Bubba, Jenks (10/12/2008 7:18:25 AM)

Hey teachers, if you will dump the union so that the worthless teachers can be fired taxpayers may be willing to vote you a raise up to $200 per day worked, that's like $50K annually for folks who work 12 months/years.

Mr.Mac, (10/12/2008 8:36:36 AM)

Hey Bubba will you also pay for all the insurance the union pays for my union dues protect me from lawsuits for using words like evolution and creationism. Even though I always respect both sides, I can't make everyone happy.

bm, Tulsa (10/12/2008 9:27:29 AM)

Hey Mr. Hippies Smell, I agree with you.
Unions had their place at one point in time. They are now only bloated institutions with political agendas and rarely serve the interests of the represented employees.

I'm still not seeing in the Constitution where it says that education is a Federal responsibility.

Latisha, Tulsa (10/12/2008 10:18:43 AM)

Where's all the lottery money they promised?

Bubba, Jenks (10/12/2008 10:21:57 AM)

Hey Mr Mac, if you are concerned about such lawsuits you should pay your own insurance. The teacher situation in this country is revolting, the majority of the teachers are in the business for the full time pay for doing a part time job. The pay you currently receive is in line with the hours you work, teachers do not deserve pay increases until they start working 2000+ hours per year.

BixbyDad1, Bixby (10/12/2008 11:46:34 AM)

I love it when ignorant people make ignorant remarks about teachers' pay. They love to do their phony math: Take a teacher's salary, divide it by 9 months, then multiply by 12 to calculate what she "really" makes, given her 3-month "vacation." The first glaring error is the assumption that a teacher could get a summer job making that amount of money. The reality is that teachers are basically unemployed over summers. Also, these same ignorant people flout teachers' 8AM-3PM workday; do these people actually know any teachers personally? If they did, they would know about the many hours teachers put in both at school and at home before and after the school day, not to mention the work they do over their summer "vacation" to prepare for the upcoming year. If you don't know what you're talking about, kindly keep your mouth shut.

Bubba, Jenks (10/12/2008 2:45:12 PM)

Another Reasonbaly,
Ask yourself this question, is a teacher paid any less per day of work than other educated professionals.

"Teachers bend over backwards to pull students along, give extra help and time to complete assignments, attempting to motivate and show interest in students with bad home life or negative attitudes (maybe like yours?) that stand in their way of reaching success."

My child leads a very good home life in a nice home with two loving parents, she is showered with affection and disciplined for making bad decisions.

Mr.Mac, (10/12/2008 4:01:17 PM)

In response to the testing question... I am certified in four core teaching areas and have tested and passed the tests. I would be happy to test in all four core teaching areas tomorrow am you name the place and I will take and pass the test. Second lets talk about my workday two days a week I start at 7:55am and end at 10 pm. Three days a week I only work from 7:55 am to 6pm. That is 58 hours per week. Yes I do not work over the summer that is only 9 weeks off for teachers (we start before the kids do). And I pay for my insurance via my union dues the district does not offer the protection I need or I would buy it from them. Gosh I don't know maybe the next time I get cussed at or attacked by q student I will just wrap it up and become a political candidate. Better pay less work and you don't have to prove yourself or take a test.

Mr.Mac, (10/12/2008 4:06:32 PM)

ps bubba that equals 2035 hours per year

MarkB, Oklahoma City (10/12/2008 4:55:54 PM)

Latisha the state legislature cut the percentage of the budget going to common education, which they used lottery money to offset.

concerned mom, Unknown (10/12/2008 5:23:11 PM)

I did not choose a teaching career because of the money. I chose to teach because I enjoy the education process and want to encourage children to rise above their situations, as I did, and make something of their lives. I arrive at my school at 7:30 and rarely leave before 4:30. Then I continue to work at home in the evenings; preparing for the following day. Often I must give up my 25 minute lunch or my planning period to deal with behavior issues or meet with parents. I also must give time without extra pay during my "summer vacation" to take further training. I ran some figures. The hours that I work each week and the hours I work during the summer, not including extra classes that I take, come up to approximately 2300. That places my "hourly wage" at $15.80. If I were unmarried, my children would qualify for free lunches. My 25 year old nephew, who recently graduated from OU, makes over twice what I earn in his current job, working only 40 hours per week. Any additional time he puts in is at time and one half, bumping his salary up even more. Let's face it; teachers are simply not paid a living wage here in Oklahoma.

As to the statement about the lottery; consider this when you're voting. The Oklahoma Lottery put $85 million into education during its first 8 months. To date the lottery has given education somewhere around $300+ million since it began in Oklahoma. The proceeds were to SUPPLEMENT state funding. However, our forward thinking leglislature voted to CUT funding to education almost every year since the inception of the lottery.

Mr.Mac, (10/12/2008 5:57:22 PM)

Oh bubba I forgot to add that I have an administration certification and am an adjucnt college educator in addition to public school teacher.

owen, Tulsa (10/12/2008 7:21:49 PM)

I knew that the comments would be mostly negative as soon as I read the article.
It seems to be a fact of life that public servants are thought of as exactly that---servants.
I hope that those who are so negative about education are home schooling their children.

