tulsaokgirl, Tulsa (7/14/2008 2:35:50 AM)

Yes, I agree, 61st and lewis area use to be a nice area and there still are a lot of nice houses going for low prices because they can sell them now. I wouldn't want to live there even with a great deal. Even Peoria around 61st used to be nice. Now when I drive by that area it looks exactly what it has become, a slum area with lots of section 8, drug dealing, gangsters.
If you take a look at all the areas that allow section 8, you can see they all look like ghettos. It is also because of the illegal aliens. They destroy their neighborhoods and the crime rate has really risen since we allowed so many illegals to take over certain areas as the eastside, north of midtown and some of south Tulsa. The sad fact is that not much will be done unless it happens in the richer areas of Tulsa. I used to love the older houses in White City and around 15th but the crime, prostitutes and the illegals are destroying that area. You can't even go to a park now without feeling like you have enter Mexico. Tulsa needs to round up all the illegals, the gangs and criminals and ship them all to Mexico. Let them take care of them like we are. The jails aren't too nice there so it would be a good place for all the criminals. Tulsa has one of the largest population of criminals for a town our size. We also have high child abuse and unwed mothers. Way to go Tulsa. You rank in the bottom of bad cities in the US. OH, we also have one of the largest poverty rates for children in the US.

Isaac Parker, Tulsa (7/14/2008 5:53:56 AM)

Section 8 housing "ghettoizes" any area of the city where located. These are the spawning centers for crime and drug activity. OUR government created this mess and now the entire country is paying for it, both literally and figuratively. The court system continually turns violent, habitual, criminal perps back onto the streets to be arrested time and again.

Our government at work for us...build more prisons...we're going to need them.

As long as good citizens accept illegal drug and criminal activities in their neighborhoods, the problems will only get worse.

cs, (7/14/2008 6:40:24 AM)

The climate of these killings is grounded in young men with no sense of responsibility. They live off women who live off welfare.
If they were busy working to prevent themselves and their offspring from starving they would not have the energy for all this mayhem.

Giving handouts has never worked in any form. (housing, paying unwed mothers, etc)
If a person does not work and sweat to acquire something, they just don't appreciate it.

chase, (7/14/2008 7:01:39 AM)

chase .who filed an complaint about 1804, too protect the illegals in tulsa, can you say tulsa chamber of commerce,ithink i am right.

getreal, (7/14/2008 7:56:50 AM)

It is so good to read these informed comments. No factual data and lots of name calling. Must have no point. If there is a point back it with factual data instead of the typical talk show speak.

chase, (7/14/2008 8:01:24 AM)

chase who filed a law suit too overturn 1804? so get real.

Hijinx, (7/14/2008 8:26:59 AM)

chase, ya know you dont have to put your name in the comments section dont ya? Looks like your talking to yourself.

jaha, (7/14/2008 8:38:46 AM)

Subject: FW: Mark your calendar


Did you know that companies in the US have said they would hire a white man with a felony record and no high school education BEFORE they would hire a black man with NO criminal record and a 4-year degree?

On July 23 at 9pm and July 24 at 9pm, CNN will premier a series, 'Black in America with Soledad O'Brien' and I personally challenge you to watch it WITH your children, especially your sons, if you have any, uninterrupted. The aforemention statistic and many others will be revealed during the series.

I had the privilege of meeting with Soledad O'Brien and actually SEEING this premier on Monday, and what I saw brought tears to my eyes and anguish, frustration, and a sense of helplessness to my soul.

On Monday the series will focus on Women and Families and Tuesday is dedicated entirely to the plight of the Black Man in America .

I beg and plead with you PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE watch and internalize what you see and hear; no matter HOW disturbing the information revealed...you can (and will) thank me later.


The advantage that some have are not offered to some this has been the history of this country.

vj, (7/14/2008 8:52:18 AM)

What an appropriate last name for the author of this story. Killman? Was this author selected on purpose?

commonsense, Tulsa (7/14/2008 9:05:33 AM)

Wow a lot of you assume things & have no factual data to support. you say crime & first thing you do is sterotype people. "Oh they on welfare" I bet you didn't even know that white's are the majority ethnic group that have welfare & kids ou of wedlock. As you still in your homes drinking your starbucks & making comments ( see I did it sterotyped) but only to make a point. Majority of these crime shows between peoria & lewis crossed by BA expressway & 244.

commonsense, Tulsa (7/14/2008 9:14:59 AM)

Plus I personally know two gang police officers that I have coached youth sports with & they say gang violence is high in others such as B.A & sout Tulsa but these events are swept under the rug so property value wan't be declining.

