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Employer: 1804 leads to federal violation
 
By OMER GILLHAM World Staff Writer
Published: 2/15/2008  1:03 AM
Last Modified: 2/15/2008  1:03 AM

Oklahoma's new law against hiring illegal workers will devastate businesses, which could be forced to break a federal law to comply with the state statute, one employer claims.

Michael Webb, president of Muskogee Bridge Co., said his company will be forced to curtail jobs and spend thousands of dollars verifying employees because of House Bill 1804.

Additionally, HB 1804 will place employers in the precarious position of violating federal immigration laws if they abide by the state law, Webb said.

''We are being damaged already, but the biggest exposure is that we are being asked to violate federal law,'' Webb said. ''We cannot discriminate against or racially profile anyone based on state law.''

Muskogee Bridge Co. is a $40 million company, employing 225 people, many of whom are seasonal workers, Webb said.

The company has 14 construction contracts with Oklahoma, including a major contract to renovate Interstate 40 in Oklahoma City, court records show.

To verify an employee's legal status through HB 1804, the employer can use several options, including the Social Security Number Verification Service; the Basic Pilot Program, also known as E-Verify; or a third-party equivalent.

Webb said that using these systems will be cumbersome and will surely cause work delays and drive up contract costs.

''The complexity of verifying a worker as legal under these systems will be extremely time consuming

and problematic for our company,'' Webb said. ''This is the federal government's responsibility.''

These worker-verification programs have varying degrees of accuracy, according to court documents that support an injunction against HB 1804.

Between June 2004 and March 2007, employers made 3.5 million attempts to verify the eligibility of a worker through the Web-based Basic Pilot Program.

Of that number, 744,000 involved a Social Security number that was used multiple times. That's 21 percent of the total.

Not all of the duplications were deemed to be identity fraud. However, it is believed that thousands of the duplications were for undocumented workers using other people's Social Security numbers to meet the requirements for employment, records state.

Webb is one of several employers who supports a federal lawsuit to stop implementation of key elements of HB 1804.

The lawsuit states employers have no illegal workers but still will be irreparably harmed by the law's employee-verification requirements.

The U.S. Chamber of Commerce filed for a federal injunction in federal court in Oklahoma City on Feb. 1.

The U.S. Chamber has joined the Oklahoma City and Tulsa chambers to sue the state over its immigration-reform law.

The lawsuit targets specific aspects of House Bill 1804 that will take effect July 1 and primarily affect private employers, said Rep. Randy Terrill, R-Moore, the main author of HB 1804.

Until the contested provisions of HB 1804 take effect in July, private employers currently verify worker eligibility through I-9 forms laid out by federal law, Terrill said.

All Muskogee Bridge employees have filled out I-9 forms with accompanying documentation, Webb said.

Besides prohibiting the hiring of illegal immigrants, the new state law requires proof of citizenship to receive certain government benefits and makes it illegal to knowingly transport illegal immigrants.

Through the injunction, the U.S. Chamber is seeking to stop the implementation of two sections that deal with private businesses and contractors.

The lawsuit challenges a requirement that employers doing business with the state use the federal government's voluntary experimental program for verifying work eligibility.

It also challenges requirements for businesses to verify the work status of individual independent contractors to avoid state tax penalties.

Terrill said Oklahoma's contractors are hooked on cheap illegal labor and are making excuses to avoid using a workable system.

''The system is not cumbersome,'' Terrill said. ''It is total and absolute nonsense to say it is. We did a demonstration at the Capitol, and it took less than a minute to obtain the verifications.''

Additionally, Terrill said employers using the system are held harmless for any mistakes or data-entry errors involving the system.

''The database is phenomenal now, and it will only get better," he said. "There is no downside for the employer if there are errors.''


