Amused, t-town (11/29/2007 1:01:22 PM)

You are correct Maurice... you do not state your position. You do not open your opinion up to the scrutiny of others. Yet you have deemed yourself the "authority" to scrutinize the opinions of others.

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Yes... as Rev Orta and others have claimed, I hear you calling HB 1804 wrong and illegal. Yet, you provide no proof as to why? The federal LAWs that call for the same type of immigration enforcement aren't "immoral", "wrong" or "illegal" are they? HB 1804 doesn't counter act any of the federal LAWs... only compliments them... quit quoting the inflamatory propaganda spouted off by the media and read it for youself... tell us in your words why it is wrong?

B. V., Tulsa (11/29/2007 1:01:56 PM)

#98, I agree. Illegal Mexicans made this country great!

Will, Tulsa, OK (11/29/2007 1:07:40 PM)

It amazes em as I read more of these comments how uneducated and narrow minded some seem to be when talking about the financial and and economic borden created by illegals on our health and human services programs. I suppose none of you realizes that there has been no reseach done in this area showing that to be the case, In fact, the only official study presented thus far has been by the University of California, wherein they found when you take into account what undocumented workers pay towards taxes on wages earned and witheld by their empployers, and the extent to which they seek out and use taxpayer services (very limited btw), there is a discrepancy between what we are told and what is actually taking place. They found there is no justification for such broad statements. Even the government GAO report states as such in a broad review when the issue came up over a year ago. If you are going to hold your arguements up for fact, you best check yours before opening your mouth. Read a paper now and then, turn on the news...become informed.

mdc, Broken Arrow (11/29/2007 1:09:23 PM)

Will - don't be so ignorant. Who did all of those jobs before the huge invasion of illegal immigrants in the past 15 years? Did we not have houses built, or dishes cleaned, or yards mowed?

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The only reasons they have done those jobs for the past 15 years or so is because they were desperate and could be exploited for cheap labor. Companies could pay them less than "fair market wage" to do the work. Not becuase they have a strong work ethic... because they are deperate and scared of being deported. They have no choice but to let themselves be exploited. It's not work ethic, it's survival.

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Legal Americans have adjusted by improving their skills or education and getting better jobs with better pay. If they were unable to do so, then they suffered the penalties of exploited labor by seeing the value of their labor jobs deminished and their wages dropped.

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Let's also look at the cost that has been imposed on victims of identity theft. There are millions of victims of identity theft that have found themselves in a bind for credit or for benefits thanks to someone else using their number to get a job.

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There is plenty of proof of hospitals going bankrupt and being put in debt thanks to unpaid bills from "undocumented" individuals. One hospital in Dallas incurred a 12 million dollar debt in one year thanks to this problem... the proof is there, but you need to take you blinders off if you want to see it.

Doc Smarba, Broken Arrow, OK USA (11/29/2007 1:11:37 PM)

Dear Maurice...did you see my question to you (post 82).

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Dear Will,

1. Please state which section of HB1804 mentions race.

2. Please explain how our free market system, which has weathered numerous challenges of recession, inflation, market collapses, wars, natural disasters, and the Jimmy Carter presidency will catestrophically grind to a halt due to HB1804.

3. How many immigrants should we allow to enter legally each year? What should we do with those who refuse to follow the procedures to enter legally?

Fed Up, Tulsa (11/29/2007 1:15:59 PM)

103. 11/29/2007 1:07:40 PM, Will, Tulsa, OK

Will, HB1804 is law.

Read a paper now and then, turn on the news...become informed.

mdc, Broken Arrow (11/29/2007 1:16:06 PM)

Will - Read a paper? Wow... if you believe everything you see in the media, you a bigger idiot than I originally thought.

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History, we granted Amnesty in 1986 to 2.8 million illegal immigrants. All it did... was motivate more to come. Now we're dealing with more than 15 million. should we just keep doing this every few years?

