Tony G, Tulsa (11/12/2008 6:13:26 AM)

Affordable health care should be a top priority, instead, they push health insurance.
Insurer's get rich, and limit health care choices.
Also--insurance only covers 80% of hospital stays, so if you or your child spends any length of time in the hospital, the bill YOU are responsible for could cost your life saving, or force you into bankruptcy.

Tony G, Tulsa (11/12/2008 6:23:11 AM)

About the hospital--close it, but do NOT allow OSU to move the residency program.
I believe, OSU would find a way to keep the hospital open.
I believe OSU is making a fortune off this program, and need to pay their fair share.

matt w, Tulsa (11/12/2008 8:15:52 AM)

Now if they do a State Trust, that could be a little better because then the queen won't be in charge of it. If they do a City trust than it is doomed. My only question is, why is Kaiser always involved in every decision that the queen makes? Next time maybe he should run for mayor and then just buy everyone to get his way, it is a little more direct than the approach he is taking now.

TransferTulsan, (11/12/2008 8:41:04 AM)

It's about time that our great mayor has finally acknowledged this very serious issue. What took so long...

Eric, Tulsa (11/12/2008 8:52:39 AM)

"I believe OSU is making a fortune off this program..."

Tony G - perception IS greater than reality!
You don't have the facts to back up that statement.

As I posted, earlier this morning:
The implications of closing OSU Medical Center are crystal clear.

Here's my domino theory:
> loss of a viable healthcare workforce;
> fewer applicants applying for admission at the College of Osteopathic Medicine;
> layoffs of OSU-CHS faculty and staff;
> closure of OSU-CHS;
> loss of OSU med grads staying in Oklahoma to help in the rural communities.

Folks here in Tulsa and Oklahoma City don't have to worry too much about health care.
And OU certainly has a good med school, but most of their students either leave the state or stay either here or in OKC.

What about health care in the other 75 counties?
Who is going to go to east Podunk to fix Bobby Joe's lacerated ulcer?
If it ain't an OSU med grad doing that work, it sure it heck won't be a OU med grad.

So, what is the bottom line?
Sure as spit, Oklahoma will fall (once again) to the bottom of a national list, this time in provider health care.

Tulsans especially should be supportive of pro-active results to keep the OSU medical program viable.
Unfortunately, we have way too many people like Tony G that just say "no".

matt w, Tulsa (11/12/2008 10:49:51 AM)

Personally I don't agree with the queen's idea of making everything under the control of a "trust". When most of the people in Tulsa have no trust in any of the people in charge because we have been lied to and tricked on numerous occasions. I would feel better (not too much) if it were a state trust rather than a city trust.

tulsaGuy, (11/12/2008 12:10:40 PM)

Just make sure OSU-Tulsa drops their teaching of osteopathic medicine and associated flim-flam.

Remember, osteopathy is not currently well researched. Claims for the efficacy of osteopathy are testimonial-based and not evidence-based. One placebo-controlled trial showed that osteopathy is no better than sham treatment for chronic nonspecific lower back pain, although the authors acknowledged the difficulty of providing a non-therapeutic sham treatment or for pain after knee/hip surgery.

RN@OSUMC, Tulsa (11/12/2008 12:23:39 PM)

Something needs to be done ASAP, before Dec 1st, because all the nurses on my unit have been give transfer forms to work in other Ardent facilities. I personally want to stay at OSUMC, but Hillcest and Bailey are the choices I put on my transfer forms. If something is not done soon, there will be no nurses left to staff the hospital, we have mortgages to pay and families to feed. We cannot wait much longer. HELP ASAP!!!!!!

kyote, (11/12/2008 12:45:16 PM)

Another trust for the royality in tulsa. She needs to mind her own business and try to be a mayor and let people of knowledge handle everything. But then of course she know the solution to everything and it is her way or none. How much has she put the city in debt since she has been on the throne.

tulsaGuy, (11/12/2008 1:04:38 PM)

kyote, Mayor Taylor doesn't have a history of speaking out of turn. In addition, she hasn't shown an overbearing presence, either, during her tenure. The city is in no danger of going bankrupt as far as I can tell.

Eric, Tulsa (11/12/2008 1:06:27 PM)

Careful there, tulsaGuy!
Your ignorance of osteopathic medicine could give you away!

Anyone who is even remotely curious about the difference between a D.O. and an M.D. would be wise to visit the American Osteopathic Association website and learn.

Fact is, both D.O.'s and M.D.'s get the same medical training and have to pass the same board exam.
The key difference is that D.O.'s get an extra two years of training that result in patients being treated as a whole person rather than someone with a symptom (the old "take-two-pills-call-me-in-the-morning" routine that plagues the M.D. image).