Omer Gillham 581-8301
omer.gillham@tulsaworld.com

By OMER GILLHAM World Staff Writer

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Report Comment
BOB, TULSA (2/15/2008 1:34:49 AM)
I DON'T SEE WHY EVERYONE IS COMPLAINING EVEN IF THE BILL DID NOT EXIST THEY WOULD BE BREAKING THE LAW ANYWAYS BY USING ILLEAGELS.THE LAWS WERE THERE ALL ALONG. OKLAHOMA JUST WANTS YOU TO DO YOUR JOB AND HIRE LEGAL PEOPLE.YOU KNOW IF ALL THE ILLEAGELS THAT WORK IN THIS COUNRTY PAID TAXES LIKE WE DO THEN MAYBE WE WOULD NOT NEED LAWS LIKE THIS. oR JUST GET LEGAL INSTEAD OF HIDING OUT HERE.
. SO STOP COMPLAINING. A PERSON WHO IS COMPLAINING IS SOMEONE WHO DON'T WANT TO PAY THE HIGHER WAGES TO GET THE RIGT PEOPLE. HE HAS BEEN ENJOYING THE GOOD LIFE BY HIRING CHEAP LABOR PROBABLY FOR CASH ALOT OF TIMES.
GIVE IT A REST.
Report Comment
ann, westville (2/15/2008 5:01:55 AM)
How can an illegal get hired so easy and not an american citizen? my husband has put in applications to these so called companies that hire a large amount of illegals and he has not even got an interview yet and he has all his paperwork ready.
Report Comment
jam, tulsa (2/15/2008 5:49:09 AM)
If you can't compete in a business without hiring ILLEGALS, you should NOT be in business in Oklahoma...period. Try paying decent wages or find a different line of work. If you continue to hire ILLEGALS, hopefully you'll get busted and pay the price for your crime.

Companies like Muskogee Bridge Co are ILLEGAL immigrant magnets that exploit cheap labor and continue to draw the ILLEGALS who bring crime, drugs, and exploit our social services.
Report Comment
America first, (2/15/2008 6:25:01 AM)
Thier seems to be a trend here, the illegal employers sure want this law over turned. And doc, ya anchor baby, why haven't you posted yet?
Report Comment
Dover, (2/15/2008 6:25:51 AM)
no wonder are bridges are in terrible shape
Report Comment
America first, (2/15/2008 6:27:15 AM)
AND PEOPLE DON'T FORGET DO NOT EAT AT MEXICO LINDO, EL TEQUILA OR AGAVE THE OWNERS HIRE ILLEGALS AND THEY WANT 1804 REPEALED.
Report Comment
a, tulsa (2/15/2008 7:03:29 AM)
If you'll read the article you'll see that they say they don't have any illegal employees, what they are challenging is the confirmation process on all their employees. Having worked with government before, I really can't take seriously Tirrel's claim that the process was fast and easy. Has anything connected with the government EVER been fast and easy??
Report Comment
Charles, Tulsa (2/15/2008 7:07:49 AM)
Webb will do anything to preserve his cheap labor illegal alien slave workforce.This is part of a concerted Chamber instigated campaign.Webb and his ilk at the Chamber will prostitute and say anything in their pursuit of maximum profits.What a bunch of sicko slime bags.
Report Comment
John, Tulsa (2/15/2008 7:18:16 AM)
Webb -If you don't want to pay LAWFUL workers a decent wage -get out of the state.We don't want scum like you polluting our state. All you care about is cheap illegal alien labor.These pigs will do anything for a buck.
Report Comment
E T, tulsa (2/15/2008 7:24:55 AM)
Since when did illegal aliens become seasonal workers. Michael Webb admitted he hires illegals over qualified American citizens. He apparently is very stupid with his comment about discriminating agains race. He can hire all the legal mexicans he wants, it is the illegals he hires that violates the law. you are not discriminating Michael Webb when you don't hire an illegal. You are viloating the law when you hire an illegal over a legal person. that is discriminating. if Michael Webb is that stupid over the laws then he should not be in business.
Report Comment
Stephanie, Tulsa (2/15/2008 7:35:19 AM)
"Seasonal workers"=Mexican illegal aliens.Webb is the shill for the Chamber.This clown admits to using "seasonal workers".What some people won't do for a buck.
Report Comment
More info, Tulsa (2/15/2008 7:45:54 AM)
Guilty Plea in Actress' NYC Slaying
Feb. 14, 2008, 5:02 PM EST
NEW YORK (AP) -- A construction worker who admitted strangling actress Adrienne Shelly while robbing her apartment and then hanging her body to make it look like a suicide pleaded guilty Thursday to manslaughter.

Diego Pillco, 20, admitted he killed Adrienne Shelly, 40, in her Manhattan flat after going through her purse. He was promised a sentence on March 6 of 25 years in prison.

State Supreme Court Justice Carol Berkman said Pillco, who is from Ecuador, South America, and is in the United States illegally, is subject to immediate deportation upon release from prison.

Report Comment
EC, (2/15/2008 7:54:43 AM)
The State of Oklahoma and the Federal govenment should discontinue allowing Muskogee Bridge Company to bid any projects as long as he fails to comply with the law.

