Fifty Dollar Fine, (12/19/2007 3:04:45 AM)

From the article: " The spiritual connection "

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LOL! whatever that is supposed to mean.

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"between the two entities will remain, Pearsons said. The board decided Tuesday to allow the Abundant Life prayer group, which is part of the Evangelistic Association, to remain in ORU's Prayer Tower, he said."

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In other words, NOTHING changes, just as some of us keep saying.

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"The Prayer Tower is at the heart of the campus," he said "Prayer is and always has been at the center of this university."

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Yay, a magical building for magical "miracles", just send in your magical money and presto-change-o, it's MAGIC.

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Come on, people. No thinking person can possibly believe this hokum.

Jack Evans, (12/19/2007 4:07:49 AM)

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THREE MAKE-OR-BREAK ISSUES

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"ORU has refused to release the findings from an outside investigation of the school's finances but said reforms stemming from the investigation are in the works."

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Comment: Until those "findings" are released there will be the appearance of COVER-UP instead of CLEAN-UP/

If it was a clean report, they'd get it out in justification.

Too much is still being swept under the carpet. The culture of SECRECY continues unchanged.

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"The bylaws give Richard and Oral Roberts wide authority on spiritual matters, including the right to veto decisions by business regents on such matters."

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Comment:

As long as these by-laws remain there will be NO true independence for ORU. Period.

The bylaws are where the rubber hits the road. And those remain UNCHANGED.

Think CHARADE

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"14 of the 15 key officers and trustees of the Evangelistic Association are also listed as key officers and trustees of ORU, records show"

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Comment:

The CHARADE continues.

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Any true separation will mean:

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Clean up the bylaws.

Change the overlapping officers.

Keep the promise of transparency.

(Publish that secret report.)

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Then -- and only then-- will there be evidence of a CLEAN-UP,

NOT A COVER-UP.

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Given the deception and duplicity of those involved, observers should be skeptical until these CLEAR signs of change are seen ( and not just promised.)

Jack Evans, (12/19/2007 4:24:50 AM)

In anticipation of the argument such changes ( post 2) take time, consider the following:

-- ORU doesn't have the luxury of time.

There is, as Mr. Green pointed out, a crisis in confidence now.

"Gradualism," will help sink ORU.

Clear, visible steps ---as evidence of good-faith keeping of promises -- needs to be made now.

Sometimes, symbolic actions send a message of change.

-- Change the by laws

-- Change the overlapping officers

-- Publish that secret report.

Any one of those actions NOW would go a long way to showing the promise of change is more than words.

Otherwise, folks ( and Mr. Green)

-- it's all talk and inconsequential cosmetic change.

--aka "smoke and mirrors."

jam, tulsa (12/19/2007 6:25:54 AM)

Jack Evans, you hit the nail on the head in your comments. Only transparency and lots of sunlight will cure the ORU mess. When the light gets brighter, more of the BOR flim-flammers will resign. The Roberts name has to be removed from the university name to have any credibility at all. Roberts = flim-flam.

Alan Pike, (12/19/2007 7:01:40 AM)

#4

I'm afraid you're right.

There comes a time when a name is so tainted; when it bears and evokes such an overwhelming weight of baggage, skepticism and disbelief, one has to show a break with the past by changing the name.

Like it or not, believe it or not, the name Oral Roberts is beyond repair, through the sheer weight of accumulated baggage, beginning even befoe the now-infgamous " $8 million or God will kill me," episode.

The name is irretrievably, inextricably weighted down by the accumulated baggage

This, to me, is not as urgent as the 3 points Jack Evanslisted, but will have to be looked at, at some point if there is to be a truly fresh start.

John, (12/19/2007 7:33:21 AM)

All the rats jump off a sinking ship.

Same old same old, (12/19/2007 7:38:24 AM)

Redundant, repetitive, nothing new article. The TW must be really hurting to let this "journalist" put out articles with no new news in them. This is a repeat of yesterday's, and the one before that, and the one before that one. Get some new information.

Realtor, (12/19/2007 8:34:56 AM)

Just close ORU and quit the misery. I am a realtor and more than happy to sell the property.

TO: Same old same old, (12/19/2007 9:00:45 AM)

Same old same old aka TW Whiner

TW is in business as a print newspaper. TW is not in business as an internet organization. Did you pay to make your post. No! I thank TW for posting the stories on the internet late in the day before going to print in the morning.

