bm, (8/18/2008 5:40:09 PM)

This is a really sad story. My heart goes out to the families involved.

For some reason, though, it bothers me that 60 gun owners were asked to "voluntarily" relinquish their legally-owned firearms.

Don't jump down my throat, I'm just saying it bothers me for reason.

bm, (8/18/2008 5:42:50 PM)

"relinquish" wasn't the right word. "submit their weapons for testing" is what I should have typed. You will notice that the word "weapon" was used. This is a technique by news writers to impress upon you that guns are "bad."

Which word sounds more "mean" to you? "Weapon" or "firearm" ?

Think about it.

tfromtulsa, Tulsa (8/18/2008 6:07:50 PM)

I think it's just a matter of OSBI doing a thorough investigation. Why would they not do this?

bear53, (8/18/2008 6:31:20 PM)

this gun could be stolen or was sold before registration became law. either way is assured it will not turn up. i'm thinking a .40 cal. handgun is rare by todays standards.

bear53, (8/18/2008 6:31:58 PM)

this gun could be stolen or was sold before registration became law. either way is assured it will not turn up. i'm thinking a .40 cal. handgun is rare by todays standards.

H_Harl, (8/18/2008 7:36:39 PM)

bear53, .40 caliber auto is very common. i personally know several people with them. it's heart wrenching to think that someone could use one on 2 innocent little girls. i pray they catch who did this. every time i see those little girls sweet little faces, it breaks my heart all over again.

armed_citizen, (8/18/2008 7:58:43 PM)

Since when does Oklahoma have handgun registration?

Also, bear53, .40 cal. is a very common handgun these days. It is a very common defensive caliber for police officers and citizens alike. Both 10mm and .40 S&W fire the same bullets from different cartridges.

I seriously hope they catch the vermin responsible for this, but I'm disturbed by the implication that Oklahoma, one of the most free states in the USA, has handgun registration.

ok sooner, (8/18/2008 8:19:01 PM)

ive been in law enforcement a long time and i would never "voluntarily submit their weapons for testing " get a warrant. This is only done out of disparation.

bm, (8/18/2008 8:42:29 PM)

I'm with ok sooner. I wouldn't voluntarily submit my firearms to law enforcement without a warrant, either.
This is really starting to bother me. Why ask 60 citizens to do this? Or maybe they're waiting for somebody to refuse to submit "voluntarily" whereupon they do get a warrant?

getreal, (8/18/2008 8:51:34 PM)

Weapon, gun, firearm, pistol, etc. WHO CARES? Some person used it to murder two innocent human beings. God's creations! I do not care about what you think the instrument of murder should be called. These girls are dead and their families are suffering.

bm, Tulsa (8/18/2008 8:55:59 PM)

Indeed, getreal. The families have my total sympathies, i assure you.

okie ridgerunner, small town (8/18/2008 9:16:33 PM)

My heart goes out to the familys. and i pray they catch the scum killers. I am just glad they are still doing something and have not dropped the case. why would any one care if they checked their gun if they had nothing to do with it. except to feel some self control and power. the slime maggots need to be caught how ever they go about doing it. just catch the real slime ball killers how ever they can.

carry, (8/18/2008 10:31:58 PM)

This was a very sad event. I do so much hope they jail those who did it.

The .40 gun is very, very common, many, many police use it and many more private owners. Have any police been asked to test fire THEIR guns? And I would love to know just where did the police get the names and addresses for the owners. There is no gun registration in OK. It is illegal for them to have such info. if they had access to ANY "resister".

And now they say in a warning way that they will be "checking on" folks just because they did not submit to their wishes! I am all for getting these folks, but why does it have to be done by threatening people who had nothing to do with the event? Do they really think those who did it will walk in with the gun in hand and tell them it's ok to check?

