Echos, tulsa (1/23/2009 6:22:11 AM)

You got that right Kaiser but since when did the government give a rats about the people???? The government is in bed with the big businesses. Nationwide. We dont mean anything to them. We are just ants in their little workforce.

Echos, tulsa (1/23/2009 6:23:36 AM)

"We want to incentivize an industry that has been very good to Oklahoma," said Miller, R-Edmond.
Idiots, how about the taxpayers?????

Isaac Parker, Tulsa (1/23/2009 6:45:38 AM)

Socialism is on the march now with the new administration in charge. The government (taxpayers?) now owns the banks and will probably nationalize the oil companies and health care systems in the foreseeable future. Hold on to your pocketbooks... big government is here to "help" us all.

tulsan09, Tulsa (1/23/2009 6:57:01 AM)

Isaac......."YAWN"

bearway, Jenks (1/23/2009 7:55:56 AM)

I hope the small companies still get their incentive. Otherwise eliminating this is just a way to eliminate the little guy oil companies.

Echos, tulsa (1/23/2009 8:14:53 AM)

2curious, The only reason he gives to charities is for the tax write off! That all. Rich people only give money away only if it benefits them. So why does he not give bonuses to his people?

Tulsa Life, (1/23/2009 8:23:07 AM)

righton you are sooo off. George Kaiser treats his employees very well. And only writes off for tax benefits? Are you serious?? He gives as much as Bill Gates does and is worth a fourth of what he is worth.

You all find a reason to attack anyone. Very pathetic..

Graychin, Eucha (1/23/2009 8:23:25 AM)

Echos, that's ridiculous. No one ever made money on a "tax write off" from charitable contributions. If you give $100 to your church, you get back perhaps $30 from your tax deduction. You're $70 poorer from your donation. And it works exactly the same way for very wealthy people like Kaiser.

I see comments here all the time that only low-income people want tax breaks for ordinary working people. God bless men like George Kaiser. And Bill Gates. And Warren Buffett.

Boone Pickens? Not so much.

"Although he has never made a decision to drill based on incentives..." Thank you for being honest about at least this, Mr. Sullivan. And to think this guy wanted to be governor.

Tulsa Life, (1/23/2009 8:24:00 AM)

And to add. Which employees do not get bonuses? That is a flat out lie..

Dr. Strangelove, Tulsa (1/23/2009 8:41:27 AM)

Graychin- spot on. I will also add that the donor may not even have a tax liability at all due to loss carry forwards, investment based tax credits, etc. in which case they really see very little impact from a charitable contribution.

The assertion that a wealthy individual would donate to charity solely for a right off is ludicrous beyond words.

Ignatz, Broken Bow (1/23/2009 8:50:27 AM)

I believe this is all silliness from der Kaiser. He knows the Repubs won't pull the plugs on any handouts to the wealthy oil interests. This is all for show. I can't believe he suddenly thinks the "working poor and middle class" deserve help from the Repub legislature after a lifetime of supporting measures to undercut their ability to find footing in the work force. Maybe he has a fatal disease, has found the Lord or is angling for some humanitarian award. Don't trust the guy. Is "incentivize" a real word?

PR, (1/23/2009 8:57:29 AM)

righton, Echos - He doesn't believe in sharing the wealth? He does what he does to benefit from tax write-off's? People that know and work with George know your comments are empty, baseless garbage that have no place in reality.

Dr. Strangelove, Tulsa (1/23/2009 8:59:14 AM)

Ignatz- could it be posturing to cozy up to our new pres?

Eric, Tulsa (1/23/2009 9:01:29 AM)

Regardless of what some of you might think about Kaiser, I have to ask:

What is wrong in helping our fellow Oklahomans who are hurting?

Do you only worship the oil interests in this state?

Odds are good that many of the people hurting are small business owners, family members who were laid off and other once-productive members of our neighborhood, city and state.

Shame on you for disparaging someone who dares to speak out for what is right:
Give us taxpayers a break!

Tulsa Life, (1/23/2009 9:05:11 AM)

Thank you Eric!!

FYI Kaiser is ranked #3 for most giving Americans. He gives about the same as Bill Gates even though he is worth considerably less...

Echos, tulsa (1/23/2009 9:11:26 AM)

Greychin I can tell you dont claim donations on your tax return. I however do and I get it back. 100% not a small percentage of it.

