Campus voice
What ORU students are saying about Richard Roberts resigning his position as university president:
“I think when everything comes to light, they may just want to change the name and start over.”
GeordanTaylor, former ORU student
“I always tell people the faculty and students are what made my time at ORU worthwhile. It wasn’t the Roberts name.”
Sheldon Yoder, ORU alumnus
Compiled by World staff writer Randy Krehbiel
April Marciszewski 581-8475
april.marciszewski@tulsaworld.com
By APRIL MARCISZEWSKI World Staff Writer
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Joe-Allen Doty
, Tulsa, Oklahoma (11/25/2007 11:00:36 AM)
The following quote is from NewsOK dot com article "Where do the regents' loyalties lie?" today: "Even though Richard may have resigned from ORU, he is still very much in charge of ORM, (Oral Roberts Ministries) which owns ORU,” said Tim Brooker, one of the three former professors who sued Richard Roberts and the university for wrongful termination last month. "Were they to be separated, it would become God's university and not the Roberts' university.”
Report Comment
Joe-Allen Doty
, Tulsa, Oklahoma (11/25/2007 11:03:11 AM)
What drizzle? I am less than 3 miles from ORU and it's not doing anything at the moment.
Report Comment
escott
, hooville, VA (11/25/2007 11:03:22 AM)
Well may your barrel be pressed down and runneth back over Mr. "alumni do give," but the simple REAL FACT is that ALUMNI DO NOT GIVE to ORU.
Anybody who tells you differently cannot back that grotesque misrepresentation with facts. (They've hidden it for years.... If you really were an alumn, you might have wondered for years why the Alumni board kept couching their fundraising pleas with vapid words like, "the more of you who give, then the better we look to potential foundation supporters."
Yet when we asked for REAL stats as to just what the figures were, no answer would be given.
Now that there's a "Prague Spring" exploding on the Alumni board (and in other blogs), finally, those of us who care are finding out more and more of the sad truth -- that nothing has changed -- and that in many ways things are worse.
By the way, I'm among those who are counted has having given a few dimes -- because my Chase/ORU credit card credits ORU (not OREA) with a miniscule fraction rebate of my purchases.
If RR is now made "Chancellor" of ORU, then I'll cancel that card and maybe even finally mail back my diploma....
Report Comment
fromer employee
, tulsa (11/25/2007 11:04:37 AM)
ORU needs to do what the univ. of okla. did when it looked for a new president. They got es U.S. senator David Boren. Of course it was easy since it was his dream job. The point being- get a well known NAME person of high moral character with myriad contacts in all phases of bussiness and yes, that dirty word, politics. Pres. Boren used his contacts to raise more money in less time than any university in the country. A good president will have to do this too. Pay your courent bills, pay off the debt and for Gods sake, replenish the endowment that Oral gutted to pay for that Gutless idea- The City of Filth.
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qqq
, (11/25/2007 11:07:21 AM)
About the lawsuits,
When you sue, you worry about who has "deep pockets", who has money to pay a settlement. I think there is a mixture of motivations in the various lawsuits, some of which are financial, and some of which are not. At this point it is not clear which are which. In the case of the original 3 plaintiffs, the objective should be to get ORU, and perhaps the BOR, dropped as a named defendant. The lawsuit can go on against RR, LR, OREA, etc. They have deep pockets enough. The other individuals do not have deep pockets, they are partly named so there is pressure on them to come forward with information. The same idea might work with the other lawsuits. I think the student lawsuits might get dropped if there are changes within ORU. In any case I don't believe the dollar amounts are large. The accountant might want to return, if that is appropriate, probably with back salary. What is important in this suit is the way it meshes with the original lawsuit. The dollar amount of damages is probably not large. I assume Richardson will want to be paid. I hope he would also go along with dropping some defendants.
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Richard's Devotional Thought for the Day
, (11/25/2007 11:09:21 AM)
Sunday , November 25th, 2007 Daily Guide to Miracles from Oral Roberts Ministries
-
Facing the Lions’ Den
Richard Roberts
-
We all go through times of trouble when we feel as though we’ve been thrown into a den of hungry lions. That literally happened to the prophet Daniel.
-
The Bible says Daniel had distinguished himself above the king’s governors. He had an excellent spirit, and the king considered placing him over the empire as his administrative officer. Because of this, the governors hated Daniel. So they devised a plan to trick the king into decreeing that no one could pray for thirty days. Anyone who disobeyed would be thrown into a den of lions.