Companies who openly hire illegals are addicted to the low-wage workers who infiltrate our economy. Most are illegal. These companies know it and turn a blind eye. Employers like Michael Webb are the recipient of the financial benefits of such activity and the Oklahoma citizens have to subsidize his business practice. Hooray for those like Mr. Terrell who take a stand against illegal activity!
Report Comment
More info, Tulsa (2/15/2008 8:01:40 AM)
CNN
PHOENIX, Arizona (AP) -- Forty-eight people accused of taking part in an immigrant trafficking ring have been indicted on human smuggling and money laundering charges, authorities said.

People cross illegally into the U.S. near San Luis, south of Yuma, Arizona.

The group brought in as much as $130,000 a week moving people from Naco, Mexico, to its center of operations in Phoenix and then to destinations across the United States, Phoenix police Lt. Vince Piano said Thursday.

Piano said the ring was believed to be one of the biggest operating in Arizona, the busiest illegal entry point into the country.

"It's not the end of the game, but we believe we have made some very important intelligence directions in the fight against the smugglers," said Arizona Attorney General Terry Goddard, whose office was prosecuting the case.

Report Comment
move to another state, Tulsa (2/15/2008 8:03:02 AM)
Most everyone who want this law repealed are businesses who want to continue to hire illegals. Make no mistake it is not about jobs and money for those people, it is about profits for the businesses. The business may have been around for a long time, but they are still fly-by-night type. Do you notice that good, solid companies are not complaining about the law. Why? Because they have always verified American citizenship before hiring. Companies like Muskogee Bridge Company probably don’t know what a computer system is. All they want to do is whine because of loss profits. They don’t care that the people of Oklahoma has to pick up the tab for the education, health, and welfare.
Report Comment
Paul, Tulsa (2/15/2008 8:05:35 AM)
The Chamber is behind all of this nonsense.Chamber=cheap labor.The World puts this garbage on the front page and is part of the campaign to repeal the popular 1804.The only people who like 1804 are the people.The elites and the multiculturalists hate 1804.All these big shots and their open border friends want is bigger profits.If they don't want to pay LEGAL citizens a decent wage--GET OUT of our state.
Report Comment
Bill Hader, Jenks (2/15/2008 8:06:09 AM)
It does not break the fed's law. You simply verify everyones status and thus you are not "profiling" any employee. It does not cost that much. Does it have a cost? sure. However it is alot less than a fine for hiring a illegal. And you know that your workforce is not criminals. Any company that is not shady would only want a law compliant workforce. Any company that says otherwise is just well "shady".
Report Comment
TOM L, KANSAS (2/15/2008 8:10:43 AM)
SEEMS LIKE ITS TIME FOR MIKE WEBB AND OTHER CONTRACTORS TO REACH IN THEIR POCKETS TO PAY AND TRAIN LEGAL WORKERS. THEY HAVE LINED THEIR POCKETS LONG ENOUGH USING THE CHEAP ILLEGAL LABOR AND NO TRAINING OF LEGAL WORKERS. WE HAVEN'T SEEN THE COST OF CONSTRUCTION GO DOWN EVEN THOUGH THEY HAVE BEEN USING THIS CHEAP LABOR FOR YEARS.
Report Comment
stonewall, freedom (2/15/2008 8:12:12 AM)
What a liar.... It takes less than 5 minutes to run a SSN# verification check through the system...

These Slave traders will say or do anything to keep the slaves here at cheap wages...

Muskogee Bridge Company should be investigated..
Report Comment
Juan, Mexico city (2/15/2008 8:35:20 AM)
Becoming Illegal---------
(Actual letter from an Iowa resident and sent to his senator)

The Honorable Tom Harkin
731 Hart Senate Office Building
Phone (202) 224 3254
Washington DC, 20510

Dear Senator Harkin,

As a native Iowan and excellent customer of the Internal Revenue Service, I am writing to ask for your assistance. I have contacted the Department of Homeland Security in an effort to determine the process for becoming an illegal alien and they referred me to you.

My primary reason for wishing to change my status from U.S. Citizen to 'illegal alien' stems from the bill which was recently passed by the Senate and for which you voted.

If my understanding of this bill's provisions is accurate, as an illegal alien who has been in the United States for five years, all I need to do to become a citizen is to pay a $2,000 fine and income taxes for three of the last five years. I know a good deal when I see one and I am anxious to get the process started before everyone else figures it out.

Simply put, those of us who have been here legally have had to pay taxes every year so I'm excited about the prospect of avoiding two years of taxes in return for paying a $2,000 fine. Is there any way that I can apply to be illegal retroactively? This would yield an excellent result for me and my family because we paid heavy taxes in 2004 and 2005.