If this is such a good idea and way to do things, why not do it for all murders in OK? And everywhere else for that matter. Many unsolved killings in OK that could be solved this way. But it is illegal for them to have access to ANY official firearms records and they know it. And how about guns that were sold person to person, there will be no record of them, and stolen guns as well. No criminal is going to bring in the gun he/she used to commit a crime. Just where did they get this info???????

Sounds if they are just trying desperation moves.

armed_citizen, (8/18/2008 10:42:14 PM)

Okie ridgerunner, we care because such precedent can, and will, cost a lot more lives than those two precious children.

The battle cry of our opposition is, "If it saves one child, it's worth it."

I'm afraid that when we violate the Constitution to "save one child", we will create a world in which we wouldn't want our children to live.

B52, (8/19/2008 1:46:30 AM)

That's what you call a clue, "carry". And I'm betting this sickening case will be solved.

okie ridgerunner, small town (8/19/2008 7:27:36 AM)

No a criminal or killer is not going to take a gun in for them to fire. they know that. it is the ones that dont or want they or concerened with. they have to do something. the world would even be worse if they payed attention to all theses comments. some people have wisdom and common sense and some do not. every one thinks they are right.

C.R. Delough, Tulsa (8/19/2008 9:11:05 AM)

It's sad because one of the girls was a fan of "CSI" type shows...the detectives though in this case seem stymied. I hope something breaks soon.

carry, (8/19/2008 12:26:01 PM)

B52,

Just what "clue" are you talking about? I was in law enforcement for over 20 years before retiring, I think I understand "clues". In many, many unsolved crimes the police know the caliber and type of firearm used, they just can not find it. Although somewhat dumb, I have no complaint about them ASKING folks to test their guns. Though I still believe that if they think the criminal will simply walk into their offices with the gun in hand and say "yes sir, this is the gun you are looking for." then they are wrong.
Criminals are what they are because they do not follow the law, only the good guys do that. So any "request", "law" or "directive" only effects the good guys, never the bad guys. They already think laws and such are a joke. Everyone NEEDS to understand that. Laws only effect the good guys because they are the only ones that follow them. They have NO effect on the bad guys. There are already enough laws on the books to send every bad guy to jail for life, if they break them. When our elected officials pass ten laws against the same thing and they all do the same as the first law, why? They just want to make us "feel good". Use the first law on the criminals, put them in jail for life. Our world would be a much better place with more criminals in jail and less laws on the books.

When people say enforce the laws on the books, this is what they are talking about. If one is a criminal, it does not matter how many laws are on the books as they will not mind any of them. Only the good guys (who follow the laws) are caught up in the quagmire because they try their best to follow all laws. Criminals could not care less if something is against one law or twenty. They have no intension of following any.

Remember that when your Representative wants to pass another law, who will it effect? Is there not already one on the books that addresses the problem? They do this simply to make "the people" think they are doing something besides boosting their retirement benefits package. And remember this, all the laws passed AFTER the Columbine school shooting would have, if followed, done NOTHING to stop what those two monsters did. Nothing. They broke not one of those laws. Then why were they passed, to make us "feel better".

I believe the police think someone may have used a parents gun or loaned it to another then put it back. I believe this is what they are after in testing the guns. But I believe if the law abiding people have to follow the law, so should the police. To shake their finger in the face of folks who try to follow the law and say "we'll be following up on you." because you want us to follow the law as well, is something out of 1984. It does absolutely nothing to the criminal. He/she doesn't care what happens to "the people". They see them only as prey.