-
Daniel paid no attention to that decree, and he continued to pray to his God as usual. The prophet’s actions were reported to the king, who soon realized he had been tricked, but he had to keep his word. Much to his chagrin, he had Daniel thrown into the lions’ den. But God delivered Daniel! He sent His angel and shut the lions’ mouths (Daniel 6:22 nkjv)! Verse 23 says that Daniel came up out of the den without any harm or injury because he believed in his God!
-
You may be facing a lions’ den right now. It may be a lions’ den of fear, discouragement, or depression. Perhaps it’s a den of sickness or debt. But when you stand strong in your faith and obey God’s Word, you have a Bible right to expect God to fulfill His Word. He has the power to deliver you just like He delivered Daniel!
------------------------------------------
My Declaration of Faith for Today
Believing Your Word, Lord, I stand strong in my faith, knowing I have a Bible right to expect deliverance when I need it.
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OHMYGOSH
, (11/25/2007 11:09:43 AM)
Yes, ORU needs a Presidnet Boren (hand over heart, tear in my eye, sniff, sniff)
-
The problem is whether or not they can get someone the caliber of President Boren to accept the job...
Report Comment
dtaylor
, (11/25/2007 11:10:23 AM)
87. its cold. but i have the fire burning. gotta get my mind off of it though, stuff makes me crazy. haha
Report Comment
Joe-Allen Doty
, Tulsa, Oklahoma (11/25/2007 11:13:07 AM)
An 18 year old not living at home can do anything he wants to do legally. Of course, that rules out the consumption of alcoholic beverages here in Oklahoma and going to clubs where it is served.
. . . I used to have a MySpace account and the official Oral Roberts University MySpace group was being headed at the time by a student who last spring was studying in France. She allowed a guy who claimed to be enrolled in every college and university in NE Oklahoma post a message about a party held about a mile north of ORU at a nightclub and supposedly it was a special invite to ORU students only to join the regulars.
. . . The odd thing is that the guy claiming to be a student at ORU (as well as TU, etc.) was supposedly seen in classes at ORU by current students at the time.
The student moderator/monitor approved of off-campus partying and drinking by ORU students apparently.
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#91 escott & others claims
, (11/25/2007 11:16:28 AM)
Claims made that the alumni bulletin board is exploding with hundreds of people are false. Out of the hundreds that are members, there are only a handful of people posting. The handful of people posting negative things are the same ones that are here at the tw comments blogs.
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there IS justice in the world
, norman (11/25/2007 11:17:43 AM)
#93, qqq, at least one of the professors (I can't speak to the rest because I did not see the news reports about them) is suing for only $20,000. Unfortunately in our judicial system, you have to sue for money or damages in order to right a wrong. I would bet these folks are not interested in money, and would agree with you that the actual amounts awarded, if any, would be small. Besides, this lawsuit could take years and the plaintiffs could tie up years of their lives and loads of their own money in brining this to court. It's too bad that money has to be the name of the game....in most endeavors...I think you may very well see a revolving door of defendants before all is said and done. Until the criminal code becomes an avenue to seek relief from these shysters, the civil code will have to do.
Report Comment
qqq
, (11/25/2007 11:17:45 AM)
I am delighted that the faculty are talking to each other. I certainly don't blame them. Their entire careers are on the line here. In fact, it would be great if they could come to a solid consensus about what would constitute appropriate changes at ORU. If I were on the BOR I would want solid information about what the faculty is thinking. Voting for an outcome that causes the faculty to leave is no solution.
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#97 Joe-Allen
, (11/25/2007 11:20:57 AM)
Your comments demonstrate exactly why the loss of those types of students at ORU would be no great loss. They don't add to the mission of ORU, they detract from it. I keep reading here about a housecleaning which should include them.
Report Comment
Joe-Allen Doty
, Tulsa, Oklahoma (11/25/2007 11:21:50 AM)
Since the BOR is being sued, too, one has to remember that most of the Word of Faith preachers on that board have ministries which rake in millions of dollars every year. I say that it was those WOF preachers giving around a million dollars to ORU bought their honorary doctorates and bought their positions on the BOR.
Report Comment
qqq
, (11/25/2007 11:24:00 AM)
There IS justice,
Frankly, those dollar amounts are just placeholders, not limits. If the amount sought is to small you get put in small claims court. All the lawsuits are specified in about this way:
"Plaintiff seeks actual damages in excess of $10,000. punitive damages in excess of $10,000, attorney’s fees, court costs, prejudgement interest arid any further relief that the court deems just and equitable."
Report Comment
ORU CLASS '92
, (11/25/2007 11:24:16 AM)
REPLY:51. 11/25/2007 9:12:07 AM, GET A LIFE, "YOU PEOPLE ARE CRAZY!"
