Kel, Tulsa (9/15/2008 8:08:45 AM)

Tulsa public Schools should be Split into separate districts. Each high school should be its own district. All the schools that feed each high school should be under a superintendent for a High School district, example: Hale, Central, Edison, Washington, East Central, Memorial, Webster, and McLain. Give each neighborhood and school their identity back. Stop the bussing! Stop the total waste of money and time! Compete with the outlying districts Union, Jenks, BA, and Owasso.

Get rid of the Tulsa education service center. Sell the land. Save the wasted money.
Make schools teach and discipline their own students. If you want to change schools, MOVE!!!

Stop the insanity of rules being made by people that never interact with the students. Know your teachers and talk to your neighbors.

If anyone says this idea is too expensive, how much is a bad education worth. TPS is ruining the education of these kids and the reputation of Tulsa. Close the education service center!

Raef'smom, tulsa (9/15/2008 8:44:44 AM)

Where are they getting their numbers? Me and my husband Pay $680.00 a month for my 20 month old and we are dying to have a second child but i will have to quit my job for that to happen and we make too much for assistance!

John BA, Broken Arrow (9/15/2008 9:41:46 AM)

Raef'smom - Best thing to do is get divorced and present yourself as a single mom. I do not mean leave your husband. It does not have to impact the way you live, but it will open many opportunities that are closed because as a married couple you make too much.

Raef'smom, tulsa (9/15/2008 9:46:22 AM)

I see what your saying John BA but that is really unrealistic! maybe your being sarcastic and im not catching your drift!?lol Lots of parents at my daycare have more than one child enrolled and i dont know how they do it. I guess for some people whos combined income is over $150,000 a year its do-able but not for me!

golfwife, (9/15/2008 10:09:59 AM)

What has happened to our value system? Simply do not have a child if you cannot affort to feed, cloth, and educate. Birth control methods are so available.

I simply do not believe that the public should be made to pay for the upbringing of someone child when that person has acted so irresponsible.

I know of a young girl, in mid twenties, unmarried, had a precious baby girl 20 months ago. The government has made it so easy for her by giving her free healthcare, a card to swipe at the grocery store for her groceries, day care while she looks for a job in this small town that has no jobs available and the government know this, rent subsidy (she lives in one of her parents apartments). And now to conclude this, she just had a precious baby boy 3 months ago.

Now the government (you and I) is providing for two babies.

I am sorry for the couples that want a baby but simply do not have the means to provide for one and here, they, through their taxes are providing for a careless person's precious baby. Just not fair, simply not fair. I believe that after having a first baby out of wedlock, the female should have her tubes tied until such time she has become a responsible citizen. The father should be chased down and forced to be held accountable for this child.

John BA, Broken Arrow (9/15/2008 10:24:17 AM)

I am not being sarcastic. I have two friends, ex-employees at a company I had owned who have children that got divorced when the female got pregnant so she could get some kind of government assistance that provided first dollar medical care, a private room at a hospital, and food stamps. Both also get some type of assistance now that their babies are born. Granted I do not know all the programs involved but my friends say their kids would lose a lot if the got remarried before the kinds were in school.

plain guy, (9/15/2008 11:18:40 AM)

Unfortunately, I hate to climb onto that worn-out old wagon, but it seems everywhere I turn these day, I see babies raising babies. I see young girls not even twenty-years-old, toting two or three stair-step children. Even more disheartening, I've rarely seen the father(s). The young girls are usually with other mothers their age, or with their own mother. Looking at the cars they drive and their clothing, I have to wonder, how do they make it econnnomically? Then they whip out a food stamp debit card and then momma pays for the rest. Hmmm. There has to be an equitable solution for child-care and education. Any logical plans out there?

Mar, Tulsa (9/15/2008 11:22:51 AM)

When my youngest son at the age of 4 was in a child care center here in Tulsa it cost $45 a week and that was back in 1988. In 1992, we were living in Kansas up near Wichita and we lived in a small town (pop. 10,000) and since there were only 2 law firms in town, instead of doing legal work, I worked at a child care center in the 2 year old group. At that time it was about $65 a week for child care there. With the low pay in the area, 80% of the 95 children at the child care received either full or partial coverage of child care expenses by the state of Kansas.

