dTHREE, TULSA (4/27/2009 3:11:46 AM)

The payback has begun.

beaux, Tulsa (4/27/2009 3:48:54 AM)

First year sales are always strongest. I supported building the BoK Center, and I still think it's a good idea.

But, unfortunately, if they don't continue the trend of booking big acts, the sales tax revenue will tank.

Tulsa is slowly but surely gaining the population neccesary to justify even bigger name acts coming to the city.

Mayb one day, a professional sports team?

marlin, (4/27/2009 4:57:02 AM)

I'd say Mr. Bolton deserves a raise.

I also think Mayor Taylor needs equal merit for making downtown a safe and clean area again. The efforts of these two combined is what our success with the BOK Arena can be attributed to, along with the best fan base in America.

Daven, Tulsa (4/27/2009 6:00:48 AM)

Thats great!!

eddieo, Tulsa (4/27/2009 6:45:32 AM)

Maybe the arena will be the savior of our streets... or at least a good start!

HH66, 912 Project (4/27/2009 6:55:28 AM)

It is like the casinos. Maybe worse. Every dollar is takes in, is a dollar that may have been spent at a restaurant, movie theater, or some other local venue. Most of the money will leave town in the pockets of the big name entertainers. New dollars for Tulsa only comes from those from out of town who to events, some spending their money in Tulsa at the expense of the restaurants in their fair towns and cities.

It is the same game as the Federal government is playing. There are only so many discretionary dollars available to spend. If the government takes it away by virtue of taxes, they will not be spent to support the businesses you need to make you happy. In fact when the Federal government takes money, it more often will go to states like California who recklessly spend more than they can afford.

Eagle 4, Tulsa (4/27/2009 7:15:30 AM)

Nary a compliment to the taxpayers who voted for and approved this building, only kudos to the coincidental mayor and the mahout of our huge, working elephant.

And the profit is to go to a "contingency fund for the venue." As usual, even profit does nothing for the taxpayer, who ironically accounts for the sales tax generated also. Give and give and give...

Guess what? As soon as the honeymoon is over, the "venue" will be screaming for more taxpayer dollars to keep it afloat...and free of the Pellini stains down the sides. I really don't care to complain but history just keeps repeating itself in Tulsa - our leaders' only "successes" are finding ways to empty our pocketbooks.

Dr. Strangelove, Tulsa (4/27/2009 7:26:43 AM)

HH66- try getting a restaurant reservation within 5 miles of downtown when Fleetwood Mac rolls in this Sunday.

HH66, 912 Project (4/27/2009 7:34:13 AM)

Doc, I didn't say money wouldn't be spent. I was explaining that each dollar spent at this venue is taking away a dollar from another. It's called competition. Every entertainment business in Tulsa is being taxed to pay for its competitor. And much of this Oklahoma money is going to be on a plane leaving town with the entertainers, instead of being plowed back into the local community.

Paula, Midtown (4/27/2009 7:51:23 AM)

OK let's put some real facts behind this article. Less than 1/2 of the $2.3 million goes to the city and county that put up the money. The math comes up to approximately $1.6 million per year in city/county tax revenues. The time it will take to pay back the $200 million cost plus interest is over 180 years.

The money just won't add up no matter how you try to spin it. And this doesn't even take into account the police overtime the city is having to pay for. So let's stop trying to sell something that's already sold and using a method that doesn't even add up. Makes me wonder what the real reason for these articles are. Is there going to be a V2025 part deux?

Now don't get yer you-know-whats in a wad. I voted for it, but not for financial reasons. I voted for it for quality of life reasons and I'm glad we have it.

Daven, Tulsa (4/27/2009 8:02:57 AM)

HH66, so you would rather Tulsans go out of town and spend local money in OKC or Dallas to see these shows? People come to our city to see these acts. Some stay the night, eat, shop, etc. Spending out of town money in Tulsa.

As more and more big names come to town and development in downtown continues, even more money will come. So tell me where the downside is to that.

Tulsa Life, (4/27/2009 8:10:38 AM)

Paula lets put some real facts behind it...aside for sales tax. The revenues that the BOk Center that is being put into these downtown businesses will make a huge impact. Especially since a lot of this money comes from outside of Tulsa.

Not to mention, what Daven expressed with more money staying in Tulsa from the BOk center.

I think there will be financial and quality of life impacts. Also quality of life reasons impact financial ones at the end of the day.

righton you need a woman (or man)...because you are always upset about something..

BottleCap, BA (4/27/2009 8:11:09 AM)

beaux....we have professional sports in Tulsa. Drillers baseball is professional and so is Oilers hockey. They may be minor league, but that is professional. I think you mean major league sports. Tulsa just isn't a sports town. It won't support a major league team long term.

Lets just hope the sales for the bok arena continue so we (the citizens) can petition our government to end our funding of it early. I'd love to see the arena be self sufficient.

