CurtJ, Tanana, Ak (4/4/2008 7:17:46 PM)

As a Alaska Native, having been discriminated against in both Alaska and in the Lower 48, I find it hard to believe that Native Americans are doing the same to others. First the Europeans, than Americans, enslaved, raped, murdered and committed genocide against the Indigenous Peoples of the world in order to rob, pillage, plunder and steal their natural resources and lands for European and American colonization. To the point the first documented case of Biological Warfare occurred at Fort Pitt, Pennsylvania in 1763 by the British, against the Natives in order to steal their lands for colonization.
To me, the Cherokee are being hypocritical in denying the Freedmen rights. Do they think they can change the color of their skin by scrubbing?? Racism and Predjudice should not exist at the hands of Native Americans. Not after what we've been through and are up against daily by the racist agendas of the Republican and Democratic Legislators.
Fort Pitt was renamed Pittsburgh and General Jeffrey Amherst has had numerous towns and Universities named after him. Biological Warfare meant giving Smallpox laden blankets to the Natives.

JAG, Tulsa (4/4/2008 8:43:42 PM)

I think that the blacks or african americans in congress need to get a clue. The Cherokee Nation voted on removing the black freedmen from the roles, that they should never been a part of anyway. This is a democratic society and it was voted on by the tribe. So much for the constitution of the united states. The blacks in congress didn't like the way the vote went, so now we'll try to force you hand by trying to take away your money. Sounds like dictators to me. I think that the Cherokees have the right to say who they want in the tribe, not the federal government, or the few black congressmen and women think they should run the tribe instead of it's elected officials. Let it go people. The Cherokee indians don't own the blacks anything. Many, many cherokees died on the trail of tears, so don't give that oh we are so oppressed speech that the blacks aways give. I am cherokee, but I am not part of the tribe, I can't prove it, my family never got a role number. But I agree with what the tribe did and I would have voted for it if I was in the tribe. I am not a racist, even that is what blacks would call me for my views. I have black cousins and Japaness cousins, along with the cherokee so I am far from racist. I just don;t like all the crap that alway comes from the black people about how oppressed they still are. How they are still poor and don't have jobs. I have a way to correct that. STAY IN SCHOOL, DON"T SELL DRUGS, DON'T GET INTO GANGS and PARENTS NEED TO TEACH THERE KIDS RIGHT AND WRONG INSTEAD OF TEACHING THEM THAT STEALING IS EASIER THAN GETTING A JOB AND WORKING FOR A LIVING . GET OFF WELFARE. So much for my rant. Flamers have at it and tell me how terrible I am for the way that I feel.

john , Jax FL (4/4/2008 8:45:24 PM)

nobody's being discriminated against, you have Indian blood or you don't. If you didn,t have African blood I don,t think the Goverment would let you claim to be African American, anyway their still a minority and can receive certain benefits. otherwise why would you want to claim to be a member of a race your not unless it's about the almighty DOLLAR!

OKIE, (4/4/2008 8:53:40 PM)

When the vote came about, I, too, wanted to make sure only those who are American Indian decendants, meaning those who can actually prove Indian bloodlines, and was all for voting for the amendment to cease providing the Freedmen benefits. However, the chief and those behind the bill failed to tell voters that the Cherokee Tribe signed a treaty many years ago providing benefits to these Freedmen (slaves of Indians). Although I don't like the idea of having to give benefits to those who are not true decendents, we can not go back on a signed treaty. You can bet your life, if the government goes back on some treaty signed many years ago, the tribe would go to court kicking and screaming. It infuriates me that our tribal leaders are risking have all federal funding stopped, which will affect our healthcare, food, educational programs, among so many other programs most of us desperately need. Becoming disabled about 6 months ago after having worked as a Paramedic over 16 years, many of which for the tribe, I am dependent on tribal healthcare so that I can live, not to mention receiving commodities so I have food to eat. It is inexcuseable for the tribal leaders risk so much. Of course we have to remember, those on the council are not dependent on these programs and have apparently forgotten their roots, not to mention what it is to be honorable, otherwise they wouldn't have lied to tribal members as well as going back on a treaty signed by our elders many years ago. Most likely we'll lose funding which will not only devastate those of us dependent on the programs, but also community projects such as building roads and providing monies toward education.

wmcol, Tulsa (4/4/2008 9:07:34 PM)

Freedmen have indian blood and should be entitled to tribal benefits. Honor the blood or forego the Federal money. Simple.