John Thomas, tulsa (12/19/2007 9:04:48 AM)

These board members have been placed there to rubber-stamp RR. They are enablers, that also believe heads of ministries should be paid in accordance to heads of industry. Once this false doctrine has been brought to light, these board members are suddenly too busy. Good for ORU, they don't need another rich tv evangelist running the university. They need thoughtful, prayerful, business-minded persons engaged with fixing ORU. They also need some women leaders on that board too.

Alan Pike, (12/19/2007 9:04:52 AM)

#7 same old, same old

No one wants more, new information than TW.

-- If ORU lifted the veil of secrecy

-- if ORU released that secret report

-- if ORU explained where the $8 million for the Student Center went.

ad infinitum -- we'd see a lot of new info coming out.

But when the ORU iron curtain of secrecy falls, newspeople work with what they have.

And this article is news --- just probably not he kind ORU - partisans would like to see come out,

--with the people's voices expressed in comments such as these.

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The Oracle, Tulsa (12/19/2007 9:21:37 AM)

Don't you see? It doesn't make any difference who are regents.It doesn't make any difference who is President of ORU.It doesn't make any difference who is in charge of the ministry.Oral and Richard and Lindsay is still in charge and will remain in charge.It was arranged that way from the beginning.

Midwest, (12/19/2007 12:09:44 PM)

--ORU should ask to join the ECFA (Evangelical Council Financial Accountability as soon as ORU and ORM/OREA are 100% financially split.

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-- The ministries of Billy Graham, Ravi Zacharias, Charles Stanley, Chuck Swindoll, Focus on the Family, 700 club, KLove, Youth for Christ, Taylor University, Wheaton College, and even Regent University are among the over 900 members of the ECFA.

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--Tulsa has only four members in this group. Fortunately, they have two very good ones:--Blessings International (Pharmaceutical and medical supplies to Christian ministries in developing nations and John 3:16 Mission to homeless.

qqq, (12/19/2007 12:27:30 PM)

Mart Green,

It is clear to me from George Pearsons comments that the intent is to leave the Spiritual Regents in place at ORU.

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Please, only make your $62 million dollar additional donation if the Roberts family relinquish control of ORU through the Spiritual Regents.

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My suggestion would be to eliminate the Spiritual Regents entirely. Alternatively, appoint more generally acceptable theologians and remove the veto over the BOR.

Hello Dolli, San Diego (12/19/2007 12:29:11 PM)

Instead of expecting students and faculty of ORU to live up to the ORU Honor Code...They could have written the Ten Commandments...and everyone, including the OR, RR.LR,BOR, and support staff, could have signed that they would live up to that code....it's been around a long time. Now, we know that to live up to that code, one needs the power of the Holy Spirit to enable us. Everyone involved needs to read the Book of Proverbs....for it tells one how to live righteously in every aspect of our lives.

What is obvious to me is the way many of the BOR and others in ministry

violate the "spirit of the law"...when it comes to their financial records. Now that their families are secure and wealthy...perhaps they will return to preaching the Cross of our Lord Jesus Christ and applying it to their own lives. We all need to judge ourselves, but leadership. as it is pointed out in scripture, will receive

greater scrutiny and have a greater responsiblity to live lives of integrity. St. Paul said, "follow me as I follow the Lord."

dtaylor, (12/19/2007 12:59:38 PM)

hello dolly,

you are making a difference in the kingdom of god. thanks for all you have done theses may years.

dtaylor, (12/19/2007 1:02:59 PM)

correction- 'these many' years

got in a rush, haah

Rev BillyBob and Paula Lee, 77 RollsRoyce(RR) Road, Rolexville (12/19/2007 1:08:54 PM)

I want to say congratulations to all of the Board of Regents who have “effectively served” and fulfilled their duties on the BOR of ORU in this, the year of fulfillment.

May your dreams come true, and all you’ve asked for come to pass; may your life be fulfilled to the fullest.

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I want to thank all of you who gave your lucky $77 offering in 2007, the year

of fulfillment, completion, overflow, and blessing.

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Don’t forget, be sure to give your $88 offering at the first of the New Year; remember, 8 is the number of new beginnings, and 2008 is the year of new beginnings, favor,

promotion, and blessing.

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Send your final 2007 offering today to seal your favor, fulfillment, completion, overflow,

and blessing for the year 2007; otherwise, you might not get it and your breakthrough might not happen.

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Also, if you send your lucky $88 offering at 8:08am on the first of year, your setting yourself up and positioning yourself for a double impact of blessing, favor, and promotion in the year of new beginnings.

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And for those of you who send an offering of at least $888, in combination with your first fruits offering for 2008, you’ll receive our special “New Beginnings” scripture blessing ark of the covenant replica with scripture verses you can confess each day as you pray over your promotion and increase in order to seal your New Beginnings Blessings.