Shooter, Tulsa (4/27/2009 8:11:09 AM)

This is a very postive thing for Tulsa and the whole Tulsa area. The BOK Center is thriving even during a recession. Just image how well it will do when the economy is doing better. People in the Tulsa area dont have to travel to OKC or Dallas to see a big name act, plus it keeps the money in the community. I have been to several shows and have enjoyed them all. It is an amazing building, inside and out.

chase, rogers county (4/27/2009 8:19:18 AM)

Daven,the down side is the convention center was built for the same reason,it had crowds for a couple of years,and like the new arena it to will go good for 3 years and go by the way side like the convention center,the people going out of town for concerts are very small,and people coming from out of town is also small.so enjoy while you can,until the next Mayor will have other priorities for the city.

tulsandn, Boswell / Tulsa (4/27/2009 8:23:24 AM)

Tulsa is minor league and will always be minor league, why even kid ourselves about professional sports ???

Tear down this building before it's too late and the debt soars out-of-control and our city infrastructure declines then fails and finally falls back into the hands of those Indians who are surrounding us in every direction(those are casinos, they are cleverly disguised outposts "forts" hiding WMDs)....

Stop building and plannig before it's all too late !!!! Anarchy is just around the corner !!!!

tulsandn, Boswell / Tulsa (4/27/2009 8:25:17 AM)

Those "aren't" casinos......

I mistyped....

Dr. Strangelove, Tulsa (4/27/2009 9:09:11 AM)

righton, you honestly have no clue. Have you been to a show there yet? Or moreover, even gone downtown, or to Cherry St. or Brookside lately?

I love all the talk about the BOk taking away from other businesses. Folks, the money that is being spent there is discretionary income, most of which was being shot straight down I-44 or I-35 before the BOk was built. The negativity on the boards is astounding.

Ignatz, Broken Bow (4/27/2009 9:15:52 AM)

Richie, 2% return on anything of this type is a heck of a good investment.What is the profitable return on buses, subways, public hospitals, homeless shelters, the fire and police depts, our judicial system? I imagine most folks with 401k's would have been very pleased with such a return last year. Suceess of this venue obviously reflects how starved Tulsa area was for top-notch entertainment.

LeftieTulsan, Tulsa (4/27/2009 9:17:13 AM)

Wow, it used to be that the arena wouldn't make enough to keep the lights on. Now, it's being compared to snake oil salesmen up there.

"All these fast talkers with their horse pills come into town and swindle ole 'pa outta his gold chips."

It really is astonishing that there aren't more houses in Tulsa with barbed-wire fences, moats, drawbridges, and closed-circuit cameras. Some of you people really think that everyone is out to get you. This is one of those times I am truly ashamed to cohabit the same city as some of you absolute freak shows.

Tulsa Life, (4/27/2009 9:25:54 AM)

Richie Havens if you believe that the sales tax from the BOk Center is the only return on the investment then you are sadly mistaken...

Mike S, Tulsa (4/27/2009 9:41:28 AM)

Richie - you're overlooking other revenue streams, like arena naming rights, clubhouse boxes, and concession rentals.

And you're overlooking other city-wide revenue factors, such as people coming from outside Tulsa city limits. They spend money on food and hotels.

If anyone thinks only Tulsans are spending money at the BOk, you need read some of the other articles in TW and UrbanTulsa which have interviewed people from far and wide who brought their wallets to Tulsa for BOk Center events.

DowntownNow, (4/27/2009 9:43:04 AM)

Tulsa Life...perhaps you can provide more direct examples of the other benefits from the BOKCenter besides return on investment? Where is the promised surrounding development? Where is the increased revenue for businesses and restaurants during times events are not going on? Where are the new hotels the arena was supposed to justify? And dont tell me the new Atlas, that business model is predicated on the business core, not the arena.

Fact is, this arena is located in a poor location, had no property to develop around it, has yet to have a sell out capacity crowd, costs more to operate that it is taking in once you account for the initial investment, there is easy to access parking, etc etc.

Had it been located say in the east end or where the ballpark is going, there was plenty of room for surrouding development to take place, plenty of entertainment and restaurant businesses to compliment it that doesnt rely on just the event nights, easy access from several highway access points, greater area for large lot parking (or structured)...

Sorry Tulsa Life, the benefits here are not outweighing the cost. There have been no quality of life improvements for the greater Tulsa area out of this arena. Any potential profits are going into a fund for BOK operations and maintenance, not into City coffers to make improvements for insfrastructure.

DowntownNow, (4/27/2009 9:47:40 AM)

Also the Tulsa World needs to be a little more subjective in its compliments to Mayor Taylor, it was LaFortune that implemented Vision2025 and began the BOKCenter...not Taylor. She just happened to be Mayor when it was time to cut the ribbon...and thats been about all the participation she's had in it.

Oh, lets not forget that due to planning and logistical errors in factoring the location, that we now miss out on weekday events such as seminars and symposiums, since we can not accommodate daytime events without the fiasco of what happened during the first and only daytime event when it opened.

Buttercup, (4/27/2009 9:49:08 AM)

HH66, you are ridiculous. Good lord people... give some credit where credit is due! This is obviously money that WE WOULDN'T BE SEEING OTHERWISE!!!! Geez.... get a grip people. Must you find negativity in everything? I am so happy I don't have to be around you naysayers day in and day out.

I say the City deserves a pat on the back for this.