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Economic impact of HB 1804 estimated
By GINNIE GRAHAM World Staff Writer
Published:
3/26/2008 12:52 AM
Last Modified: 3/26/2008 12:52 AM
The state bankers association says the loss could be $1.8 billion.
If 50,000 immigrants leave Oklahoma, the state would lose about $1.8 billion annually in productivity and wages, according to a study released Tuesday by the Oklahoma Bankers Association.
The group does not take a position on HB 1804, the state's new immigration law, said President and Chief Executive Officer Roger Beverage.
The study was commissioned after the association began hearing stories about banks seeing impacts such as loan defaults and halted housing developments.
"Bankers asked the question, 'Can we afford to do this? Does this make sense?' " Beverage said. "That is a question for the Legislature or someone other than us. It is information we think makes sense to consider. Reasonable people will disagree whether it's worth the savings."
House Bill 1804 makes it a crime to knowingly hire, house or transport illegal immigrants and took effect Nov. 1.
Economists Russell Evans and Kyle Dean, of Economic Impact Group in Edmond, wrote and researched the study. The model used is similar to one in Texas created about two years ago.
"We're not saying that it is a good bill or a bad bill," Evans said. "We have no comment on that. But from a purely economic standpoint, we wanted to see look at what the cost would be of removing them."
The Federation for Immigration Reform has estimated Oklahoma spends about $207
million a year in public funds for illegal immigrants, mainly for education, emergency health care and incarceration.
The economists assume the number to be correct, Evans said.
Between 50,000 and 70,000 undocumented immigrants are estimated to be living in Oklahoma, the study states. The study gives a range of impacts based on the number of immigrants who leave.
In the short term, the impact ranges from a $786 million annual loss if 25,000 immigrants leave, up to a $3 billion annual loss if 90,000 migrate elsewhere, according to the study.
In the long term, Oklahoma would lose between $637 million to $1.9 billion annually, the study states.
"If you don't enter the impact of losing those workers into the discussion, then I think the discussion is somewhat distorted," Evans said.
"All we are trying to provide is what the lost outcome of productivity and lost income of those workers would be."
More House Bill 1804 impact studies are expected, Evans said.
"The academic community was a little behind with everybody else," Evans said. "The bill happened so fast and became law so fast that the discussion about the impacts of the bill didn't begin until after it had been implemented and signed."
Rep. Randy Terrill, who sponsored House Bill 1804, disagrees with the study's conclusions including the impact of unemployed legal residents being able to assume those jobs.
Terrill, R-Moore, said the immigration issue is about more than just economics.
"It is about a fundamental respect for the rule of law, upholding our state and national sovereignty and about the immorality of employing cheap, illegal alien slave labor," he said in a press release.
Sen. James Williamson, R-Tulsa, also disagreed with the study. Williams said the Oklahoma economy is showing no evidence of a negative impact from the law.
Beverage said Oklahoma banks remain strong in spite of the challenges of the national credit crunch, depressed housing market, subprime mortgage meltdown and the Federal Reserve predictions that some community banks will fail in the next couple of years.
"In addition, Oklahoma banks have had to deal with the practical ramifications of the economic impact of 1804," Beverage said.
"You cannot confine the economic impact of 1804 to one sector of society or one classification of workers. Rather, it has an impact to workers in a number of different areas."
Ginnie Graham 581-8376
ginnie.graham@tulsaworld.com
By GINNIE GRAHAM World Staff Writer
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David Zaire
, Tulsa (3/26/2008 1:53:04 AM)
Ginnie - I am amazed at that word people like you have a hard time using. They are not immigrants. They are "ILLEGAL" immigrants. I also wonder if there is any tie between the rise in TB cases and the illegals coming into the Unitd States, but we would not want to suggest that would we.
Report Comment
Just wondering
, Tulsa (3/26/2008 3:51:46 AM)
If the immigrants are leaving because they are "ILLEGAL" how is this study estimating a wage that is paid under the table? Wonder what unpaid SSI and taxes are on 1.8 billion dollars? Gotta have a Social Security number to pay this in right? Since they were so happy crunching numbers, why don't they crunch what it cost Oklahoman's in Higher health care to cover hospitals not getting paid, or Insurance to cover uninsured motorist, not to mention the extra patolling that police has to do on the East Side. I don't want to hest that the illegals are law abidding citizens either. They already broke the law by being here! and #*&@ on all the other immigrants in line trying to do it correctly.
Report Comment
John
, (3/26/2008 5:47:51 AM)
Just think how much more money the state could make with other illegal ventures?
Report Comment
Tony G.
, (3/26/2008 6:11:32 AM)
First, the LEGITIMATE jobs can be filled Legal Oklahomans.
Next this study forgets to estimate the COST of illegals, with medical care
schooling and housing cost, and cost to our police force.
peersonally-I would like to see drivers license checks, and help eliminate the untrained, unlicenced drivers, before these illegals KILL more LEGAL Oklahomans!
Report Comment
observer1
, (3/26/2008 6:13:13 AM)
The ILLEGALS bring the following to Oklahoma and the US...