I have 3 sons, all grown. My oldest son when he was young we lived in the same town as my parents so my mom or my grandma took care of my son while I worked (I worked as I was divorced at the time). After I remarried and had my other two sons, I worked off and on when they were young. So I've been on both sides, the working mother leaving her child at a child care center and also I've worked in a child care center.

From that perspective I think, that if at all possible a parent should stay home with young children (under age 10 or 12), or one parent work one shift and the other parent work a different shift so the child gets to stay home. If neither of those or feasible then a parent should work part-time where the child is only in a child care center part-time or better yet a parent work out of their home (with computers it's easier to have a job working out of the home). No matter how good a child care center is and how wonderful the caretakers are, there's no replacement for having a parent take care of their own children (of course, there are always exceptions, like if the parent is abusive toward the children).

My middle son and his wife who live in Kansas have an 11 month old daughter (my first granddaughter!). My daughter-in-law went back to work when the baby was 6 months old due to needing more income. But she only works about 25 hours a week and works evenings, where my son can take care of the baby.

As for child care centers, they are like anything else, there are good ones and bad ones. The one I worked at was good (otherwise I wouldn't have worked there), but the pay was pathetic. We had training and took classes and still made about $1 above minimum wage. During that time my middle son was in high school working part-time at Sonic Drive-In and made more than I did. He was flipping burgers and I was taking care of little human beings. Something is really out of balance, don't you think?

Sarah - I agree with your first paragraph. With all the different types of contraceptives, it seems more and more young women are having children out of wedlock. So I can only assume they are ignorant or getting pregnant on purpose. As for your second paragraph, perhaps you should move to a Communist country to live? And your third paragraph, if Joe Biden had a 17 year old daughter that got pregnant or he had a 17 year old son that got a young girl pregnant, would you make the same comment? That's what I thought, case made. :)

Jay of Tulsa, (9/15/2008 12:58:05 PM)

Looks like I need to open a daycare facility at these rates!!!

Hereandthere, Broken Arrow (9/15/2008 1:52:47 PM)

I am having trouble believing the stature of the comments that I am reading on this story. golfwife - have you ever worked a day in your life? Do you even have children or is your frame of reference from a hundred years ago? Paulk - disgusting and bigoted.
Of course there are people that take advantage of the system, that is everywhere and it will continue as long as it is available, but seriously, unvoluntary sterilization! If the benefits were to be taken away it would solve the problem.
In this day and age, the cost of living has become outrageous and made it next to impossible to have a family. Luckily our children are teenagers and do not need daycare and we both have good enough jobs that we are able to leave and drive them to their extracurricular activities, but the option of staying home and taking care of the kids while the husband goes to work is just a thing of the past. So, in effect these kids are left alone a lot, feel neglected - but what can they do?, and look for entertainment and affection in other people - most of the time in negative ways.
The solution to the problem starts at home. BE PARENTS! Don't just do what you have to do, do what is required of a responsible parent that teaches children respect, love, responsibility, and security - parenting is the biggest job ever and kids need to know that. Teach them consequenses, they have to know that if they do something wrong they have to pay the price - don't blame it on anything/anyone else so that it doesn't have to be delt with - so many parents just want to avoid making the kids mad WHO CARES IF THEY GET MAD!! THEY ARE THE KID, YOU ARE THE PARENT!!

Team Ramrod, (9/15/2008 1:54:11 PM)

Typical redneck Oklahoman responses. You want to take away the woman's choice on having a baby and force her through pregnancy, yet you don't seem to want to take care of the child once it's here. Where is the logic in that?

LoveTulsa, (9/15/2008 3:59:12 PM)

Move to the Dallas/Ft. Worth area and THEN cry to me about child care costs in OK. It's pretty much 2 to 3 times what people pay here. But I do agree, it IS hard to pay child care even with a good job. You are pretty much working to pay daycare.

golfwife, (9/15/2008 4:24:59 PM)

Hereandthere - My husband and I raised two children, provided excellent pre-school day care, saw them through college, even provided good healthcare for them and all of this with no government assistant. The secret to all of this is NOT to have a child until you are financial ready. Period.

Statistics will prove that welfare breeds welfare. So, when one of these young girls gets laden with child try to convience her to adopt the child out to a good family that wants a precious gift. If they do not adopt out, let them or their family be financially responsible for the child. No more welfare.