What were they thinking, bixby (10/13/2008 12:44:40 AM)

58,000 for the School Year, thats to much for any teacher at k-12. I am not sure that Teachers even care anymore. If the child is a student great, if not pass them anyway. This entire system is broke. Any Teacher who feels they can make more money in the Corp. world, should leave teaching, make there millions. Then go back to it. I do have several friends and family who are teachers. I have a lot of respect for them. They Teach because they want to teach. They may feel under paid, but they don't whine about it. And yes all but one do have summer job's. And they pay as well as there teaching job's and in two cases they pay better. Do the Teachers not read the paper watch the news, the entire world is in the dumps. It sounds as if the Union did the right thing. Mr. Mac you do not impress me, you do not work 58 hours aweek unless you are involved with school activites, and if you are. Then you receive added pay, so you do it by choice.

John BA, Broken Arrow (10/13/2008 8:51:33 AM)

The NEA does provide professional liability insurance for its member which will pay for what the district will not pay for. They have to protect members from districts that are not financially sound, or where laws unfairly expose teachers to risk. The insurance is provided on a national basis, not on a state basis.

Teachers, and the educational system are not the problem. There are areas of the country where all the kids graduate from high school, and most go on to college. Where the majority go on to highly rated academic colleges. Their success is not because of the teachers, or some fancy educational system, or even anything they drink in the water. It is all because of the support they get at home and the importance their parents put on education. When Oklahoma starts putting education first in the home things will improve. Forget about athletics. Honor the top academic student, not the top football player.

Angry Citizen!, Bluejacket (10/13/2008 9:03:28 AM)

I can't understand why we'd look the other way while the State pays football coaches so well, and expect educators to absorb the higher costs of living.

idontgetit, (10/13/2008 9:56:50 AM)

Do I think teachers should receive better pay for what they do? YES
Do I think teachers work a LOT more hours than most people realize or teachers want to admit? YES
BUT, Teachers went to college to become teachers and accepted a job teaching in Oklahoma after being told all their lives and even in college while learning to be a teacher that they would be underpaid and under appreciated. Guys, you made the choice on your own, STOP complaining. Every teacher I know (20+) do it because they WANT to teach and only a few complain about the pay. Your pay stinks, sorry, that is what it is for now. Yes, it needs to change. Let's work on changing it not constantly complaining about it. Maybe, a few teachers should run for political positions to have a vote in congress, to introduce some legislation, to find a better way to fund.
But, complaining on a newspaper web site will not make it better and NO you are not going to enlighten anybody this way. Sorry

Mr.Mac, (10/14/2008 11:04:10 AM)

To all concerned. First I never complained about my job or pay. Second I do work the hours claimed wanna see my pay stub? Third the union protected me years ago when I asked a second grader to help pick up papers along with myself and the rest of the class. His momma sued me for violating his civil rights. The case is now a point of case law in colorado. Look folks I am not critical of your job, labor beliefs, or personal interests. Ir just chaps my hide when people are critical of all teachers and our union when they do not know all the facts. Have a blessed day

Cali, (10/14/2008 11:07:40 AM)

Teachers accept the position of teaching and the pay that accompanies the position. Teachers are educated to the duties, pay, and hours as they have to intern and know the responsibilities of teaching.
With that said, TPS reports 177 days of teaching in a school year, with approx. 7 hours of day, that calculates to be 1239 hours. The article states 32,900 as first year salary,my math calulates 26.55 an hour starting pay!! Pretty good money for just starting a job.

Sure, I know there are proffesional days, this that and the other that but there are also planning periods to avoid working after hours and there are lunch breaks that are also included in the seven hours.

Okay, so let's say you really put in 2030 hours, 791 hours of planning, preparing, etc. which is more clerical and the complaint was....what about pay?

There are many jobs that require planining and preparing... if someone has a speech at work, if you are in the training department at a company, Administrative Asstistants do a lot of work and make less than teachers! Sure, they complain about being over worked and under paid, but nobody listens as it doesn't effect our children.

Diana D, madill (10/14/2008 6:43:52 PM)

Did the blanking lottery not do ANYTHING for education, i thought this would get their hands out of our pockets for a while. They deserve good money for what they do but good grief...

j70, (10/15/2008 2:25:57 AM)

If something isn't working right, it's BROKEN, not broke. Broke means not having any money...though that's pretty true, as well, these days.

And yes, comparatively speaking, teachers are not as well paid as other, equally-educated professionals. For that matter, I've known people who left other careers to become teachers, then WENT BACK to the corporate world, because it was easier.

If you think the teachers in the classroom with a Master's Degree and 25 or more years of experience are overpaid, then you don't want much for your children. That level of education and experience deserves a higher level of pay.