Floyd R Turbo, Rural (1/23/2009 9:27:35 AM)

I've always wanted to be a philanthropist.

Dr. Strangelove, Tulsa (1/23/2009 9:29:02 AM)

Echos- your knowledge of tax accounting is stunning.

You only get back what your tax liability was for the amount donated. At best it will be whatever % tax bracket you are in. Think about it, if you got back 100% then we'd all just donate 100% of our incomes and pay no tax, right?

Unfortunately it doesn't work that way.

Floyd R Turbo, Rural (1/23/2009 9:34:58 AM)

Where do I apply?

Ignatz, Broken Bow (1/23/2009 9:40:20 AM)

It all depends on who gets the contributions, some are limited by the amount you can claim and some aren't.Eric, I'm all for everything Herr Kaiser said, but considering it came from him and the audience he was addressing I can't help but believe there was a lot of winking, snickering and kicking each other under the table from this cold-hearted bunch.

Tulsa Life, (1/23/2009 10:13:01 AM)

Considering it came from? So it can't come from someone who is rich in the industry? It has to come from someone who is poor or not in oil to make in valid?

And Strangelove is right. Echo from what it seems like you are cheating on your taxes lol.

Also Kaiser relatively more of his income to charity than 99% of Americans..

Graychin, Eucha (1/23/2009 10:19:08 AM)

Echos -

Don't listen to us. Ask your accountant or your H&R Block person, or whoever. Or do your taxes on TurboTax with and without a contribution and see what the answer is.

Then write back.

TheLastWord, (1/23/2009 10:30:30 AM)

I once read that newpaper reporters are taught to write articles at the 5th grade reading level.

Echos must be their poster boy;)

Tulsa World Staff Writer Randy Krehbiel, Tulsa (1/23/2009 10:59:11 AM)

Point of information:

Mr. Kaiser also opposed these incentives when they were first proposed several years ago.

Dr. Strangelove, Tulsa (1/23/2009 11:08:24 AM)

Thanks for the info Randy- guess that blows my Obama theory out of the water, haha

Stick61, Tulsa (1/23/2009 11:19:10 AM)

Kaiser's thinking is admirable. He cuts through the conventional-wisdom baloney. The legislator quoted in this story seems unable to get beyond the incestuous cycle of pols and corporate types doing one another favors.

zzx375, BA (1/23/2009 11:24:19 AM)

"Even the most hardscrabble oil and gas producer or working interest owner is in far better shape right now than the average taxpayer in this state," Kaiser said."

The obvious question is "how does he know"?

Some of the fish in the Oklahoma oil and gas pond are minnows, not the big fish like a George Kaiser or a ConocoPhillips.

I know one independent producer who employs all of five people.

missy...m, my town (1/23/2009 11:30:36 AM)

By George give him a raise.....Listen George,its ok to know who you are but lets try maybe comin down for some air once in a while and deflating some of that head of yours,somethings are best kept to yourself,take for instance myself,do I go around and tell everyone that Im qwite the looker and bubbly Iam,No they can tell by my postings on here.

Tulsa Life, (1/23/2009 11:58:57 AM)

Bville Yellow Dog, Bville (1/23/2009 11:26:10 AM)
"I know one independent producer who employs all of five people."

....and makes a bundle

Hhahah Thank you Bville. Not to say these guys have made money over the decades. But over the last few years even the smallest producers have made a bundle..

Tulsa World Staff Writer Randy Krehbiel, Tulsa (1/23/2009 12:03:51 PM)

Doc --

I think GK impressed Obama when he gave him that big campaign donation back in March '07.

Popeye, T-Town (1/23/2009 12:46:05 PM)

Disdain for successful people does little to promote your "side" of the proposal discussion. Success is still an American dream, hopefully it always will be.

You shouldn't "covet" BYD, which is sort of what it sounds like you're doing... "Poor baby" = Poor taste, BYD.

Kaiser's suggestion seems a little biased. Large firms such as his, would be able to continue business as usual, smaller firms would struggle. Most technological advances and new ideas seem to come from small firms, or even individuals. I would be reluctant to take incentives away from them, just when we may be making headway in (well, maybe not with Obama now) locating resources closer to home.

Legal Citizen, (1/23/2009 1:00:31 PM)

Bville yellow: Why do you hate wealthy people so much? Y

concernedpapa, Kiefer (1/23/2009 1:01:55 PM)

If any oil producer hasn't made money in the last 4 years, they should get the here's your sign award.