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The IRS, Census Bureau, and many other government organizations conduct regular studies on the benefits provided to illegal immigrants, and the tax revenue created by funds paid into "fake" or "fraudulent" accounts. So, the studies are real. Yes, there are plenty of hate groups out there that spout off fake numbers to try and "scare" people. But, there are also MANY many studies that have been done by the government. They're just not as publicized because the government likes straddling the fence.

MJ, Tulsa (11/29/2007 1:21:11 PM)

THIS STORY HAS MANY COMMENTS about as much as ORU.

Didn't Jesus say"render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and to God what is God's".

Amused, t-town (11/29/2007 1:22:48 PM)

Will - is the public school system a tax payer service? Are the roads paid for by tax payers? What about free school lunches? What about forcing schools to hire Spanish speaking teachers? those all paid for by tax payers? How about law enforcement officials? WIC? Health clinics? Free immunizations? Can't hospitals use unpaid medical bills as a tax write off?

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The University of California used a very narrow set of data points to produce their "study". You might want to read a little deeper next time.

mj, Tulsa (11/29/2007 1:24:43 PM)

#93- Sara, well said. Those who don't agree with HB 1804 SHOULD leave or at the very least, be more honest about their own hatred for this country like Evelyn. There are alot of groups who feel the same...ACLU, LaRaza, Southern Poverty Law Ctr., MALDEF, LULAC. They would all welcome new membership for their subversive endeavors. Better yet, why not try to "sneak" into Mexico and see what happens.

Amused, t-town (11/29/2007 1:27:20 PM)

You guys have me concerned. I called my grandfather to find out who mowed his yard, built his house, cleaned his house and cooked his food when he was a kid (prior to the having illegal immigrants to do it).

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He just laughed at me and hung up. What ever am I going to do once all the restaurants close? I'm in deep crapola... my neighborhood has ordinances on how high my grass can be and how many leaves can be in my yard... whatever will I do?!?

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Doc... any ideas? Please advise...

Joshua, Bartlesville (11/29/2007 1:27:28 PM)

I'm from Kansas, but now live in OK.

Evelyn Patrick, Wichita Kansas.....can you please quit talking..it's embarrassing !!!!!!

TAMMY, TULSA (11/29/2007 1:29:14 PM)

i think it is wrong tear familys apart what about if there married,and there child i think you need to think what your doing to the family and what about the unpaid bills like pso gas rent from kicking immigrants out of the us and how are the family going to pay there rent and food when yu kick on of the family out and it take 2 parent to make it and u make to much to get food stamp i would like to know god bless the people family

Fed Up, Tulsa (11/29/2007 1:33:14 PM)

113. 11/29/2007 1:29:14 PM, TAMMY, TULSA

TAMMY - LEARN SOME FRICKEN ENGLISH!!! What are you even trying to say?????

Fed Up, Tulsa (11/29/2007 1:36:38 PM)

Can anyone tell what the heck TAMMY is TRYING to say?

Fed Up, Tulsa (11/29/2007 1:40:31 PM)

111. 11/29/2007 1:27:20 PM, Amused, t-town

Amused - What did we do before all the illegals came? Our state is going to collapse when they leave! I'm scared.....

Amused, t-town (11/29/2007 1:41:18 PM)

Tammy - your an idiot. I am a single father that has SOLE custody of 2 kids. I get no child support from my ex, and get no government benefits or "freebies". We make it just fine. I'm educated, and have a wonderful job (thanks to hard work and education). I have earned EVERYTHING that I have. And, I have taught my kids the same. I don't try to make a "better life" for me and my kids by taking advantage of others.

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You pay bills by working and earning income LEGALLY.

Mac, Tulsa/San Diego (11/29/2007 1:41:33 PM)

Will, with all respect you need to google Illegal Immigration Southern California if you want to flavor the magnitude of it here. I have a house in San Diego and one here. The problem with II in S. Cal is intense. Check out signonsandiego just today and you'll see the problems with gangs from Mexico and S. America of the front pages of the local sections. Cities like Escondido are downright dangerous as the crime rate is so high. One of the biggest crimes are hit and run as these people are afraid of being deported.

