jam, tulsa (11/29/2007 4:06:12 AM)

I'd like to know why Catholic Charities get ANY taxpayer dollars? And, what is the "refugee program"? Inquiring minds would like to know.

The Oracle, Tulsa (11/29/2007 4:24:38 AM)

Tax all church property.Some so called churches have vast reserves of money,gold,silver,and expensive art work.All churches should pay taxes and if the so called churches engages in politics and attempts to influence legislation,then they should be prosecuted.When they say "it ain't the money.....ITS THE MONEY..

Evelyn Patrick, Wichita Ks. (11/29/2007 4:29:38 AM)

To Randy Terrill,

It is revolting and reeks of hypocrisy that many Americans have no compassion for people whose only desire is to better their lives.

After all isn't that the reason your ancestors migrated...Oops INVADED

this country in the first place!

The practice of segregating, non-Aryan cultures for removal, and placing hurdles

for entry, is based on cowardliness, ignorance ,and racism, not any verifiable facts.

If facts were used, instead of myths, everyone would argue for a more open immigration policy, not the opposite.

oldrusty, tulsa (11/29/2007 5:13:45 AM)

As to Terrill, and his part of hb 1804,This is Pure political posturing, on his behalf, I see his attempts, engaging to run for a higher political office.No part of 1804, covers any more than is already on the books.You can Bet the Ok tax commission, collects taxes from wages earned on illegals, Not that much cash is paid for labor.The scary part is the future, not whats occurred in the past.

Bill, Tulsa (11/29/2007 5:59:49 AM)

Mr. Terriell thank you for speak up for me on this topic.

My father served during WWII, I served during Viet Nam, and now my son is

In Iraq. We have spent years protecting this country for the freedom we all enjoy.

I fail to see where this Bishop has any right to expect us to forget the law and just let anyone stay and enjoy the freedom others have paid for. I did not give years of my life so this Bishop can give away something so precious at no cost

rose, Tulsa (11/29/2007 6:15:35 AM)

Thank you Mr Terrill for making a difference.

It's not a few people trying to escape persecution or improve their lives, it's a literal invasion.

As a state and a country, we cannot continue to absorb and support unlimited numbers of people who come illegally into our country.

Again, thank you!

jam, tulsa (11/29/2007 6:16:13 AM)

#3 Evelyn, typical left-wing looneyism. They always play the race and hate cards. What about "illegal" do you not understand? The debate has nothing to do with compassion, ancestry, hate or race.

Dover , (11/29/2007 6:24:04 AM)

Evelyn Patrick, Wichita Ks., MIND YOUR OWN STATES BUSINESS. WE DONT NEED YOUR WORTHLESS OPINION. We are very grateful to you Mr Terrill for hearing the voice of Oklahomans. I am so glad you took a stand with these Catholics..Maybe we need to pull funding. I totally disagree with them getting any tax dollars.... Totally disagree

carltonplace, Tulsa (11/29/2007 7:05:15 AM)

Thanks for saying that Evelyn, I agree with you. The US needs to make it easier for people to come here legally so they can work to provide for their families, make their lives better and not live in fear of reprisal or bigotry.

This land is your land, this land is my land.

I am with Mr Terrill, South-of-Kansas (11/29/2007 7:09:30 AM)

Lets send all the illegals north to Kansas, sounds like they are welcome there.

E T, tulsa (11/29/2007 7:25:05 AM)

why is it the tulsa world referred to slattery as calling the bill imoral but terrill blasts the bishop? sounds to me like it is the other way around. the problem with slattery is he is afraid he will lose some church donations if the illegals leave. let's see if evelyn welcomes an illegal when they break into her house and demand she let them live in her house for free, make her pay their medical bills, provide them food, and make her pay their taxes for them. we are not against immigration. we are against thieves that cross the border illegally and steal our services depriving real citizens of the service they need.

Maurice, Tulsa (11/29/2007 7:26:54 AM)

Bottom line, HB1804 usurps Federal Immigration authority. These state laws have to be nipped in the bud by the nations High Court or it will become one gigantic mess across the nation where there is confusion between the many immigration laws enacted by the several states.

Immigrants will shop the states for the most favorable. It will be like slave and non slave states.

SCOTUS has to knock down unConstitutional laws like HB1804.

Terrill, in bringing this red herring, is no doubt a pawn of the elite power structure, whether he knows it or not. It is in their interest in this economy with their goughing and windfall profits and mass suffering due to increased energy and other costs to divert attention from them with immigration.

Chuck, Tulsa (11/29/2007 7:44:06 AM)

Thank you Randy Terrill.

Allen, Tulsa (11/29/2007 8:11:44 AM)

JAM, you have to be the most narrow-minded person to ever post. Your question, "Id like to know why Catholic Charities get ANY taxpayer dollars?" shows your ignorance.

Evelyn Patrick , Wichita Ks. (11/29/2007 8:15:43 AM)

I choose to ignore your temper tantrum,

as I know it is out of Ignorance you throw it. I am however going to give you a little History lesson.

Many soldiers( including immigrants )

in the U.S. armed forces have fought for freedom and many other rights we enjoy.

Contrary to what many of you might wish, these rights are for anyone living

within the U.S. (including illegal immigrants.

The American Revolution was fought by men and women who brook the laws of England, and of King George 3rd.

Had they been arrested, they would have been hanged for treason to the crown.

If breaking these laws, (laws that limit moral rights) makes one a criminal, then the Founding Fathers were all criminals.

The "American Dream" is essentially the freedom of every individual to rise as far as his abilities take him.

The opponents of immigration , however, want to repudiate that vision, by turning America into a privileged preserve for those who want the law to set aside a job for them... a job they cannot freely earn through their own efforts. A

Any immigrant who wants to come to America in search of a better life should be let in, and any employer who wants to hire him should be free to do so, especially now that unemployment rates are so low.