- Crime and gang activity from Mexico and South America
- Dope for our kids (Mexican drug cartels own the border)
- Fill our jails, schools, hospitals, and loot our social services
- Unending pockets of poverty in our neighborhoods
- Unlicensed, uninsured drivers
- Unending supply of illegal labor, deflating wages for US workers
- Security risks to the US due to uncontrolled border
US citizens are footing the bill for this nonsense. The federal government is
inept and unmotivated in controlling the flow of ILLEGALS. It's up to the
State of Oklahoma to protect it's citizens. It's a matter of State's Rights.
Support HB 1804.
Report Comment
kevin
, owasso (3/26/2008 6:15:10 AM)
This is so much bull. Is the tulsa world in love with the mexicans or what? 2 articals in 2 days about the money the state will lose if thay leave? Where is the flip side of what will be SAVED? Ive gotten the paper for the last 25 years but this has me so mad I am going to cancel the paper as its just become a liberal rag.
Report Comment
ME LIKE TACOS
, Tulsa (3/26/2008 6:32:15 AM)
These two out of work socialist that who finally recieved a state contract to write a report from one of their state working realitvies
numbers are incorrect. The three major cash flows are
Indian tribes, Oil Companies and Walmarts. Also Arvest Bank'[owned by walmarts] is the largest bank in JOKLAHOMA
These 4 busineses were not included in the report.
as they do not use illeagal aliens. i ALMOST FELL FROM MY CHAIRL LAUGHING WHEN I READ THE WORDS
OKLAHOMA ECONOMIST WROTE REPORT.
I WOULD LIKE TO SEE THE VITAE OF THESE TWO OUT OF WORK HILLBILLIES THAT WROTE THIS REPORT ON BIG CHIEF NOTE BOOK PAPER. JOKLAHOMA.
Report Comment
w. earp
, (3/26/2008 6:39:22 AM)
#6, kevin...Took you 25 years to figure out the TW is a liberal rag? At least you finally came to the correct conclusion...welcome to the other side.
Report Comment
me like tacos
, TULSA (3/26/2008 7:01:45 AM)
I read this article again.Someone call a doctor. I am laughing so hard I think I gave myself a hernia.
Report Comment
getreal
, tulsa (3/26/2008 7:02:50 AM)
Give us a beak with the illegals and drugs. Oklahoma kids stuff drugs in them and the "illegals" would be out of business if these kids had any kind of decent parenting. If Oklahoma kids can't get meth, the use paint, pot, mommie's Lortabs, freon, etc. Illegals should be arrested for drug sales and not allowed to be in the country to start.
But don't act like they are the cause. This is a demand issue and Okies are as immoral as anyone when it comes to dope!
Report Comment
kg
, Bartlesville (3/26/2008 7:37:00 AM)
7:30 in the morning and already the xenophobes are out in force. Dumb Okies. The damage to the economy from this hate law has been apparent to anyone with a mind from day one.
The real problem is two fold: 1) there is currently no legal path for these workers 2) the racist beliefs amply displayed above -and below no doubt.
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me like tacos
, tulsa (3/26/2008 7:47:48 AM)
I mde research of who this company is.
The are attached to another company as an incest cousin
to a company that gets govt loans for minorities then takes a part of the company
there companies the manage are NON SKILLED LABOR INTENSIVE.
These people are self serving with their report
and the parent company is scandolus and could not stand an audit. typical back water hillbilly BS.
Report Comment
True American
, Tuls (3/26/2008 7:49:31 AM)
How? Look at Mexifornia, the state has the largest group of illegals (est ove 10 million) and they are bankrupt because of it.
Health care system imploded, penal system imploding, can't drive a car, no room, a house that would cost 50,000 in Oklahoma would go for a million in Mexifornia due to shortages... How would it hurt????
If illegal Aliens are good for the economy, why is Mexifornia not operating in the black with a model system for everything??
OH, I know, Seaboard and Harry Coates would have to start paying legal wages, Unemployment, Workers comp and actually be competitive in their pay to attract workers. That about it????
You bleeding hearts would have us bring them in by the millions, destroy our state, and just go "oops, I guess we were wrong about this"""
MORONS
Report Comment
FIRE GUNDY
, (3/26/2008 7:52:25 AM)
#11- I agree with you. #4- reread the article. The report does include the public assistance costs, medical expenses, etc., the numbers are clearly outlined in the 8th paragraph. This is another example of people so outraged by something they really know so little about about that any constructive dialogue becomes almost impossible.
No one is saying these people aren't here illegally. The problem is that we've allowed it to happen and have integrated them into our economy. Until we can strengthen our southern border we have to find a more elegant solution than HB 1804.
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me like tacos
, south tulsa (3/26/2008 7:54:14 AM)
Your from BARTLESVILLE and calling the rest us dumb OKIES.
You idiots could not even keep conoco phiillips in your town
you must have one of a thousand nickel dime
home remodeling outfits or just on welfare and putting your 2 cents in. look at your crappy town and then call the rest of us dumb okies. good luck on your food stamp extension. laugh laugh.
Report Comment
a
, tulsa (3/26/2008 7:56:47 AM)
"This is another example of people so outraged by something they really know so little about about that any constructive dialogue becomes almost impossible. "
-What a great observation!