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Maybe you’ve been through some things in the past; maybe you’ve been through some hard times. But I want to tell you today, that this upcoming year is the year of New Beginnings, the year of blessing and favor, the year that will begin a new season and a new cycle of promotion and increase for you in your life, your family, your finances, your job, your health, and your relationships.

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So send your final year end offering of $77 today, and don’t forget to send your $888 offering at 8:08am on the 1st of the year, and be blessed as you watch your blessings of favor, increase, and promotion take place in the year of New Beginnings!

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And until then, may you be blessed with the joy and peace of the blessings of the season of the holydays, and may the greetings of the season be yours as you are blessed in abundance. Holli Happy Days!

Is This the Domino Effect?, (12/19/2007 1:24:08 PM)

Does anyone expect more resignations? If so, from whom?

Hello Dolli, San Diego (12/19/2007 1:31:17 PM)

#18-Greetings! How's the weather in Rolexville...very gr$$een, I trust. Your humor is appreciated!

MO Alum, (12/19/2007 2:11:24 PM)

Midwest ECFA would be a very good idea.

qqq - I don't really know what direction the school is leaning right now. Several people who work there say some of the leadership doesn't seem at all excited about the Green money and are not acting like it's a done deal. Speculation is they don't trust him to continue the vision or some such thing (or they are being asked to step down and they don't want to). I don't see that they have a lot options unless Pat R is for real. I don't hear anything about him. Has anyone else?

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I heard (but can't confirm) the BOR is divided and unsure what to do. Don't know if any more are leaving. They were said to be some very anti RR Regents but also some who wanted to keep him on as a Spiritual Regent (and most in the middle). I'm still not sure what an SP does. To me it seems like SR's can veto the BOR anytime they want. If so that can't continue. Or at least if I were giving 75M I wouldn't let it.

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There is said to be a group of people running around saying ORU needs to slash and burn expenses, fire staff, sell off assets, and close anything not critical. This seems very odd if you're 60 days from 75 million. But maybe the Greens are saying this is what they want or they want to pass on his money and go it alone. I have no idea.

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The endowment is said to be down to 3 million or so. I think someone said that here but I heard it from campus as well. They are saying it was "raided" to cover operating expenses. Just how bad ORU was bleeding the last 10+ years is hard to say. RR and LR's lifestyle wasn't the whole problem but it certainly didn't help.

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They are doing things to split ORU and OREA. I think (IMO) this is to fix a serious IRS issue. No one has said this except Geo P in a statement to the TW but I believe this is a real issue and they are not in compliance with an 1980's IRS agreement. So they are trying like crazy to clean this up. This a guess on my part.

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The real test for ORU is will student come? I think most of them now come from WOF. Charismatic, and Pentecostal families. I don't know if many mainline denominational Christians send very many kids to ORU. What will it take for parents to trust the school and send their kids there instead of a Baptist or state school? 120k is a lot of money for a damaged degree.

Joe-Allen Doty, Tulsa, Oklahoma (12/19/2007 2:12:57 PM)

The official street address of ORU is 7777 S. Lewis Avenue. So, wouldn't one need to send $7777.00 as an annual payment on a pledge?

A. S. Mathew, Ringgold (12/19/2007 2:20:28 PM)

Great financial clarity is expected from

all Christian organizations because the

ordiniary believers are totally confused

about the mess due to the scandals

of unethical dramas are like a soap

opera for a very long time. In certain

intervals, scandals of either immorality

or financial fraud is being repeated and

well known people make bad name for

the whole Christian community, but put

the blame on the devil. This the high

time for a house cleaning.

Joe-Allen Doty, Tulsa, Oklahoma (12/19/2007 2:20:38 PM)

One has to be older than a "kid" to attend Oral Roberts University. 18 year olds are not kids. No one sent me to ORU as a grad student. I drove my own car to the campus.

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Actually, my parents did not send me to school during my undergrad days at Northeastern State in Tahlequah. Oh, they did occasionally drive their car to take me down there; but, except for the last semester when I lived at home doing intern teaching in the Tulsa area, they only officially paid $70 toward my actual education.

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Now if we were talking about parent sending their children off to serve in foreign wars for the US Military, I would say something similar. Parents in the USA don't send their legal adult age children to the military. The government sends legal adults off to war.

Hello Dolli, San Diego (12/19/2007 2:25:19 PM)

dtaylor...Thank you for the encouraging words. Please set me straight. Are you a she or a he?

I have always assumed you were a she.