To the legalist however, who places law above moral right, the employer who hires as he pleases is a criminal.

He fail es to see that violation of certain laws can be illegal but not immoral.

Governments do not decide morality.

Governments behave morally when upholding moral action, and behave in morally when suppressing moral action.

Morality is based on principles far more constant and profound then the variant whims of majority votes.

The people who understood this best were those rebels (you disgrace by claiming to be patriotic and show your ignorance with your actions) who defied

the law of the day to pen these words.

We hold these Truths to be self-evident that all men are created equal,

that they are endowed by their creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among those rights are Life Liberty and the Pursuit of Happiness

To George Washington this meant...

The bosom of America is open to receive not only the opulent and respected stranger, but the oppressed and the percuted of all nationes, and religions, whom we should welcome to a participation of all our rights and privileges.

Without the use of childish temper tantrums, or rhetoric, can any of you debate this issue with anything of substance?

Doc Smarba, Broken Arrow, OK USA (11/29/2007 8:20:25 AM)

Maurice/wmcol,

How is HB 1804 unconstitutional? How does it usurp Federal authority?

Thanks,

Doc

Monty, Tulsa (11/29/2007 8:27:55 AM)

They teach a weird version of history up in Kansas.

-

"It is revolting and reeks of hypocrisy that many Americans have no compassion for people whose only desire is to better their lives." - Evelyn

-

If I were to rob a bank to, as you say, better my life why do I have to go to jail when an alien in this country illegally gets to walk free? We are both after the same goal, but why am I expected to be punished and not them? They are breaking the law as well.

mj, Tulsa (11/29/2007 8:29:59 AM)

Thank you, Randy Terrill. I don't care what his motives are if it curtails the financial & social burden on taxpayers'brought about from the invasion.

As a cradle Catholic, I'm disgusted that the church has been one of the primary conduits for the new "chosen people"...I have made the decision NOT to attend Mass for over 2 years. I'm sure the good Bishop could care less about that.

#15- Evelyn @Wichita - You s/b happy that Oklahoma law is fulfilling its purpose. I say you are welcome to any of our illegals who are heading your way....enjoy & break out your checkbook.

jim, tulsa (11/29/2007 8:41:18 AM)

#7 asks what some people do not understand

about illegal. I am a blue eyed Anglo who understands this: no person is illegal. And the

ill fated 1804 should be understood as nothing

more than an ulta-conservative position paper.

Latinas and Latinos are actually subsidizing us

Anglos and Anglas. If they are undocumanted they

pay income taxes without possibility of refund,

and they pay Social Security without hope of

ever collecting. In addition they indirectly

subsidize us Anglos by working at extremely

low wages so we can have cheap services.

The NE USA was settled (or seized from Native

Americans) by Anglos. The SW USA was

similarly siezed/settled by Latinos. They have

as much right to be here as we Anglos. We are

already a bilingual nation, it is time to officially

recognize this. The USA has more Spanish

speakers than any nation on earth. We should

be bilingual. For purposes of National Unity

it is urgent fot Latinos to learn English. It is

also important for Anglos to learn Spanish.

arby, (11/29/2007 8:41:28 AM)

Ah, poor delusional Evelyn.

You threw out the red herring early in your epistle. The vast majority of people who support HB 1804 are NOT anti-immigrant. We are anti ILLEGAL immigration. When will you and your friends learn the distinction between the two?

Only One, (11/29/2007 8:45:33 AM)

1. I do not support the Bishop on this matter and most Catholics do not either.

2. Tha Catholic Church does not in anyway profit from the illegal aliens. They do not give, but they do use the Churches Charities. No Church is dependent on the lowest 5% of its givers.

3. The Bishop is not pandering to these people because it is the fastest growing part of the Church. He is supporting them because they are part of his flock and human beings which are poor. Again most Catholics do not agree with this stance. I see it as an enabler. Send them home and they will fix their own country and I am sure the Church could assist them there.

4. $17 million dollars was raised for the new Catholic Charities Complex. $10 million of which came from other denominations. This tells me that other denominations support the work of Catholic Charities.

5. Biggotry toward Catholics is the only form of Bigotry acceptable in the lib media.

6. It is not fair to blast Catholics in general for the stance of this Bishop on illegal immigration. He has said time and time again that he supports new immigration laws that whould control the flow of illegals.

Evelyn Patrick, Wichita Ks. (11/29/2007 8:46:12 AM)

To # 11 ET tulsa

I wasnt aware we were going to change the subject and debate the atrocities your ancestors committed.

That is what you are referring to when you write of... thieves that cross the border illegally and steal the natural resources....oh (you forgot about the murder, and rape of the Indians...

and to this day deprive the real citizens of the services they need!!

Fed Up, Tulsa (11/29/2007 8:52:25 AM)

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Randy Terrill! We can already see an improvement in the illegal immigration situation in Tulsa.

---

15. 11/29/2007 8:15:43 AM, Evelyn Patrick , Wichita Ks.

"Any immigrant who wants to come to America in search of a better life should be let in"

Really, Evelyn, ANY immigrant? Are you out of your mind? Thank goodness you live in Kansas and not Oklahoma! All of the illegals looking for sympathy and someone to mooch off of should go to Wichita and live with you.

B. V., Tulsa (11/29/2007 8:57:20 AM)

Finally, something is being done about illegal immigration and not just talked about. Now if they'll just leave, it will put a smile on my face.

Fed Up, Tulsa (11/29/2007 8:57:50 AM)

#20 - arby - Watch out, arby! Evelyn might think your'e throwing a temper tantrum by calmly and logically stating your position!