I think this case MAY be solved, may be. But it will most likely be from a tip from someone mad at whoever did it or because they talked to much. Some criminals like to brag, I hope they do in this case. I want to see them caught.

pwfs, (8/19/2008 5:45:33 PM)

This is a pure desperate act by OSBI - and actually hurts the investigation. If the killer has any brain at all and is among the law-abiding people who registered their guns (rather than those who own them and did not register them) he is surely going to say it is lost or has been sold. If the gun is actually 'found' the rifleing marks produced by a modern hand gun are no 100% reliable and no where near as reliable in identifying the gun like DNA or fingerprints would be so you could not be sure it really is the correct gun. The you have a legal problem as this is surely tainted evidence in that an illegal search argument or self incrimination argument could be used to exclude it from prosecution. This is a really bad idea any way you look at it - OSBI needs to do more homework and get warrants to look at specific guns so they can use the evidence to prosecute the animal that did this.

carry, (8/20/2008 12:02:06 PM)

Just to let everyone know and understand: Oklahoma has NEVER had and DOES NOT NOW have gun registration. Let me say that again, there is no such thing as gun registration in Oklahoma.

pwfs,

Yes sir, the tests they can do on guns these days is 100% reliable. It has been used as evidence in every court in the land. There will be no problems in that area OR the area of illegal search if the gun is simply "found". Sadly, like most people today, it sounds as if what you know of the law comes from TV. Not trying to insult you, it's just that if most folks see something on TV they think and believe that it is real or the truth. Not so. TV will often disregard the law and make things up to move the story along. It is fiction. I can not count how many times someone said to me "you have to read me my rights". That is not true. When someone is arrested there is nothing that says the police have to read them their rights. One's rights must be read when they are in custody AND you talk to them about the crime for which they were arrested. Don't talk to them about the crime and no "rights" have to be read. I will not even mention the joke about how many folks think they have a "right" to a phone call.

But I do agree with your take on the performance of the OSBI. Sounds as if they are flat out of clues. And again, the .40 being a very popular gun for the police, I wonder how many of them have been asked to test their weapons?

From what I have been able to uncover, it sounds as if the OSBI went to local gun dealers, pawn shops or Sheriff and talked them into letting them look at the Federal firearms forms someone fills out when they buy a gun. But what if the gun were bought in a private transaction, given away, brought in from out of state or stolen? There will be no "record" of them. Simply a waste of time and money. That's why it hasn't been done in other killings.

I want these folks caught. What they did was monstrous. But use some common sense.

RickJames, (8/22/2008 10:36:10 PM)

I really don't like for law enforcement to be combing through dealers' records looking at everybody's name, address, type of gun etc., etc. unless they are searching for a particular name. If they request the dealer to "Please check your bound book and see if John Smith has purchased a gun from you in the last year." that would be O.K. if "John Smith" is a suspect in a gun related crime. It's really none of the government's business what guns I own as long as I don't use them to commit a crime. This is a gross invasion of gun owner's privacy rights. Oppose it.

flagtag, Westville (8/24/2008 1:09:47 PM)

While I believe that it is necessary to do anything (legal) to find the killer of the two beautiful children, I believe the police are going about it incorrectly in this case.

The person(s) who killed these children (or anyone who used a gun to commit a crime) is NOT going to turn it over to the police to be examined. Get real!

And why just 60 (?) in the whole state? Surely there are more than that number of that caliber in the state? What about the police? What caliber handgun do they carry? Will the firearms of every police officer - or politician at every level - be examined as well?

If I lived there and was "asked" to submit to testing, I would agree as long as an officer of the law handed me that all-important piece of paper - a search warrant. I would have nothing to hide. BUT, do it by the book! As I do.

My prayers and best wishes are with the family and friends of those precious little girls. I also pray that the killer(s) is found soon, and punished severely!

Ng, (8/24/2008 3:50:44 PM)

This is terrible that these two girls were murdered. I and I am sure everyone else wants criminals caught and they get the justice they deserve.

However, do you want to give away your rights? Today it checking .40 caliber handguns. Unless the these thugs are doofuses, they have long ago discarded these guns.

Next the police will be asking for fingerprints, dna, phone records, etc. If you do not comply will they hound you in the press or maybe arrest you for impeding an investigation. Maybe the latter won't stick, but it will cost you quite a penny to win that in court.

We have certain rights as Americans that are the envy of citizens of the world. Don't just let government whittle them away less you find out what rights a European has.