Every tribe should have to recognize and include Freedmen and their descendants. It is especially cruel to have an ancestor on the indian role but due to slavery there is no quantum of blood record, but the tribes know these Freedmen have the blood but deny membership on the technicality of slavery that deprived Freedmen of birth records showing amount of blood.

.

CDIB CARD, tulsa (4/4/2008 10:08:31 PM)

#5
especially cruel to have an ancestor on the indian role but due to slavery there is no quantum of blood records
////
slaves are slaves /Indians are Indians all the fives civilized tribes fought for the south and nothing has changed.
Everyone is tired of hearing what negroes want
we all want them to get a job and quit having illegitimate children
and being dope heads and violent criminals
but that will never happen
let them be the white mans PROBLEM

are you even a tribal member

or are just an unemployed socialist or even worse
a school teacher?

barney, bixby (4/4/2008 10:41:39 PM)

I once knew an african american and I think I too should get some money for the pain and sufferring I experienced by his great great great great great great grand father's struggle.

proud ndn, tulsa (4/4/2008 11:45:36 PM)

I was always told that above all, Cherokees believed in honor. They were always willing to share amongst each other. A family was only as good as their word. A family would willingly sell their last possession to meet an obligation. I guess those days are far in the past. If the Cherokees, or any other tribe wishes to exclude the Freedmen, then they should be prepared to pay the price.

To wmcol, (4/5/2008 2:25:00 AM)

To, #5, wmcol,
Hey wmcol, did you know there are around a couple of thousand Freedmen in the 270,000 member Cherokee Tribe who were able to prove they were descendants from a Cherokee and were not affected by the vote? And did you know that all others in that 270,000 had to prove the exact same thing as the Freedmen are being told to do, that they are a descendant from at least one Cherokee? Did you know there are also thousands of other African-American Cherokee Citizens in the tribe that were not affected by the vote and they are not Freedmen? And also, speaking of slaves, Indians didn't own that many slaves. Our European ancestors controlled the market on that. In fact, they even enslaved some of the Indians. Check out a little history, or go to the Cherokee Nation Web Site and read the other point of view. Get both sides before making a comment.

willie, abilene (4/5/2008 3:59:14 AM)

hears an idea how about instead of giving all that money to the cherokee nation they just take it and give to all the freedmen decenants. thus the cherokee nation has honored their end of the treaty and they can just get by like the rest of america.

john, Jax FL (4/5/2008 6:21:32 AM)

if the cherokees should accept the freedmen because they were slaves, then why doesn,t the goverment recognize all the slaves desendents owened by whites as white, then we won,t have so many minorities and they won't have such a hard time getting a job.

concerned Cherokee citizen, broken arrow (4/5/2008 1:17:40 PM)

After researching the powers of the Cherokee Nation Chief and Council, the only way for the Cherokee Nation to reincorporate the freedmen is to have a group of citizens call for another election with a NEW AMENDMENT.
As of now, the Chief and/or the Council can not UNDO what the citizens of the Nation voted for in the March 2007 election. If either the Chief or the Council did "undo" this then they would be breaking the democratically decided Cherokee Constitution.

To date, there hasn't been a faction of Cherokee citizens who have gathered a petition to go through this process -- and for Congress to resort to extortion is unjust. Congress is saying to the Cherokee Nation "if you don't do this, then this." This approach will not empower African-Americans but will hurt elders, the disabled, children and Oklahomans who live in the towns that the Cherokee Nation spurs economic development and roads/schools/water lines.