As was stated, these problems didn't exist 20 years ago. We taxpayers are caught in the middle of this invasion and can't even use our own emergency rooms anymore if you have a serious injury. Your only hope is to use an Ambulance.

I know because I live it 6 months of the year.

Maurice, Tulsa (11/29/2007 1:41:47 PM)

Doc, Section 2, "The State of Oklahoma further finds that when illegal immigrants have been harbored and sheltered in this state and encouraged to reside in this state through the issuance of identification cards that are issued without verifying immigration status, these practices impede and obstruct the enforcement of federal immigration law, undermine the security of our borders."

I'll say it again, enforcement of Federal immigration law, and security of our borders is a Federal issue. By the state infringing on this function with the requirements of HB1804, Federal authority is usurped.

Doc, I'm afraid you won't get this until the High Court slaps Oklahoma down on HB1804, and even then you will no doubt disagree with the decision.

Amused, t-town (11/29/2007 1:47:59 PM)

Dear Fed Up,

No worries. My grandfather called me back. He's going to come over and show me how to start the lawnmower. He says it's self propelled and easy to use. He will also show me how to use a rake, hammer, and read (so i can follow a recipe and cook for myself). He said the kids can help with the chores around the house.

I think we'll make it.

Regards,

Amused

mdc, Broken Arrow (11/29/2007 1:52:26 PM)

Wow Maurice - all that says is that by not verifying residency status when state ID's are issued, we are obstructing the enforement of federal immigration LAWs. In other words we are making it difficult for the federal government to do their job of enforcing immigration laws when we don't ensure the validity of our state issued ID's.

That is why residency status must now be verified prior to issuing a Driver's License or other state ID. That already happens in MOST states. Nothing illegal or unconstitutional about that section.

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Keep digging...

Mark, Fort Gibson (11/29/2007 1:53:08 PM)

Not one person in favor of this bill has said anything about race. What we are saying is, if you want to come into this country to earn a better life, do so by legal means, and quit costing the AMERICAN PEOPLE money by supporting you. I am sick of people saying it is racial cleansing. IT IS THE FREAKING LAW! Also, I don't feel one bit sorry for the ag sector who hired this slave labor for not having any workers. Pay a decent wage and see what happens.

Doc Smarba, Broken Arrow, OK USA (11/29/2007 1:53:52 PM)

Dear Amused (#111),

I've given your dilemma a great deal of thought over the last 20 seconds...

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1. Reasor's sells food. Cooking for yourself is another matter, but easy to learn. I started off with toast and ramen noodles, and eventually graduated to grilling and even using the oven when's it's below zero outside! Try cooking for yourself and kids. It's certainly more healthy! Make the kids do the dishes, if old enough.

2. At Home Depot, they sell this contraption called a lawn mower. It cuts grass! It's easy to use, and affords the opportunity to get outside and enjoy the weather from time to time. If you don't have time, look for a neighborhood kid to do it. You might even get lucky and find a flyer stuck to your door by some young entrepreneur offering to do cut your lawn. Pay him $40 if he does a good job for you (edging included).

Good luck!

mj, Tulsa (11/29/2007 1:56:08 PM)

Maurice - You sound like a poster child for this summer's failed "Shamnesty " bill. I suppose nothing would placate you short of amnesty for all aliens? I'm proud that Oklahoma had the "cahones" to get this law passed & can't help but wonder if your reasoning is based on more than just Fed. vs. State jurisdiction. Are you also a Reconquista ?

Amused, t-town (11/29/2007 1:56:35 PM)

Maurice... I know those are big words. Please quit twisting them. You might read that section again, I think you missed the intent of that verbage. It basically says that we are impeding the federal government's ability to enforce immigration laws when we don't verify residency status prior to issuing state ID's (DL's, etc.). Nothing about enforcing, or overstepping federal laws. Also, nothing about side stepping "due process".