And after those remarks you are clearly an IDIOT.
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qqq
, (11/25/2007 11:25:39 AM)
escott,
The number I remember seeing for alumni giving was 6%. Where did you get the 4% figure?
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Joe-Allen Doty
, Tulsa, Oklahoma (11/25/2007 11:26:54 AM)
The "Seven Deadly Sins" was made up by the Roman Catholic Church. There is no such thing as "Seven Deadly Sins" in the New Testament, not even in the RCC Bible.
. . . According to my "educated as a Biblical theologian knowledge," the only deadly sin, aka "sin unto death," is the "Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit." All of the other sins are forgivable.
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Joe-Allen Doty
, Tulsa, Oklahoma (11/25/2007 11:31:59 AM)
When I was a graduate student living in the EMR dorm at ORU, I had a private phone line which I paid for out of my own pocket. I don't know if DSL through AT&T is available on the campus now; but, still a student could have an AT&T dial up internet account and read/see anything on the internet that they want to see.
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OHMYGOSH
, (11/25/2007 11:33:53 AM)
Joe-Allen: In your opinion would all this prosperity gospel manipulation be "blasphemous?" I have always wondered that...sincerely.
-
I think it's dangerous ground to give money with the intent of receiving monetary rewards. Tithe should go toward spreading the Gospel, caring for the poor, missions and maintaining the church/pastor, etc. JMO
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ORU CLASS '92
, (11/25/2007 11:35:27 AM)
If the BOR puts in Billy Joe "missionary position" Daugherty as president, and Puts in Richard as chancellor we are screwed as an University.
Oral should have 'called in his chips' with all the WOF BOR years ago who used him to grow their ministries, now many of them sit on the BOR and give their paltry $10,000, but have amassed personal fortunes on the back of their "ministries", yet have not done a thing to help ORU.
Trust me tommorow is do or die time, and there are no quick fixes here.
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Joe-Allen Doty
, Tulsa, Oklahoma (11/25/2007 11:36:29 AM)
Another thing about current ORU students and MySpace, a number of the ORU athletes had MySpace accounts and they even included pictures of themselves wearing their ORU team uniforms in the photos sections of their MySpace profiles. They bragged about their party lifestyles off campus, too.
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Samuel
, Tulsa (11/25/2007 11:41:55 AM)
I think "Jenks University" has a nice ring to it...
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Hugh, 3rd of Five
, hooville, VA (11/25/2007 11:42:51 AM)
Hello "Q,"
Is is 6% now, rather than 4%, if so my bad. Aren't we impressed -- that barely 5% (or thereabouts of the ORU alum have EVER given to their alma mater ? (And I checked my ORU card, it's now with BankAmrika -- originally w/ MBNA, not chase)
As for the anonymous claim that nobody is reading the alumni faceplace board, first, consider it as a "MIRACLE" that ORU hasn't shut it down yet..... (truly, the empire hasn't struck back yet)
I am curious though -- this is an interesting argument, and I can imagine that this is precisely the line that the RR regime (the tyrant's cronies) will be using -- that never mind those alumni blowhards at the faceplace, there are surely tens of thousands of ORU alumn who haven't made their voices heard.
As for the numbers, god knows.... indeed. Yet assuming your an alumn and not just a RR hack, look at the swelling number of "friends" on Joleen's list.... it's added hundreds just in the past two weeks.
When one person tried to put up a post for those who wanted RR to stay, only ONE - just ONE - a "prophet Bill" had the chutzpah to chime in on RR behalf. RR surely saw the writing on the wall. (how scriptural)
You watch, if RR is designated as Chancellor on Tuesday, the "waste products" will hit the fan. (and the prague spring at oru will again turn to winter -- and no self-respecting academic or business leader would consider serving under him)
And so it goes.
"Resistance is not futile."
Hugh, 3rd of five.
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Joe-Allen Doty
, Tulsa, Oklahoma (11/25/2007 11:44:37 AM)
If the Holy Spirit actually helped an individual believer to prosper financially, and a person said that The Satan, aka the devil, did it, that would be be blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
If the Holy Spirit performed a miracle of healing in a individual's body, and a person said that The Satan, aka the devil, did it, that would be be blasphemy of the Holy Spirit.
. . . Kenneth Copeland preaches a gospel of prosperity. Not too long ago, Copeland was holding a "Victory Campaign" (that's what they call their meetings in large cities) and a local minister prophesied that God was going to give Copeland a brand new jet plane for his ministry.
. . . Did Copeland wait for God to have someone give him that plane? No, he went to his "partners" and asked them to donate money toward the purchase of the plane "God wanted him to have."
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