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Council votes to alter prayer policy
By BRIAN BARBER World Staff Writer
Published:
1/25/2008 1:21 AM
Last Modified: 1/25/2008 1:21 AM
The change will allow specific gods to be named in premeeting prayers.
Tulsa's City Council voted Thursday to change an unwritten policy so that people can name a deity when praying before the council's regular weekly meetings.
pu,UFslams In other business, the council asked the city attorney to draft the legal framework for a capital needs endowment for the new BOK Center.
The council's previous prayer policy, which prohibited the use of the name of Jesus, Allah or other religious figures, had prompted complaints.
Councilor Rick Westcott, who sponsored the change along with Councilors Bill Christiansen, John Eagleton and Cason Carter, said it was warranted because of Tulsa's rich history of a variety of faiths.
"I think it's important for this council to open this meeting with prayers that allow people to express the fullness of their faiths," Westcott said.
The change passed by a vote of 7-2, with Councilors Dennis Troyer and Jack Henderson opposing it.
Both argued that the policy should not be changed.
"We might be opening Pandora's box if we go in this direction," Henderson said.
"There's going to be a lot of people who will come in here and pray in the name of whoever, and it's going to offend some people."
The change will allow the prayer leader, who is different at each meeting, to use the specific name of his or her god within the prayer, so long as it is not used to proselytize of disparage any other belief.
Prayer leaders must be from a recognized congregation within the city.
If no prayer leader is available, the council will observe a moment of silence.
Councilor John Eagleton said Tulsa needs all the prayer it can get.
"I firmly believe that sanitized prayers to a generic deity don't really serve a spiritual purpose, at least not for me." he said.
"The public square should be opened to persons of all faith to express their prayer as they have been taught and they believe should be done."
Councilor Bill Martinson said he wants to ensure that the invocations are varied in faiths so that one denomination does not dominate the prayer week after week.
"If that's not done, this issue will be brought back," he said.
The council's vote came after several people spoke against the policy change.
Attorney Keith McArtor spoke in favor of having no prayers at council meetings.
"Your job is very difficult as it is. The last thing you want to do is communicate in some way, shape or form that you are only governing for some people and not for others," he said. "Sectarian prayers, unfortunately, give that sense."
Tulsa Metropolitan Ministry Executive Director James Mishler also spoke against the change, questioning who would decide what is a "recognized congregation."
"I think the very people who have been encouraging you to make this change are going to be very uncomfortable when the priest from the Hindu temple is standing here chanting in the name of Krishna or when someone from the Wiccan community offers prayers to the earth mother," he said.
The
BOK
Center's
endowment
was passed by a vote of 6-3, with Councilors Martinson, Troyer and Roscoe Turner opposing it.
Eagleton said a vote must take place to fund the endowment, which will pay for future renovations and upgrades of the arena, now under construction downtown.
His idea is to take 1 percent of the venue's gross receipts -- about $50,000 a year based on $5 million in projected receipts -- and sock it away to cover big-ticket expenses.
Brian Barber 581-8322
brian.barber@tulsaworld.com
By BRIAN BARBER World Staff Writer
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a
, tulsa (1/25/2008 6:28:00 AM)
Congratulations. That was the stupidest decision you've ever made. Jeez, here I am defending you guys all the time and you go and do this.
Is there no intelligence at all on the council??
Report Comment
R.D.
, Tulsa (1/25/2008 6:36:31 AM)
Religion is DIVISIVE! Church and State should be seperate.There are plenty of tax free churches around here that people can go to pray. This is rediculous. Take care of the cities business and go to your church and pray on your own time. Religion is going to be the fall of this country someday. You can't make christians in their own church agree on anything.
Report Comment
CG
, Tulsa (1/25/2008 6:38:44 AM)
Here's an idea: Do some work improving Tulsa, Rick, and less time praying, or arguing about praying. What does this even matter? There are still trees scraping my car when I drive down the street, for crying out loud. Bunch of idiots wasting everyone's time. Tulsa is embarrassing more and more often nowadays.
Report Comment
mike
, tulsa (1/25/2008 6:41:25 AM)
pro prayer or not this is the most extensive waste of time the council has ever made on any subject! Can we please get down to real city business!
Report Comment
Graychin
, Eucha (1/25/2008 7:52:49 AM)
I can't wait for the shinola to hit the fan when someone offers up a prayer to Lord Krishna, Allah, Zeus, Satan, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. What fun!
Perhaps this is what Jesus had in mind when he told us not to pray in public, but rather in our closets? (Matthew 6:5-6) And not to babble endlessly "as the pagans do."
Report Comment
osufan
, Tulsa (1/25/2008 8:58:12 AM)
Hey Roscoe! I thought you needed a grocery store. I can not believe you did not vote NO on this prayer issue. How is this helping your district? I feel sorry for your district and the city of Tulsa. You guys make me wanna puke! Oh and you guys wanted a raise some time ago? Get a real job!
Report Comment
HELEN
, TULSA (1/25/2008 11:32:37 AM)
Councilman John Eagleton was right when he said Tulsa is in need of a lot of prayer but God is not going to listen unless prayers are prayed in the Holy Name of Jesus, His Son. The Bible, the living Word of the only true God, says Jesus is the only way...No one comes to the Father EXCEPT throug me..John
14.6.