Additionally, as an illegal alien I could begin using the local emergency room as my primary health care provider. Once I have stopped paying premiums for medical insurance, my accountant figures I could save almost $10,000 a year.

Another benefit in gaining illegal status would be that my daughter would receive preferential treatment relative to her law school applications, as well as "in-state" tuition rates for many colleges throughout the United States for my son.

Lastly, I understand that illegal status would relieve me of the burden of renewing my driver's license and making those burdensome car insurance premiums. This is very important to me given that I still have college age children driving my car.

If you would provide me with an outline of the process to become illegal (retroactively if possible) and copies of the necessary forms, I would be most appreciative.

Thank you for your assistance.

Your Loyal Constituent,
Donald Ruppert
Burlington, IA

Report Comment
j c tulsa, tulsa (2/15/2008 8:36:06 AM)
OH How my heart is breaking ! A bill that causes employees more paper work. Well thats great if it stops illegal aliens from taking jobs from TAXPAYING low paying workers. Tulsa is a great city, quick to tax every citizen to do work on the streets, parks , etc but then hire a sloppy company who goes out and hires any live body , regardless of their nationality or even request a true SSA number. They pay out and claim thre payments as cost to the project , yet the social number allows them to claim they paid out thousands to these non legal aliens. A great way to pad their own pockets. Has any of those firms not realized they could show payments on lablr that never existed? Now I bet that some of our elected officals in OKC can see it immediately, do you supose ythat is why they do not want this law? Better jobs, better theiefs. Wjhich makes more cents?
Report Comment
mj, Tulsa (2/15/2008 8:36:47 AM)
"Webb said that using these systems will be cumbersome and will surely cause work delays and drive up contract costs. "

What a dimwit ! This clown can oversee hundreds of "employees" but CAN'T pull up a website & walk through its instructions on a computer? I agree with an earlier point regarding the condition of our state's bridges. It's common knowledge that IA"s construction is often substandard and has to be redone, so why wouldn't the same lack of competency apply to bridge work?
Mr. Webb , in a bygone era you would have been the plantation slavemaster. Shame on you !
Report Comment
Juan, Mexico City (2/15/2008 8:38:09 AM)
America
Tina Griego, journalist for the Denver Rocky Mountain News wrote a
column titled, 'Mexican Visitor's Lament' -- 10/25/07.

She interviewed Mexican journalist Evangelina Hernandez while
visiting Denver last week. Hernandez said, 'They (illegal aliens) pay rent,
buy groceries, buy clothes...What Happens to your country's economy if 20
million people go away?' That's a good question - it deserves an answer.
Over 80 percent of Americans demand secured borders and illegal migration
stopped. But what would happen if all 20 million or more vacated America ?
The answers may surprise you!

In California , if 3.5 million illegal aliens moved back to Mexico ,
it would leave an extra $10.2 billion to spend on overloaded school systems,
bankrupt hospitals and overrun prisons. It would leave highways cleaner,
safer and less congested. Everyone could understand one another as English
became the dominant language again.

In Colorado , 500,000 illegal migrants, plus their 300,000 kids and
grand-kids - would move back 'home', mostly to Mexico . That would save
Coloradans an estimated $2 billion (other experts say $7 billion) annually
in taxes that pay for schooling, medical, social-services and incarceration
costs. It means 12,000 gang members would vanish out of Denver alone.

Colorado would save more than $20 million in prison costs, and the
terror that those 7,300 alien criminals set upon local citizens. Denver
Officer Don Young and hundreds of Colorado victims would not have suffered
death, accidents, rapes and other crimes by illegals.

Denver Public Schools would not suffer a 67 percent
drop-out/flunk-out rate because of thousands of illegal alien students
speaking 41 different languages. At least 200,000 vehicles would vanish from
our gridlocked cities in Colorado .

Denver 's four percent unemployment rate would vanish as our working
poor would gain jobs at a living wage.

In Florida , 1.5 million illegals would return the Sunshine State
back to America , the rule of law, and English.

In Chicago , Illinois , 2.1 million illegals would free up hospitals,
schools, prisons and highways for a safer, cleaner and more crime-free
experience.

If 20 million illegal aliens returned 'home' --

If 20 million illegal aliens returned 'home', the U.S. Economy would
return to the rule of law. Employers would hire legal American citizens at a
living wage. Everyone would pay their fair share of taxes because they
wouldn't be working off the books. That would result in an additional $401
Billion in IRS income taxes collected annually, and an equal amount for
local, state and city coffers.