EB, Tulsa (7/14/2008 9:20:55 AM)

CAN YOU SAY "LOW INCOME HOUSING"?

commonsense, Tulsa (7/14/2008 9:26:43 AM)

I find it hard to disagree with jaha, cause I am an educated blk male that have been unemployeed since January. I feel constrained to find employment that fits my needs. I have be told several times that I am over qualified or they just went in another direction. I talked to a company this morning about a position that I had an interview with last month and was informed that the position was filled with a TEMP!!!

chase, (7/14/2008 9:53:04 AM)

sorry hijinks i flunk grammer

Brittany's mom, Chandler (7/14/2008 10:13:14 AM)

I have worked closely with Nicole. She has been a support and a place to vent ever since Brittany's murder. Even as we near the fourth anniversary of what Nicole coined (I think, during the first year) as the most mysterious murder of and since 2004, she, Curtis and the Tulsa World have been there strong as the first few weeks. This is partially what gives me strength to keep on going with the fight to find our murderer and to change laws that I feel impacted Brittany brutal murder. I recently have been talking to Rep Wesselhoft and if elected again he is again gong to push the DNA at arrest of violent crime bill again, possibly this time with Brittany's name (last year they tried under the name of a Nevada murder victim I think). We may have a problem with the fact that Oklahoma does not always see rape as violent (sic!).
We cannot forget the Tulsa Police Department. In particular Detective Jeff Felton adn and Sgt Mike Huff have stood by our side through this iongoing nightmare. I am told many officers, cadets, other police department members volunteer to help on our case. I feel Jeff Felton treats our case as if Brittany was his daughter. I can never repay their kindness.
Thank you Tulsa World for the great coverage for all the families of these victims. You have possibly helped the families of these victims to connect even more. Although there is POM I hope to maybe create another local group for the parents, with strong support for those unsolved crimes and issues related to keeping the killers in prison who come up for parole. I hope readers will visit all of the victim's families websites.
Thank you Tulsa World for your empathy, kindness, understanding and compassion towards these issues.
With Never Ending gratitude
Maggie
Mother of Brittany Phillips 10/04/85 to 10/04/04

commonsense, Tulsa (7/14/2008 11:53:50 AM)

You can't do that cause it call "illegal profiling".

Windwalker, (7/14/2008 12:26:33 PM)

GOOD LUCK...

rad, (7/14/2008 3:34:03 PM)

i remember about 30 years ago 61st and peoria was a great, and very safe place to live, as I in fact lived there 30 years ago. NOT NOW, ghetto and CRACK CITY, is'nt Tulsa ever going to smarten up?????? DUH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ladybug, Tulsa (7/14/2008 5:42:42 PM)

annie do you ever have anything to say that makes sense? Tulsa is a great city with a lot of great towns around the area. Anytime you have a city with a larger population you will have more crime. Growing comes often with a price. Why focus only on that? If you want to see nothing but negative you can find that anywhere if that is where you put your focus. Take a different look and see all the positive in Tulsa. I actually moved North of Tulsa to be closer to work. I still find myself driving 4 or 5 times a week into Tulsa because of everything they have to offer here. There is great shopping here, there are great people, and things for families todo. There are great restaurants and my church is in Tulsa. Tulsa has the best highest trained most educated law enforcement in our country. I am proud of Tulsa. You can take the girl out of Tulsa but you cant take the Tulsan out of the girl.

Ladybug, Tulsa (7/14/2008 8:29:05 PM)

As long as there is consent which many times consent IS given then it is lawful. You also do not need a warrent when there is a fatality accident involved.

Art F. Daujier, (7/14/2008 8:35:36 PM)

Commonsense, Jaha

Dudes. Step back and grasp reality. Crime exists in lower income areas because they are exactly that: low income. That is not to say that it does not exist in upper income areas, it’s just not nearly as prevalent. Upper income areas are described as such because people in those areas have money to buy the things they want and need. Lower income areas, on the other hand, are populated by those who are without the funds available to purchase the things that they want and need. The problem arises when humans confuse the difference between “want” and “need”. This is not as great an issue in the upper-income communities, as the funds exist which allow people to sit back in their gated communities and sip caramel macchiato. Admittedly, I have none of your required solid evidence to back up the following claim and am only relying on Commonsense, but I doubt seriously that the drug dealing and associated violence in the areas in question are the result of one and two-parent households not being able to afford needed bread, eggs, cheese, and milk for their children. More likely, its roots are in the wanting of jewelry, rims, high-end shoes, and additional drugs by young (and not so young) men with too much time on their hands, as they are not gainfully employed and have no desire to be so. I think we would all agree that it is much easier to sit back in a Section 8 housing project smoking a blunt and sipping a “40” purchased with the cash ripped off of some law-abiding neighbor who was just trying to make their way in this world than it is to stay in school, pay attention, go to college and then get a job. Again, no hard evidence, only Commonsense.