Again, it all hypocritical pretense from people who are ignorant of Holy Scripture.
Report Comment
RMS
, Tulsa (1/25/2008 11:44:59 AM)
Tulsa needs people with good business acumen,and a regard for the citizens that they are supposed to represent. Prayer may not help our City, but surely it cannot hurt! I would request those offering prayers to keep them short,and not to give a mini sermon as some tend to do.
Report Comment
Eric
, Tulsa (1/25/2008 12:25:44 PM)
I read this report in the paper early this morning, and then heard Councilor Westcott express his viewpoint on KRMG around 6:45a.m.
When asked about inclusion of all faiths, Westcott explained his position by saying something to the effect that he didn't want to exclude the "faith of the people of Tulsa".
Now, I don't know about you, but I took that to mean Westcott believes that Tulsa is a 100% Christian city.
Well, last time I checked, we have quite a few faiths other than Christian.
I, myself, am Jewish.
My wife is Christian.
We both agree that the City Council decision was not one of wisdom.
I'd go so far as to say it was a decision of self-righteousness.
If Westcott and the others really wanted to do this "...because of Tulsa's rich history of a variety of faiths.” they would have respected those faiths by not opening up this can of worms.
I pray (to my deity) that the council realizes the error of this decision.
Report Comment
mike
, tulsa (1/25/2008 2:33:23 PM)
Helen, Holy scripture according to whom? you pompous Christians give religion as bad a name as the islamist.
There is no need for prayer at a totally government function. It is the attitude that you portray as being the "only way" that turns so many people off.
Report Comment
R.D.
, Tulsa (1/25/2008 2:49:49 PM)
Well said Mike!
Report Comment
Elmore James
, (1/25/2008 2:55:43 PM)
NO PRAYER TAX!!
Report Comment
carltonplace
, Tulsa (1/25/2008 9:12:28 PM)
OMG James that is funny!
Report Comment
R.M.
, Baltimore (1/25/2008 9:38:35 PM)
God intends for prayer to be the means of obtaining His solutions in a number of situations:
Like Preparation for major decisions (Luke 6:12-13). If you think you do not need prayer or God. You are walking on this earth with no meaning...an empty person. Shame on you Mr. McArtor.
Report Comment
mike
, tulsa (1/26/2008 7:06:41 AM)
oh i beg your pardon mr RM from Baltimore, My life is very full with all the things that my family, friends and I have accomplished. We don't give credit or think we owe it to anyone as no one "miraculously" or in any other way helped us. If you have to lean on some thing for your existence it appears that you are th empty with nothing inside of your self.
Report Comment
mark
, OKC (1/26/2008 7:46:33 AM)
prayer has no place in any government function. that's an important tradition in our country that zealot christians are trying to destroy. washington, jefferson, franklin, and all our forefathers are turning over in their graves as we destroy the place they worked so hard to build. they built it respecting religious beliefs as personal and having no place in the public forum. and to the guy from baltimore!!! we will take no advice for our tulsa from the murder capital of america. your city is full of hate and obviously your prayers are of no value.
Report Comment
ChristopherBlackwell
, Deming, NM (1/26/2008 9:21:54 AM)
Oh boy wait to the first Satanist wants to give a prayer to Satan. Turn him down and then the lawsuits begin to fly and the meetings will turn into chaos. Have fun but don't expect to get much business done and you will lose the court suit.
Report Comment
Larry
, Indianapolis, IN (1/26/2008 10:23:31 AM)
First of all, religion has no place in any government function. Government should never even give the impression that they favor one religion over another. When Thomas Jefferson first used the term "separation of church and state" it was in a letter replying to a Baptist minister who was concerned that Baptists would be discriminated against under our then new Constitution. Remember, the only way you can ever be certain that government won't ever (now or in the future) discriminate against your religion is to keep religion out of government completely.
Now, if they truly allow ALL religions the right to have someone offer a prayer to their deity without ANY discrimination, then this wouldn't be so bad. However, they say that only the only ones who can do this will be someone from an APPROVED denomination. Who decides this? Someone in government. Therefore, you have the government deciding what is and is not a valid religion. Do you trust the government? If you trust the current government, will you always trust whatever government you may have in the future? If not, the best thing is to not allow this at all.
Remember, Jesus himself said to not be like the hypocrites who pray in public. He said that they have had their reward. Meaning that they've gotten their reward in this world and God won't be giving them any more.
Report Comment
Ron Pittser
, Tulsa (1/26/2008 6:39:15 PM)
This decision is probably one of the silliest in the history of Tulsa. Why do we even NEED a prayer in the first place. Pray, anytime, anywhere in the privacy of your home, office, car, whatever but give everybody else a break and let the folks who arent the same faith as you off the hook for straightening you out on this issue. Some folks on this thread seem to think their god is the right god and the only one true path to salvation and THEIR good books prove it. Sigh ... isnt anyone living in the 21st Century in Tulsa going to say enough of this superstitious claptrap and become a voice of reason in this town?
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