Harold Brookens 1, (8/19/2008 5:37:41 AM)

If it were possible to create a database of ammunition sales and used tire sales, or new, and cross reference that data as it correlates to tire purchases after the murders there might be a relationship. Also, is there a relationship in vehicle registrations that corresponds within that time frame and ammunition sales?

This killer(s) must be caught. I say test every registered .40 in the state. I'd be happy to pay an extra tax on anything to catch those responsible.

Harold Brookens 1, (8/19/2008 5:53:16 AM)

Basically create a database of .40 ammunition sales prior to the murders and look for a relationship in vehicle registrations and tire sales against those names after the crime.

Everything that can be done needs to be done. This crime robbed the people of the State of Oklahoma of our honor and compassion as a community of citizens. Justice must be served for redemption.

Tony G, (8/19/2008 6:14:00 AM)

I would guess the other gun is a 9mm. but I would doubt the murder weapons would be registered. This seems like a long shot and suggest the police are running out of leads.
I can only hope the murderer tells someone, and that someone, turns them over to police. I would.

SS_hippy, Tulsa (8/19/2008 6:16:24 AM)

help me out gun people. Will the .40 probably be the medium caliber bullet if the M.E. described them as small and med?
if so then the smaller one is most likely a .22, right?
they are cheap, plentiful and often the first gun a kid owns.

Harold Brookens 1, (8/19/2008 6:21:29 AM)

They may not be registered, but I think all guns need ammunition. These killers seem to like to use a lot of it. They have to get it from somewhere.

QLC, (8/19/2008 6:36:43 AM)

Harold, how can you say that everyone in the United States should give up their privacy rights just because there was an incident that the police are having trouble solving? How ever horrific this tragedy is, there is no reason to go overboard with further diminishing my constitutional rights.

Harold Brookens 1, (8/19/2008 6:42:47 AM)

We'll their doing it. If you read the article, they sent letters to all .40 cal owners in the area to bring their weapons to the court house on a certain day and time. Those who didn't show up, there going to go see.

Michael Phillips, Tulsa (8/19/2008 6:52:11 AM)

How does any gun come to be registered in Oklahoma? The data base that ATFE keeps is supposed to be cleared within 24 hours of an entry.
A .40 caliber is not small so I am guessing it is the medium size gun. The small size could be a .22. Some people like to cary a .22 because it is both light and won't recoil as badly. I don't own a .22 myself. Most people think of them as mouse guns.

getreal, (8/19/2008 7:03:09 AM)

QLC;

You have no privacy rights in this country. Your credit, your travel, your internet usage are all being well monitored and documented. The border patrol has the legal authority to seize your laptop, copy the hard drive, and hold the information when returning from Mexico and Canada. The Treasury Department stops passengers boarding flights leaving the U.S. and asked if they are carrying more than $10,000. Oh, there list goes on and on!

So QLC, don't give us a privacy issue smoke screen. You gave that up when you were born in the USA!

thedomesticgodess, Eufaula (8/19/2008 7:04:52 AM)

whats the chances it is registered.. I have a gun that we havent got round to registering it.. We bought it off a neighbor and its been put up since.. I dont think about it and dont use it..

QLC, (8/19/2008 7:23:04 AM)

Thank you Harold, I was commenting on your desire to create databases of all my gun activities. I am confident there are some databases of your information that you would reject. As far as coming to see me if I didn't submit to their witch hunt, so far I can still have that conversation at the front door and wish them well.

If we want to continue to enjoy our constitutional rights, we are going to have to stop them from taking a piece at a time in the interest of FEAR!

QLC, (8/19/2008 7:32:07 AM)

I agree getreal, but I continue to fight it every time I can. What makes it so difficult is people like Harold that believe solving a crime is a good excuse to further document my activities. The government and media have done a great job of scaring us into giving it all up.

Harold Brookens 1, (8/19/2008 7:42:58 AM)

Wrong!!! I really don't agree with the methods being used by law enforcement. This is a wake up call for everone. As much as we all need this crime to be solved, I really don't believe in the methodology thats being employed. Remember a few years ago about a killer in England where the authorities DNA test "every citizen in a town?" This is reminciscent of that situation.

I'm only saying, that as far as public information is available, gun registrations, vehicle registrations, sales reciepts (tires etc) pawn tickets, and other public and investigative documents that are available, should be used and analyzed to help solve this crime.

Personably, I wish some of this was not available to law enforcement. But since it is USE IT TO SOLVE THIS CRIME!!!