Legal Citizen, (1/23/2009 1:05:45 PM)

Grayshin: "Although he has never made a decision to drill based on incentives..." Thank you for being honest about at least this, Mr. Sullivan. And to think this guy wanted to be governor."

>> and for the rest of the quote:
"... the money went for salaries or to pay for more drilling, Sullivan said.

(We wouldn't want that, now would we?)

"Sullivan has increased his activity as a result of the incentives, he said,.."

Now what was your point again?

Popeye, T-Town (1/23/2009 1:08:04 PM)

Randy K.:
""Point of information: Mr. Kaiser also opposed these incentives when they were first proposed several years ago.""

And why would he, of all people, do such a thing? What's in it for him?

zzx375, BA (1/23/2009 1:22:45 PM)

"But over the last few years even the smallest producers have made a bundle.. "

Tulsa Life, how do you know?

Interesting how an unsubstantiated comment comes to life and becomes "true".

The question is entirely reasonable.

missy...m, my town (1/23/2009 1:34:17 PM)

air heads

Tulsa World Staff Writer Randy Krehbiel, Tulsa (1/23/2009 1:50:33 PM)

Popeye --

I don't pretend to understand the energy business. I just know he's been against this from the start. I've never heard that he has any vested financial interest in this, but I couldn't swear to it. My impression is GK just thinks this is a poor use of tax incentives. I've known the guy a long time, and he really does have an interest in public policy and doing what's right.

Popeye, T-Town (1/23/2009 1:59:39 PM)

Thanks Randy, that's (believe it or not) enough for me to lighten up a little. I confess I'm more than a little skeptical of many such moves. Maybe they seem too good to be true?

Popeye, T-Town (1/23/2009 2:00:09 PM)

Outstanding avatar, BYD!

Sir Coris Markus, Armpit, USA (1/23/2009 2:06:22 PM)

I agree Popeye! LOL BYD avatar made me laugh today. I love IT!

Stick is right on this on.

Popeye, T-Town (1/23/2009 2:10:24 PM)

Who is it? Osama bin Poodle?

prairiegirl3, on the move (1/23/2009 2:39:20 PM)

Actually (being an English teacher I can comment) the newspaper is written at 6th grade level - but it is so the MASSES can understand it. Even then, as evidenced in this article, people misread, misinterpret and mistake not only what is said, but intent.

redbird, Tulsa (1/23/2009 3:07:36 PM)

Nice comment, prairiegirl. Let's give Kaiser the benefit of the doubt and assume he's trying to help Oklahoma. These days I'm willing to give lots of people the benefit of the doubt. There's been far too much cynicism these last several years.

zzx375, BA (1/23/2009 3:11:40 PM)

I'm all for the benefit of the doubt.

But simply because Kaiser says everyone in the and gas business in Oklahoma is better off than the average tax payer doesn't necessarily make it so.

Dash Riprock, Edmond (1/23/2009 4:03:01 PM)

I don't think it really matters what any of us think about what George Kaiser says about this. He does realize what most of us are finding out daily, that we have not seen in our lifetimes a far reaching economic crisis as the one we are currently facing. ANY new way to help the general public...us...make it, is worth a try. Are any of us realizing that this has a MAJOR domino effect? People have no money to spend, going into savings just to make it, companies laying off, which effects the stores, restaurants, etc. etc.. You get the idea, WE must help... us, and not soon...now. I'd like to see more ways to keep the money I earn, I'll listen, that should be paramount on everyone's mind right now, what's the best way to put some money back into our pockets? Mr. Kaiser had an opinion, we should listen.

tulsarepublican, (1/23/2009 4:21:30 PM)

George Kaiser is a very sincere, kind and generous person. Not all employees receive bonuses; however, we employees have been assured that our jobs are not in jeopardy during this recession. I much prefer keeping my job and foregoing a bonus. Just consider the big spending ways of the executives at Enron, Goldman Sachs, Bank of America, who the taxpayers are now bailing out. George Kaiser has earned my respect.

Sir Coris Markus, Armpit, USA (1/23/2009 4:52:45 PM)

Popeye, T-Town (1/23/2009 2:10:24 PM)
Who is it? Osama bin Poodle?
--
Actually, It kinda looks like that Big Red Dog the one that use to have those big Yellow glasses except this time he is wearing red ones! LOL Maybe he is working for the NSA or on some special mission out there in the middle east.