And, hereandthere I have paid my dues in the labor market for some 40 yrs. So, yes I have worked a few days in my life. and never missed a dance recital, football/baseball/basketball game. Yea, I was even a PTA president but that sure does not make me qualified to be VP.

enoughisenough, (9/15/2008 4:55:04 PM)

My husband and I have many times spoken of "laws" that should be passed. Vasectomies in boys, until they are ready to be fathers is a great idea we had. Many girls "claim" they are on the pill and OOPS! As I female, I have encountered many girls who have gotten pregnant on purpose, much to their partners dismay. Condoms break, etc...very few boys want to be fathers at young ages. We then thought of before the vasectomy was reversed, the couple would have to be married, attend parenting classes and pass them and also qualify financially for raising the child.

Children are gifts! They should be nurtured, loved, educated and WANTED. Just today while dropping off my tiny man at daycare, there was a woman in there with her mom dropping off her 2 kids and 8 months pregnant with the 3rd. Swipping her government assistance card that assists in her childs day care costs. I agree with the above responses...why are you pregnant with a 3rd when you can't afford daycare costs for the 2 that you have??? I am assuming that they receive assistance in other places as well, but I am not certain. I bust my rear every day and so does my husband to provide for our child...it angers me to no end that our government basically condones this behavior and keeps shelling out the money to these families.

I guess it's all in how you were raised...I had a single mother who worked 2 jobs and never had ANY assistance from the government. None of our family would ever consider doing that...it's our problem and our own responsibility. I also learned from her mistakes and did not get pregnant out of wedlock or in my teenage years. She raised a very intelligent and successful woman who proves the statistic wrong and know you can do anything if you set your mind to it, including having a child when your are emotionally and financially ready.

Hereandthere, Broken Arrow (9/16/2008 8:14:04 AM)

golfwife, you are right, statistics show that welfare does breed welfare in most cases, but not all. I applaud you and your husband for being lucky/resourceful enough to make it through your child rearing years without needing goverment assistance but gone are the days of job security, employer/employee loyalty and "good" health insurance. While watching the news last night I saw all of the people carrying boxes with them after they had been let go at work. No one can say that their job is secure these days. The average time spent at a job (for current college graduates) is 2 - 3 years and employers are ok with that. Heaven forbid if an older person, like my father, be let go from his job because he would be descriminated at every turn - he would have to work at some low-paying retail job or something equally devistating. My point is that no matter how much money or resources a family has these days, it can be gone in a matter of 6-12 months because of the way society/economy is now, so it is impossible to say "We can afford a child now" when we all know that things change so dramatically/fast these days.

Don't get me wrong, I am not defending the teenagers that are getting pregnant and insisting on raising the kid themselves, thinking that they will have someone that loves them and not realising that babies are completely selfish and dependent. My son came home from school yesterday and said there is an 8th grader at his school that is 4 months pregnant and her mom is going to raise it. It floored me to hear that this girls life is over and her mom is going to pick up the slack, I think she should be made to give it up for adoption.

But I don't think that honest, hard working people should be called "breeders" and belittled for having/wanting a family (the thing that keeps us all happy/sane) because they don't have an island of wealth under their feet, people have been getting married and starting families since the dawn of time because that is what we do - most of them without tons of money.

Angry Citizen!, Bluejacket (9/30/2008 9:25:01 PM)

Enoughisenough-

Vasectomies for boys? Vie shoudt startz wiff sie Jew-vish Boyz virst frauline, das wavy zeir eisent das ovsspringer dus troublinmakerzen en da vatherlanden... YIKES-en-sie?!!

YAYTulsa, Catoosa, OK (10/1/2008 9:14:59 AM)

Two words - Living Wage. People who work 40 hours a week should be able to support their familys. We throw so much money at childcare, why not invest money in a family unit so a parent could stay home and take care of her children instead of leaving them with a stranger. Same money, better result. For single parents, take the women on welfare and give them jobs at daycare centers. There, you have a job, we have less expensive childcare. Don't want to work now that your "can't find a job" excuse is gone? No more money for you. Come to think of it... if we're going to give money away, can't we find a little something for everyone to DO? I sure enjoy those little rock bridges at the parks.....