Bart78, (8/19/2008 8:09:01 AM)

Is there a real journalist on staff at TW? How about asking the authorities how they knew these people owned firearms in .40 caliber? This question needs to be asked because there is no "gun registration" in OK, contrary to Harold and the hausfrau's mistaken opinions. In buying a new gun, a buyer submits an ATF form for the NICS check that includes info on the firearm. Assuming the purchase is approved by NICS, the form is retained by the dealer and the buyer departs with the firearm, never having to seek further permisssion or to "register" the gun, at least in OK. The info from the form is only held in the NICS system for 24 hours after approval and the form in the dealer's files is there for ATF audit, not general use by police agencies on a fishing expedition for a suspect.

Harold Brookens 1, (8/19/2008 8:20:17 AM)

Man you people are so benign in the thought processes. It obvious these letters were a feint. They simply requested the info from dealers, sent the letters and waited to see who responded. The evidence collected, or information derived would never be used in court. Its the product of the investigation that would be weaved to collect evidence to convict a killer or killers. Thats the point. No one is trampling the constitutional rights of the citizens of Oklahoma. Its just investigative analysis.

bear53, (8/19/2008 9:11:59 AM)

i was under the impression that gun registration is entered into a federal data base regardless of the state. ncic is used to trace auto's, guns, etc.

Ignatz, Broken Bow (8/19/2008 9:24:18 AM)

40 cal Rugers sold for $250 for a long time and I know law enforcement folks who bought 'em. Might be local cops, rent-a-cops or auxilary depty sheriffs who did this horrible deed. While records of transactions between licensed gun dealers and buyers are not kept by NCIS forever, a cross-reference system by serial # is always maintained. Otherwise, handgun ownership could never, ever be traced.

Michael Phillips, Tulsa (8/19/2008 10:09:29 AM)

NCIS is the Naval Criminal Investigation Services. NICS is National Instant Criminal Background Check System and I was mistaken it is maintained by the FBI not ATFE. It is NICS that you go through when buying a gun from an FFL.

symplyrobin, Tulsa (8/19/2008 10:10:33 AM)

Personally, and I expect and encourage retort to my opinion - If I were a member of the community of Weleetka I'd happily give my consent for any kind of background check, gun registry, tire purchases, where I was that day - I don't have anything to hide - For the betterment of any community anywhere I couldn't care less about my privacy being invaded - Record my phone conversations all you want - It would be very boring listening to the hours of tape obtained anyway - I know there are those that aren't doing anything wrong and are still very upset about their privacy being trampled on - Whether you are aware of it or not privacy isn't a right anymore - And we never had it in the first place.

The Patriot, (8/19/2008 10:44:33 AM)

Whats the point in owning a gun if they can trace it back to you when you murder someone with it? Doesnt seem American. Where is the NRA spokesperson on this outrageous affront to gun ownership. I mean a police department using a database to identify potential killers sounds to me like a violation of the gun owners second amendment rights. The people have clearly spoken. 30,000 hand gun deaths and 100,000 hand gun injuries every year are an acceptable trade off for the right to bear arms. Expecting people to present their weapons at the whim of a law enforcement agency should be outlawed.

Bart78, (8/19/2008 10:44:40 AM)

smplyrobin:

If we never had the right to be "secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects", why did those guys in the powdered wigs bother writing that amendment? Did the Fourth Amendment get repealed and it didn't make the paper? That may be, given the TW's lack of interest in finding out how the OSBI came to have the information on local guns.

For those that are interested, go the The High Road website and look at the comments on this article. There is a .pdf of the OSBI letter to gunowners being asked to "volunteer" for the test described in this article. Sorry, can't do a link due to TW rules.

If that letter leaves you feeling all warm and fuzzy about "innocent until proven guilty", then I guess we really have gone the way described by Thomas Jefferson: A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both, and deserve neither.

The Patriot, (8/19/2008 10:46:24 AM)

This message brought to you by the Whiskey Tango chapter of your local gun nut club.

Mavrickone, (8/19/2008 11:16:41 AM)

Something here is a little fishy for the following reasons:
1. There is no gun registration in Oklahoma.
2. There is no national reistration excepy on full autos.
3. NICS info is only kept for 24 hours and even if it was kept the info they have does not have the caliber,make serial# etc.The only know type handgun or long gun.

The only way they could get a list would be to go to every firearm dealer and physically look through every 4473 form.
This just doesn't add up????

Whirled Peas, (8/19/2008 11:30:04 AM)

Its beginning to look like the only way to find the person(s) responsible for these murders is to find out who seriously derailed the investigation to the point that police now want to see everyone's guns in town.
Is the fox guarding the henhouse?

bm, Tulsa (8/19/2008 12:06:02 PM)

"They that can give up essential liberty to purchase a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."

--Benjamin Franklin