“But Art,” you say, “these poor misunderstood souls can’t afford to go to college”. That is rubbish and Commonsense, if you have the degree that you claim, we both know that to be true. Not only did I (and I assume you) use financial aid to get through school, I was a Financial Aid Counselor at one of the State’s major universities for a few years while trying to graduate. I loved to see poor people come into my office – the poorer, the better - because the poorer they were, the more FREE MONEY I got to give them. What a rush - seriously. The best parts were that they were using education as a way out of poverty and it was not my money per se. Granted (no pun intended), a certain level of academic progress had to be maintained, but with any investment in the future, that is to be expected.

Without the highly overrated “hard evidence” and only Commonsense to guide me, I would hazard a guess that in this world where true success most often comes at the price of delayed gratification, most of the parents\role models of these young men were not pre-occupied with education or delaying gratification themselves. Generally, the longer one can put off taking the easy way out, the more successful he or she will be. Those who drop out of high school are less likely than those that graduate to be successful. Those who don’t go on to college are less likely to be successful than those who do. Those who go on to get advanced degrees…well, you get my point. Blaming society for one’s failure to look around and figure out how to better one’s self in the marketplace is nothing but a cop out. Until we all realize that we must take responsibility for our own actions and choices, the divide between the “haves” and the “have-nots” will only widen.

Commonsense, I grew up on W. 50th St N. just off of Cincinnati and lived at 21st and Mingo for about two years and like you, I graduated college and looked around and found I could not get a decent paying job in Oklahoma. On the other hand, my degree was highly sought after in Washington DC, and then Charlotte, and then Kansas, and then….

Take my advice: go where you have to go and do what you have to do to make an honest living in this world. If you are not making it to the first face-to-face interview, they won’t know the color of your skin. Rework your res, or re-tool your education. There is not mu

Art F. Daujier, (7/14/2008 8:37:05 PM)

Darn length monitor - anyway:

There is not much opportunity in the market for those who have their degree in White Studies or Men’s Issues. If it appears you are not getting a fair shake because of a physical aspect beyond your control, go somewhere where you can. It doesn’t mean that you have to stay there forever, but it will beef up your resume and you will return the conquering hero. DC pays a helluva lot better than OK. To just stand in a dark room and complain because there is no light is foolish – find the switch, turn on the light.

The best revenge is living well. Pass that knowledge along to your children. In order to reinforce your feelings of acceptance of them, they will attempt to excel in whatever they believe you consider important. To tell them that they have a reduced (or no) chance because of a physical characteristic that is beyond their control is to doom them to failure, at which point they will take their place on the corner with the others who were convinced at an early age that this is their lot in life. Those who speak this simple fact to the American people are usually mocked, threatened with castration and derided by those who make an extermely good living convincing others considerably less fortunate that it is all the fault of the Man. Hey, its a good gig if you can get it, but how they look at themselves in their gold-plated mirrors after selling out their own community on a daily basis is beyond me.

Soledad, although an excellent journalist and a major babe in her own right, will probably not be covering much of this in her series this week. That is unfortunate. I'll mark it up to the fact that she is playing the role of presenter and has most likely not been given editorial control.

commonsense, Tulsa (7/14/2008 11:06:14 PM)

Art- very well put but I am only saying lets not single out people on welfare or low income housing, "that's to easy". Yes it's horrible that crime exist but the crime in these areas have far to much airtime and media.

Rayona Forehand, Tulsa (7/15/2008 4:45:56 AM)

I live in a relatively low area of crime in East tulsa yes that's right; I believe the shootings are a kind of culling the herd when they occur outside bars; but I hate to see shootings anywhere in my town, Tulsa needs to wake up we are growing into a big city and these are the growing pains of that growth. We need to pay cops better employ more of them and allow them to do their jobs. Until it is a priority, crime will rise. I look at Kansas City news and they have about the same kind of things. I'm truly sorry for those who have lost loved ones; we as a city need to act to make things change and it will get better but it takes more of us to get the work done. Won't you help?

Rayona Forehand, Tulsa (7/15/2008 4:50:19 AM)

Oh yeah! If we could just disperse the money evenly all over Tulsa; crime would almost disappear so if evreyone who reads this will send me $100 dollars I'll make sure that it gets spread around the poorer areas of town, it's not communist, I'll spend it that's consumerism!