If Oklahoma got into a disagreement with Congress - they wouldn't take away our statehood. So, I ask, why is Congress taking this route? It is bullying.

We should let the courts decide these conflicts --

never?????, tulsa (4/5/2008 1:22:16 PM)

#11
Dont be trying to give those freeloaders back to us whites.
we already gave them 40 acres and a mule and they lost their
pay out in a crap game.

Hmmmm, (4/6/2008 1:32:00 AM)

Well, if Congress bullies the Cherokee Nation using the same tactics they used to make the Indians sign all these Treaties in the first place, and strips funding for the elderly and underprivileged children, then the Cherokee Nation should approach NATO for intervention. I mean, shucks, that's why we send our military to war against foreign nations, isn't it? We're trying to help the citizens of foreign nations against their dictatorial government. Hee, hee, hee. Seriously, I can't see the Congress overriding a vote of citizens. At least I hope not. That wouldn't be much encouragement to vote in any election again.

B. V., Tulsa (4/6/2008 3:05:13 PM)

#2, I am a full blood Cherokee tribal member, and I probably couldn't have said it better myself. I agree with you. Since I live in Tulsa, I don't really participate in the elections. The next time there's an election regarding Freedman, I'm voting them out if they're not Cherokee by blood. I hope there is another election so I can vote this way. I don't run around trying to be black, white, Chinese, Japanese, Mexican, etc. I don't see the sense in Freedman who aren't Cherokee by blood wanting to be Cherokee. Could it be the benefits? That's not a good enough reason for forcing your way into the tribe. Maybe black politicians can do it for you. No, the fact would still be you're not Cherokee. Face it. The Freedman will never be Cherokee if they're not descended by blood. Some Freedman are Cherokee and that's alright. Actually being Cherokee is the only way to being Cherokee. Accept no substitutes. It's as simple as that if you're confused.

Firstsai, University of Kansas (4/6/2008 5:02:17 PM)

Some very interesting points here. I suppose all you "Cherokee" can prove you are Cherokee by blood? We have the technology...why don't we give DNA testing try. I guarantee a lot of you have more than a little Buffalo Soldier in you. But then, that's not really the issue. This issue is one on CITIZENSHIP, and the desire for the head mucky mucks to hang on to their ill-gotten casino money. When they needed the Freedmen to inflate tribal enrollment so they could get more benefits, the Cherokee didn't seem to have any problem accepting them on the rolls. Now, they want to throw them all overboard, using the same dirty politics that got the Cherokee to Oklahoma in the first place. How is this going to play out? The Freedmen are going to win, because they are going to sue the crap out of the Cherokee, who will settle, or risk bankruptcy. Reniging on a treaty isn't unique to the Great White Father, and the Cherokee are closer to being "honorary" whites that one would have imagined.

To, Firstsai, (4/6/2008 10:18:32 PM)

To #17, Firstsai, University of Kansas,
Yep, your're right. Who cares how many ancestors of different races we have. The Cherokee Nation only cares that you can PROVE you are linked to ONE CHEROKEE ANCESTOR, and like the rest of us, they could care less about all the other races you are composed of, just as long as you have some Cherokee blood. That totally makes sense. Now why is it, all other members of the Cherokee Tribe have to prove that same thing to be a member of the Tribe. Prove what you say, who inflated the rolls with Freedmen then kicked them out? That's bull! And nope, the Freedmen are not going to win. As far as "honorary whites" the government has been trying to do that to all Indians for 300 years. Now they have a few Freedmen helping them. I find that amazing.

unhunh, not here (4/6/2008 10:25:13 PM)

Either you are Cherokee or you are not. Base the case on DNA and we all might be suprised! Yes, it IS all about the $$$ not about the wanting to be part of the tribe. If it wasn't about the free $$$ there wouldn't be such a fuss. Why don't the freedmen get their own tribe and hit the Federal government up for their own funding? I'm sure their black caucus could arrange that. I am also sure if we could go back in time none of us would ever have had slaves. My ancestors were happy to free their slaves. They said they cost more than they were worth. Nothing has changed. We even supplied free passage back to Africa. You would call that Liberia. They've done a great job with that place. Good luck Natives, you're going to need it.

un hunh, Tulsa (4/6/2008 10:36:29 PM)

13. 4/5/2008 1:22:16 PM, never?????, tulsa
#11
"Dont be trying to give those freeloaders back to us whites.
we already gave them 40 acres and a mule and they lost their
pay out in a crap game."