Tulsa Life, (1/23/2009 4:58:45 PM)

ZZX because my family has been in energy. Very good friends are in oil and gas, and I work with oil and gas companies.

If you havent made money in the last few years you have no business being in the industry in the first place..

kyote, (1/23/2009 5:02:01 PM)

OK if Mr Kaiser is serious then, then let him find a way to do away with property taxes and make it a sales tax that everyone has to pay not just property owners. If everyone paid it would be a small tax, and make it by county.

2curious, Tulsa, OK 74104 (1/23/2009 5:03:03 PM)

Hey....where'd my post go?????

tulsa citizen for now, (1/23/2009 5:03:09 PM)

For such a state like Oklahoma - to be blessed with natural resources like oil and gas - and, to be so poor....there must be something going on. I happen to think G Kaiser is on the right path. Somehow, this state has given away its resources and as a matter of fact, is thinking of giving away its water. It's time to rethink the royalty system used by the oil companies.
As for donations - it is true, it is not a dollar for dollar benefit - but, not all benefits are in cash returns - sometimes, business is conducted that way.

Kilgore.Trout, Tulsa (1/23/2009 7:04:26 PM)

George Kaiser is the best thing that has happened to Tulsa and it's citizens in a long time.

When I drive around town and see the wonderful work the George Kaiser Family foundation has done I think how lucky we are he's from Tulsa. His foundation improves the quality of our lives through the projects he has funded.

George Kaiser we Thank You!!!!!!

Popeye, T-Town (1/23/2009 7:59:14 PM)

Osama bin Afghan? Code name: Stan?

tulsagerry, Tulsa (1/23/2009 8:36:14 PM)

If there is a MAN who mirrors some of Tulsa's giants of the past, it's Mr. Kaiser, too you! Any man who attempts to give this stupid town $100 million dollars, and is rejected by those wise ol' fuzzy christians from Broken Arrow, deserves a sainthood for hanging around! That's right folks, HE IS VERY SMART! And, YOU'RE NOT!

dog walker, tulsa (1/23/2009 11:10:55 PM)

George Kaiser is the most generous person in this state. We are so lucky to have him here in our city. He, is also, humble and kind. Do a little research before you attack truly good people.

lil sparrow, Midwest Flyway (1/24/2009 7:34:42 AM)

tulsagerry and dog walker

you 2 are absolutely right. mr. kaiser is a very good and generous person, like mr. zarrow.

zzx375, BA (1/24/2009 9:11:45 AM)

Tulsa Life,

I am not trying to throw rocks at anyone. Notice, no where in this or prior posts have I stated that Kaiser is incorrrect.

Whether or not anyone has money in oil and gas in Oklahoma in the last few years is not to what I am speaking. That is another discussion.

George Kaiser's quote (and other comments here) imply possession of complete, detailed knowledge of a body of information in a particular area.

Kaiser (and others) have made a claim but have offered nothing specific in support of the claim.

Kaiser could be correct in such a broad statement. But let's all hope that any legislative action is based upon solid data and not simple opinion.

I wonder how many here would be arguing in the same fashion if Kaiser was advocating raising these breaks for Oklahoma producers?

zzx375, BA (1/24/2009 9:13:03 AM)

Correction: Whether or not anyone has money ...
Should read: Whether or not anyone has made money ...

tulsagerry, Tulsa (1/24/2009 10:56:47 PM)

FOOLS!

tulsagerry, Tulsa (1/24/2009 11:09:50 PM)

Dear ZZX375, Mr. Kaiser won't pay your way! However, with his kind philanthropy, it might provide some hope that will help you on down your lonely highway! Remember, NEVER LOOK A GIFT HORSE IN THE MOUTH, TOO OFTEN! All the Best!

zzx375, BA (1/26/2009 1:24:26 PM)

tulsagerry,

I'm not asking anything of Kaiser other than how do you know?

Thankfully our courts still require claims to be substantiated.

Floyd R Turbo, Rural (1/26/2009 3:10:34 PM)

Do I have to go to philanthropy school first?

Floyd R Turbo, Rural (1/26/2009 3:11:47 PM)

It must pay really well. I've never heard of a poor philanthropist.