But please - don't let me try to convince you otherwise.
Sometimes ignorance is bliss...eh, tulsaGuy?

tulsaGuy, (11/12/2008 1:17:28 PM)

The "take-two-pills" thing is a myth in part propagated by osteopathic marketing. Ask an osteopath what it means to treat "the whole person." You'll get an uncertain, unquantified, gobbledy-gook answer. The fact is M.D.s TREAT THE WHOLE PERSON. Osteopathic method is just trying to come up with some way of differentiating itself with some pseudo-science delusion for the public... many time self-delusion. It can take up to two years for the young osteopathic brain to buy into the flim-flam... but once it's done, you have a full time it-works-because-I-manipulate-you true believer.

eyes open, (11/12/2008 1:24:07 PM)

Over the past several months may people have used this issue to make personal statements and verbalize complaints about the osteopathic doctors. This issue is not about MD's from OU verses DO's from OSU, this is a health crisis that will impact everyone insured or uninsured. I'm not sure that anyone reads comments posted after a news story in the paper or on a local tv channel, however for those that do, please write the powers that be in the state of Oklahoma and encourage them to keep the OSUMC and the OSU-CHS in partnership. This must happen to insure quality care to the population that uses OSUMC as well as continue to train excellent physicians for Oklahoma. Information indicates that Senator Wilson has developed a business/medical plan that would allow this to happen. (a win/win situation for all parties) Recent articles and information seem to indicate that B. Hargus and Dr. Fernandez from the OSU school of medicine and Earl Denning from Ardent are pushing the issue be decided before this plan can be introduced at the next session in February. I wonder if both groups really want to see the hospital close???? Dr. Fernandez cannot say he is looking out for his residents when is is willing to write several programs off because St. Francis cannot take them. The residents in all the areas have signed a petition to keep the hospital and medical program intact. They do not want to leave the hospital or those they care for. There are so many issues and emotions tied to this that I urge someone with a clear head to find the truth, put a plan in place, and continue the partnership. We need the State funding, but I urge everyone involved to not let political views allow a healthcare crisis that will surely impact all of our lives.

tulsaGuy, (11/12/2008 1:33:45 PM)

eyes open, A house built on shaky sands likely will not stand. Right Now, the present, this instance, is always the perfect time to examine ones means... not the ends.

I'd really look to see if an osteopathic medicine center is the type of shaky (or manipulated) sand we need to build a house on.

okpride, (11/12/2008 4:02:19 PM)

eric, in your response to providing healthcare to rural areas isn't that what the new ou community medical school is for. so the new ou medical school will provide for what the osu medical school provides for currently. then why is there the need for two medical schools if both their purpose is to provide healthcare to rural areas. what is going to force the closure of the osu medical school will not be the closing of the hospital but the presence of the ou community medical school. the economics of tulsa will not support two medical schools. do you guys remember oru in the 80's it was forced to close because there was not enough demand and it was redundant to have two medical schools in tulsa. your concerns should not be about the hospital closing but with another competition in the tulsa area.

have you guys ever driven by or been in that hospital it is the worst conditioned hospital i have ever seen. how can you even call the services rendered there healthcare. the machines there were the originals invented by alexander graham bell and isaac newton. that hospital is marginal at best.

the facts are the state does not need to take on another business that is a money pit. the state does not need to allocate funds or start a trust to something that is beyond repair. where is the state going to find these funds? they are going to raise taxes. thats what we all need more taxes to pump back into a flailing business that will have no impact on the economy. the mayor should be more concerned about developing other areas of tulsa to generate more jobs and help the economy. NO NEW TAXES!!!!

Eric, Tulsa (11/12/2008 4:03:41 PM)

If I read tulsaGuy correctly, s/he wants to throw the baby out with the bath water.

Sorry s/he can't see the bigger picture.
Too many people like that.
And when all is said and done, they wake up one day wondering what the heck happened.

okpride, (11/12/2008 6:58:32 PM)

four years ago osu was ranked highly in primary care and rural medicine but because of what has transpired they are no longer ranked in the most recent us news and world report rankings.

i wonder what the rankings in a couple of years after ou community medical school is established. i also wonder if there will even be an osu medical school in 5-10 years. ou's new community medical school has filled the role of the osu medical school

NO NEW TAXES!!!!

okpride, (11/12/2008 7:00:19 PM)

also why is there an osteopathy when there are chiropracters. aren't they the same?

NO NEW TAXES!!!

Anne M. Green, Tulsa (11/12/2008 9:11:16 PM)

Transfer Tulsa - Ditto. It has been 2 years that this deadline for the residents has been looming and FINALLY there is a reactive proposal from the Mayor.

kyote - "She needs to mind her own business and try to be a mayor and let people of knowledge handle everything."

As far as I am concerned she IS minding her business....indigent care in the city's center. And as to the "people of knowledge", they apparently were asleep at the wheel, that is why they did nothing but squabble for 2 years and now it may be too late to save OSUMC.