That's pretty funny...I forgot about that!

un hunh, not here (4/6/2008 10:42:05 PM)

Didn;t we also give the entire territory of Oklahoma to the Natives? How did we steal it back again? You just wait Natives, they will probably try to get your Casinos too. I'd be sending one of your smart kids to a really good law school so you can put up a fight. You know they're going to try. I'd be preparing for it. They even take our land that we paid for, it's called emminent domain.

To unhunh, not here, (4/6/2008 10:43:07 PM)

To #19,
Oh yes, how true you speak, It's all about money. Read post
#17, especially. "The head mucky mucks to hold onto their ill- gotten casino money". See, some are so ill-informed, they think all members of the tribe get a slice of the pie each month in the form of a big fat check. And even if the Cherokees done that, what would your take be each month, divided amoung almost 300,000. Might be 50 cents. They should be trying to infiltrate one of those small tribes, you know, with a couple hundred members. And again, #17 shows money as his/her motive by bringing up lawsuit. Yep, money, money, money, that's what it's all about.

John, Tulsa (4/7/2008 9:13:06 AM)

The Cherokees are hypocrits. I am not African American. I have no vested interest in this fight except it galls me that the Indians who scream racism and discrimination at the drop of the hat are actually the biggest bigots around.

The worst part is that they are bigots who get millions of tax dollars. They can act high and mighty about their Native American heritage while at the same time they practice public funded racism.

un hunh, not here (4/7/2008 5:29:42 PM)

#24, They don't want to be Indians, they just want your money. There are more white congressmen than there are black. But that doesn't mean anything. Get a really good lawyer and good luck.

#18" As far as "honorary whites" the government has been trying to do that to all Indians for 300 years. Now they have a few Freedmen helping them. I find that amazing. "

Me too. I don't know how the Indians stand it. I guess that's why you have the Tribe, so you don't have to. I'm on your side and I will email my congressmen, not that they will do anything.

Isom Taylor, Oklahoma City (4/8/2008 5:31:21 AM)

In regards to the comments by JAG # 2, if you consider it was the Chief of the Cherokee Nation that was not satisfied with the legal and democratic process of his own Cherokee Supreme Court decision that the Cherokee Freedmen were legally entitled to citizenship based on the Treaty of 1866 then you are blaming the wrong parties.

Clearly from your racist rhetoric you choose to cloud the issue by painting all black people as "STAY IN SCHOOL, DON"T SELL DRUGS, DON'T GET INTO GANGS and PARENTS NEED TO TEACH THERE KIDS RIGHT AND WRONG INSTEAD OF TEACHING THEM THAT STEALING IS EASIER THAN GETTING A JOB AND WORKING FOR A LIVING . GET OFF WELFARE"

If you stopped and thought about what you are attributing to black folk, it is clear from the protestations of those in the tribes voicing their concerns of what they would lose if the legislation proposed is enacted fit your description better.

They are receiving welfare in the form of $300 million dollars, without any federal oversight, from a lot of news articles, drugs and gang violence is present in Indian Country and spousal abuse is considered an epidemic. None of this addresses the issue of the Five Slave Holding tribes honoring a treaty they signed and because their history is replete with violence and racism against African and African-Native descendants, they now want to maintain their welfare, dependent status and continue their racist violations of the U.S. Constitution.

Sorry, my friend they are not standing on the moral high ground and it is fitting that they suffer for their transgressions.