This is my 11th year of teaching.
I am still just barely above the poverty line.
You seriously don't get how little we actually take home.
Managers at QuikTrip make more than we do...and we have CHILDREN we care for and teach all day long. Seriously...isn't that worth something to PARENTS, at least?

I would like you to find out the going rate for child care. JUST child care. Just taking care of the basic needs of children for 7 hours. Pay me THAT!!! The hourly rate for a caregiver, times 7 hours a day, times the 24 children in my class, times 177 days. It would be a pay raise for me, I can tell you.

I'll throw in teaching them not to hit, how to tie their shoes, reading, writing, spelling, social studies, math, science, p.e., art, music, foreign language, handwriting, organization, and manners (not taught much at home anymore) for FREE!!

The teacher's associations aren't unions. They do represent us in grievances, our dues go to pay the delegates who negotiate our contracts and work for better working conditions for teachers. They make sure our rights aren't violated in disputes, but they can't keep us from being fired. It's not like the Auto Workers' Union. It's also illegal for us to strike.

Don't get me wrong, there are a million things I love about teaching...and I knew it wasn't a HIGHLY paid profession when I went into it...but you can't pay your bills with students' crayoned notes, as precious and fulfilling as they are to get.

The "raise" we get this year is a pay scale increase...it's not additional. I will wind up with $33 extra on my paycheck each month. My insurance is going up more than that in January. Forgive me if I'm not calling the paper MYSELF to let them know how overjoyed I am with my "raise."

Truth Patrol - there actually is a lot of collaborative and social learning going on. Have you been IN a classroom recently? Have you heard of Microsociety? Teachers may be taught one way, but we teach whatever way WORKS.

Joshua77, (10/15/2008 1:03:42 PM)

As the husband of a third year teacher and a volunteer and a mentor at my wife's school I am appalled and downright disgusted with all the ignorance that I am reading on this page. Let me remind you folks of something, if it wasn't for people like my wife, who dedicate themselves to their jobs in and out of the school, all of you wouldn't even be able to live the cozy lives that you must lead. Have you ever tried to teach a young person how to read when half of the time they can barely speak a word of English? How many of you so-called "experts" on the teaching profession have been physically attacked by an emotionally disturbed child that was forced into your classroom because nobody would do anything about it? How many times have you been put on lockdown because of a nearby drive-by shooting or robbery? I would venture to say that none of you have. My wife and many other teachers like her experience this on a regular basis to try to give your children the best education they can get and all you people have to say is they don't work 2000 hours a year?

Let me tell you something, these so-called planning periods that my wife gets during the school day are swallowed up by administrative meetings and conferences. The 20 minute "lunch" my wife gets is inevitably disturbed by a child who can't behave. As far as the myth that teachers get three months off a year is a lot of nonsense. My wife goes into summer teaching a month of summer school, followed by two weeks of professional development conferences and workshops. Most of those are out of town, taking her away from her family. She then spends up to a month preparing for her next school year.

Just a reminder to you parents out there, teachers are not instructed to train your children on manners, behavior, social issues, personal hygiene and the like. That is your job. My wife has a family to help raise also. Regardless of what you all think, teachers are human beings who have to put up with alot more than you'll ever encounter.

Also, to put this into perspective, my wife gets paid once a month, and it would barely cover the mortgage, utilities, food, and gas, were it not for me working also. $3000 a year comes straight off the top of my wifes salary to pay for our childrens insurance. $900 per paycheck comes out in taxes and other deductions. That's only once a month remember. Could all of you who are complaining that teachers don't work enough live on less than $2000 a month. Probably not.

Just to give you an idea of what my life was once like, I was a locomotive engineer for a large railroad in Chicago. I made a low six figure income. Out of the 4000 plus hours a year I "worked" I probably did 500 hours of actual work. I guess I was overpaid also. I am also willing to bet that most of you have supposed real jobs working 2000 hours a year probably don't do 2000 hours worth of work either. So I guess that means that all of you are overpaid also. Get off your high horses and realize that the profession of teaching leads to all other professions. Without them you wouldn't have a job at all.

Old Meanie, (11/2/2008 3:37:25 PM)

Hey, here's an idea: let's just fire all the teachers and close all the schools. We'll save so much tax money that the rest of us can afford to live on one income and have one parent stay home and homeschool the kids, because surely out of every pair of parents there's ONE who has the credentials to teach everything the kids need to know from K-12! You know... the bachelor's degree in every subject area plus a bunch of education classes, plus student teaching and experience with kids at every stage of development. Single parents will just have to find something else to do with the kids during the day, because they knew what they were getting into when they got divorced or decided to have kids out of wedlock or whatever they did to get themselves into that situation.

Then we can close all the universities too and just buy a professional football team or two so we have something to watch on Saturdays in the fall. Because why should we pay for all those fancy college professors to drive their Hondas and Volvos and teach about all those things that are really only "theories," like relativity and gravity and such?

That'll show all those overpaid teachers who don't have to do real jobs. Maybe they'll all move to New York or California. Good riddance, I say.