So, for all the griping and moaning I do against the Mayor, this time I say she is at least making the effort to strong arm a coalition of selfish procrastinators by offering a solution. It is a start. If her attempt fails, then I will be there dogging the Mayor again, because it was as Transplant Tulsa said, "too little, too late."

flyingnurse, (11/12/2008 9:26:20 PM)

OSU is a very important asset to not only Tulsa, but eastern Oklahoma as well. Part of the problem was allowing a for-profit company (Ardent) to operate a significant indigent care facility. OSU physicians are some of the finest that I have ever met. I do find it refreshing that most of them have names like "Chuck" or "Larry" or "Kathy", not an impronouncible collection of consonants who hail from a far away land that our government is trying to bomb!

OSU needs a facelift, and some major facilities work, but the staff is good, the hospital necessary and it is nice to see politicians stepping up! My only objection is to the statement that OSU provides a massive number of rural physicians. It is true that OSU produces more rural healthcare providers than OU, but I'll bet that most OSU grads are still found in communities with a Starbucks and a BMW dealer! This is NOT the venue to address that isssue either though...this is about saving a hospital, keeping beds available for the poor, and making sure that a whole bunch of dedicated hospital staff (RN, LPN, CNA, RRT, endless dedicated support staff) all keep decent jobs as our country is going broke.

It would be nice to hear less arguement about DO vs MD from this crowd. This is about saving a hospital that cares for a lot of poor people. They don't care who signs the prescription, they just want to be well...take the argument over semantics somewhere else!

Let's find a solution to keep the hospital, fix it and make it a not for profit facility. Include the opinions of the rest of eastern Oklahoma as well Mayor Taylor...we need that hospital too!

ICU-RN, Tulsa (11/13/2008 12:13:08 AM)

flyingnurse, THANK YOU! WELL SAID!!!

okpride, (11/13/2008 1:28:15 AM)

phil:
why does where i am educated come into the argument?
if your son practices medicine with two other m.d.s and he doesn't use manipulation and there is no difference between the group then why are there d.o.? it seems that the "extra training" done by the d.o. can be done by chiropractors, so why even have a whole profession devoted to it. why not just have m.d. and chiropractors? if there is no difference between m.d. and d.o. why have it? you said it yourself your son practices with m.d. but never uses it why be trained in it.

i saw the news6 special on the situation and it seems very expensive. where is the state going to find the funding for this "public trust" for the hospital? from the money tree that grows in okc? no from taxes. so a tax will be issued to support the hospital.

how is the hospital losing money? there are tens of thousands of people being seen everyday according to the special. that is business. are these people not paying? there is something set up in our government called medicaid. it pays for people that doesn't have insurance. the hospital is a teaching hospital and from my understanding the hospital gets federal funding for being a teaching hospital. there is absolutely no way that hospital should be losing money unless it has been poorly managed. there is enough business and compensation from medicaid, medicare, and federal funding for the hospital to be self sustaining. but it is losing money because of BAD MANAGEMENT and BAD BUSINESS. why should the public pay for bad business management.

this is a sad example of a poorly ran business. if a business is poorly ran it shuts down it happens everyday. the state doesn't come in and setup a public fund for "joe bobs" restaurant because joe bob didn't know how to manage a business, and that should not be the case for osumc.

ICU-RN, Tulsa (11/13/2008 1:36:27 AM)

okpride, So do you suggest that, for instance, you just lost your job is this terrible economy, medicaid isn't going to cover you, then you have a heart attack and need stent placement. You come to the hospital and we tell you at the door, "I'm sorry. You have no insurance. You just have to die." Is that what you suggest that we do?

And, news flash, medicaid sucks! They tell us all the things that we can and can't do, then pay a fraction of the cost. Also, not everyone can just get Medicaid.

okpride, (11/13/2008 1:42:24 AM)

flyingnurse:

i really feel for the hospital staff that has been caught up in all of this but there are more than enough hospitals in tulsa to help the poor without osumc. st. john's is a wonderful hospital with wonderful facilities and state of the art care. by your own accounts you agree the facilities of osumc needs to be upgraded. hillcrest is another good hospital on northside that can help provide good adequate care for the poor.

if the hospital closes then the extra er visits that news6 talked about will go to either st. johns or hillcrest based on location. those two hospitals will be forced to hire more staff to accomodate the extra patient volume. if you are a good healthcare provider then you should have no worries about getting new jobs within these two hospitals.

i am actually for putting more money into st johns or hillcrest upgrade those up to date hospitals as opposed to saving a hospital that is beyond saving.

okpride, (11/13/2008 1:49:28 AM)

icunurse:

i never suggested turning away the poor. there are plenty of hospitals in the tulsa area that can provide adequate care. for instance if what you proposed in your statement happened to me then i would go to st. johns and get a stent placement.

a good managed hospitals would find other ways to make money to help offset the income loss for providing care for the poor.

it is not a coincidence that ardent the management company of the osumc has had a less than stellar track record for keeping hospitals opened. look up their managed hospitals and tell me how much of them are opened still. many of them are now closed.