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FIRE GUNDY
, (3/26/2008 8:01:52 AM)
#13 True American- California is the largest State economy in the U.S. It is one of the few states that pay more to the Fed. Gov't than it receives. If it were an independent nation it would be the 10th largest economy in the world. Their per capita income and almost every other economic indicator ranks among the top 20% in the U.S. Comparing Oklahoma to California is laughable.
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True American
, Tulsa (3/26/2008 8:03:39 AM)
#14, what do you mean WE allowed it to happen???
I saw this coming with the Right to work law being passed 20 years ago to bust out all the unions...
All illegals do is strain all services and depress wages for legal citizens. Granted the employer gets rich, but what about the rest of us??
Report Comment
true american
, tulsa (3/26/2008 8:06:45 AM)
#17, You are a moron...
If California is doing so great, why is their system imploding...
With the State Senate scheduled to meet today to consider ways to pass the state budget - now 25 days late - California now is just days away from reaching the first of several critical breaking points in terms of the ability of the State to pay for critical services and supports for hundreds of thousands of seniors, people with disabilities, support workers and others.
This impact - at its worse, could result in temporary shutdowns or reductions of some programs and services - though the timing of the impact will vary depending on several factors including cash flow, ability to obtain loans to cover the period of non-payment by the State, and also when providers have submitted billings and also for what period those billings cover.
While advocates are urging people not to panic, they are also raising major concerns. [For more information about the budget, and about the Senate Republican proposals, including a copy of the proposal and graph, see CDCAN website.]
The budget delay itself could be, within days begin to have harmful impact for children and adults with disabilities, mental health needs, the blind, seniors and others - even without calculating the impact of any budget reductions to services or supports impacting that same population after a budget is passed.
Advocates are raising alerts on this issue, with one, representing and association of providers serving low income seniors wondering why the mainstream media has failed to cover that aspect of the budget crisis.
IHSS and Medi-Cal Payments to Doctors and Pharmacies Not Impacted
Certain services - such as In-Home Supportive Services that impact over 350,000 children and adults with disabilities, the blind, and seniors, and also Medi-Cal payments to doctors and pharmacies will continue to be paid because there are federal laws requiring such payments, according to state officials.
Wide Range of Services, Programs for Seniors and People With Disabilities Will Be Hit
However the State, according to state officials, will have no authority to make any further payments for programs including Adult Day Health, Home Health Agencies, institutional facilities including nursing homes, and other programs covering a wide range of services and supports critical for hundreds of thousands of children and adults with disabilities, mental health needs, seniors, people with traumatic brain and other injuries, people with MS, Alzheimers and other disorders, low income families across California.
For many organizations and individuals the actual breaking point will occur at varying times depending on when billings for reimbursement were submitted, and what periods of time are covered.
Report Comment
FIRE GUNDY
, (3/26/2008 8:10:54 AM)
#18- unfortunately we didn't pass 1804 20 years ago. In addition, our Federal Policy took a blind eye towards hiring illegals. The Rio Grand is about 8ft wide in some places, and well, millions of these people are now here, cleaning your hotel room, roofing your house, mowing your yard, etc.
At this point we have to deal with the probblem more constructively on the Federal level. It's a political hot potato. The good thing about 1804 is that the more states that pass these draconian type bills, the more pressure will be put upon the federal goverment to actually address the issue.
In my opinion, until we can secure the border we have no other choice than to deal with the very real economic ramifications.
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FIRE GUNDY
, (3/26/2008 8:15:41 AM)
#19- your first sentence represents your intellect far better than cut and pasting an article about California that makes no mention of illegals. Oklahoma's budget has busted several times over the years as well. Just Google "California Econmony" and get the facts. I'm not saying they haven't had their share of problems, it just bears no comparison to us. If a bill such as 1804 would have helped them, they would have passed it long ago.
Report Comment
Joshua
, (3/26/2008 8:15:48 AM)
Oklahoma has integrated a large number of people into its work force. Now it is expelling them. Anyone who didn't think this would cost massive bucks was simply not thinking anything through.
Howevver, the important question is not will this cost us money, instead it is will this be worth it? Personally, I don't believe it is, but then I didn't believe it was before we saw the price tag either.
Report Comment
kg
, Bartlesville (3/26/2008 8:17:10 AM)
No # 15 I live in Bartlesville - and am from a much more tolerant state. You just attack me personally rather that address the issues - race and bad law.... Dumb Okie -
Report Comment
True American
, tuls (3/26/2008 8:23:08 AM)
Just who exactly is it costing?? Hasn't cost me a dime and I suspect taxes will go down due to the state saving massive amounts of cash on Welfare, Health Care and Courts...
Going according to plan, in fact I read an article just a day ago that Tulsa's revenues are up...
Report Comment
kevin
, owasso (3/26/2008 8:26:25 AM)
#14 It does mention education,emergency health care,and incarceration
It doesnt mention the cost of food stamps.welfare,uninsured drivers,job losses,lower wages,non emergency health care, etc ,etc
Apples to apples? Dont think so
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