No more push '1' for Spanish or '2' for English. No more confusion
in American schools that now must contend with over 100 languages that
degrade the educational system for American kids. Our overcrowded schools
would lose more than two million illegal alien kids at a cost of billions in
ESL and free breakfasts and lunches.

We would lose 500,000 illegal criminal alien inmates at a cost of
more than $1.6 billion annually. That includes 15,000 MS-13 gang members who
distribute $130 billion in drugs annually would vacate our country.

In cities like L.A. , 20,000 members of the ' 18th Street Gang' would
vanish from our nation. No more Mexican forgery gangs for ID theft from
Americans! No more foreign rapists and child molesters!

Losing more than 20 million people would clear up our crowded
highways and gridlock. Cleaner air and less drinking and driving American
deaths by illegal aliens!

America 's economy is drained. Taxpayers are harmed. Employers get
rich. Over $80 billion annually wouldn't return to the aliens' home
countries by cash transfers. Illegal migrants earned half that money
untaxed, which further drains America 's economy - which currently suffers an
$8.7 trillion debt.

At least 400,000 anchor babies would not be born in
Report Comment
arby, (2/15/2008 8:38:22 AM)
Give me a break!!!

A $40 million company and the owner is whining that he will have to spend "thousands" verifying the status of his employees.

Hint to owner- once you verify that an employee is here legally, you won't have to do so next time you employ him or her.

This is merely another instance of an employer wanting cheap, temporary labor, with few benefits, and letting society pick up the cost of benefits via free emergency room care in hospitals, etc.

The greed and stupidity factor of these employers and the Chamber of Commerce is truly incredible!
Report Comment
Juan, Mexico City (2/15/2008 8:40:26 AM)
Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." ....Thos. Jefferson ?

> A must read for every _tax paying American_
>
> **Parkland Memorial Hospital in Dallas, Texas is a fairly
> famous** *institution and for a variety of reasons:
>
> 1. John F. Kennedy died there in 1963
> 2. Lee Harvey Oswald died there shortly after
> 3. Jack Ruby-who killed Lee Harvey Oswald, died there a few
> years later..by coincidence
>
> On the flip side, Parkland is also home to the second
> busiest maternity ward in the country with almost 16,000 new
> babies arriving each year. (That's almost 44 per day---every
> day)
>
> A recent patient survey indicated that 70 percent of the
> women who gave birth at Parkland in the first three months
> of 2006 were illegal immigrants. That's 11,200 anchor babies
> born every year just in Dallas.
>
> According to the article, the hospital spent $70.7 million
> delivering 15,938 babies in 2004 but managed to end up with
> almost $8 million dollars in surplus funding. Medicaid
> kicked in $34.5 million, Dallas County taxpayers kicked in
> $31.3 million and the feds tossed in another $9.5 million.
>
> The average patient in Parkland's maternity wards is 25
> years old, married, and giving birth to her second child.
>
> She is also an illegal immigrant.
>
> By law, pregnant women cannot be denied medical care based
> on their immigration status or ability to pay. OK, fine.
> That doesn't mean they should receive better care than
> everyday, middle-class American citizens. But at Parkland
> Hospital, they do. Parkland Memorial Hospital has nine
> prenatal clinics.
>
> That's right !!!! NINE.
>
> The Dallas Morning News article followed a Hispanic woman
> who was a patient at one of the clinics and pregnant with
> her third child---her previous two were also born at
> Parkland. Her first two deliveries were free and the Mexican
> native was grateful because it would have cost $200 to have
> them in Mexico. This time, the hospital wants her to pay $10
> per visit and $100 for the delivery but she was unsure if
> she could come up with the money. Not that it matters, the
> hospital won't turn her away. (I wonder why they even bother
> asking at this point.)
>
> How long has this been going on? What are the long-term affects?
>
> Well, another subject of the article was born at Parkland in
> 1986 shortly after her mother entered the US illegally - now
> she is having her own child there as well. (That's right,
> she's technically a US citizen.)
>
> These women receive free prenatal care including medication,
> nutrition, birthing classes and child care classes. They
> also get freebies such as car seats, bottles, diapers and
> formula.
>
> Most of these things are available to American citizens as
> well but only for low-income applicants, and even then the
> red tape involved is almost insurmountable.
>
> Because these women are illegal immigrants, they do not have
> to provide any sort of legitimate identification - no proof
> of income. An American citizen would have to provide a
> social security number which would reveal their annual
>
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