HONES, T-Town (8/20/2009 1:39:53 PM)

What-A-Mess.

Marguerite, The world is my home... (8/20/2009 1:40:50 PM)

Very good point, Chief. It's okay for Tulsa to own tax-free land in an already-poor county like Delaware but bemoans potential revenue lost to the tribe in Tulsa County? Besides, the city had its chance and couldn't agree to get anything done. Instead of whining, the city should consider some sort of compact with the Creeks like the state has with the tribes on gaming and smokeshops.

ddb283, (8/20/2009 1:54:44 PM)

yakimoto-I suppose your more proud of land theft and murder, right? The native tribes deserve tons more than just rights to land and tax exemption.

golfwife, (8/20/2009 2:00:52 PM)

It is such a shame that Tulsa is depriving Delaware County of much needed tax dollars.

Are not the great Tulsa leaders smart enough to realize that it will be a win win situation if the Creek Nations is successful in getting this land in trust.

mike2000, (8/20/2009 2:07:03 PM)

I suppose ddb283 is referring to the theft and murder that Native Americans perpetrated on each other for centuries prior to the European arrivals. Or perhaps he is referring to the theft and murder of African Americans when the tribes enslaved them.

Red Ryder, (8/20/2009 2:12:33 PM)

Hmmm. I think Chief Ellis may have somewhat understated the issue. We'll see what the story tomorrow says, but it's a fact that the City of Tulsa owns all of the shore line of both lakes Spavinaw and Eucha - and have for decade upon decade - tax free. This calls out the City of Tulsa once again. First, they claimed a municipality can't condemn land outside its own city limits, yet Tulsa did precisely that at the Port of Catoosa (and probably in Delaware County). Now they say it's not fair to own land that you don't have to pay taxes on and they're among the biggest culprits. "Yeeow! Aye-yip-aye-yo-ee-ay!"

flub-a-dub, (8/20/2009 2:23:59 PM)

Interesting point, Red Ryder. That raises a question on the 100 foot easement from these lakes to Tulsa for the waterline that delivers water to the city. No telling how many acres are involved. I'm sure no taxes are being paid on it as well.

flub-a-dub, (8/20/2009 2:28:37 PM)

A 100 foot wide easement that is one mile long contains over 12 acres. How far is it to these lakes from Tulsa?

chikaskia, (8/20/2009 2:29:08 PM)

the river and it's critters can't type and don't speak english or mvskoke anyway,but if they could they would say: "we don't want another bridge, you have destroyed enough of our habitat as it is!" the tribe has already razed many old growth cottonwood and pecan on those tracts it 'owns'.
it seems clear what higher power is being worshipped here~

Ex Adverso, (8/20/2009 2:30:32 PM)

Red and flub: Right smack on the nose!

Red: LOL on the "Aye-yip-aye-you-ey-ay". For the unenlighted, that's from the state song and means "you're doin' fine" - which, of course, with regard to Native American sovereignty we ain't.

Red Ryder, (8/20/2009 2:36:41 PM)

Flub-a-dub, that's over 600 acres just for the water pipe easement alone. If memory serves, we've had that land for over 80 years. Figure the back taxes on that!

chikaskia, (8/20/2009 2:42:15 PM)

hmm, it's obvious some of my buttons got pressed here, eh? i wish i lived in a world where smokeshops and gambling closed down for lack of business, and the indigenous were known for their ecological leadership

Pogo Today, (8/20/2009 3:04:09 PM)

Google Lake Spavinaw and Lake Eucha and you'll find, combined, there are 4,553 tax-free surface acres, too, NOT including the shoreline. Certainly worth taking note of.

PapaBear4172, Muskogee (8/20/2009 3:07:39 PM)

db283, (8/20/2009 1:54:44 PM)
yakimoto-I suppose your more proud of land theft and murder, right? The native tribes deserve tons more than just rights to land and tax exemption.

So stuff that happened hundreds of years ago i'm responsible for in some way? This line of thinking is perposterous. If you look at it in this context then I'm owed kazzilions becasue my ancesters were murdered by nazi's. But to i get a check every month? no. Do i cry on anyones shoulder that would listen? no. I live my live the best i can. AND YOU SHOULD DO THE SAME AND STOP CRYING.

baro, (8/20/2009 3:22:17 PM)

I am sick and tired of indian tribes puying up public land and paying no taxes on the land after it is brought. Who will maintain the bridge if and once the indian tribes builds it...me an oklahoman taxpayer, The federal government should STOP all indian trust land withot making the tribes paying taxes.....also, the state should fine anyone using an indin car tag if they don't also have a state tag...i knowthe courts say the tribes can sell the tag....state can say--yes you can sell them all you want....but the individual will be required to also purchase a state tag....recognize the tribe as a special tag like all special tags in OK, we still have to buy a state tag.

Ex Adverso, (8/20/2009 3:32:49 PM)

Baro, surely you know by know it's going to be a toll bridge. That means it pays its own maintenance. You won't owe a dime unless you drive on it.

I also suggest you invest in spell check and grammar check.

Ex Adverso, (8/20/2009 3:44:06 PM)

Looks like I could use spell check, too.

Big Stick, (8/20/2009 3:44:40 PM)

Who will pay for streets to be improved to handle the additional traffic? Who will pay for the intersections to be widened? Who will pay for the traffic signals? If the answer to each of these questions is the Creeks, then let's get on with it.

If the Creeks are not willing to pay for all of the infrastructure improvements, I am against it. The Creeks must pay to play.

tnt091605, (8/20/2009 5:04:54 PM)

The Tribal Nations are getting rich off of the citizens of these communities!!!! The only way to combat this is for Oklahoma to legalize gaming and level the playing field so the money goes to improve the quality of life for everyone!!!!

not your friend 2,,,, missy, no thanks (8/20/2009 6:03:20 PM)

Someone shooting a big stick and dont even know its a stick.Play to pay ha?Oh really?I think the Creeks have paid long and hard and personally I think its not been yesteryears either.Now I admit,I dont hold too much weight when it comes to the casino's,but unlike many who think they do not pay a price just to be an American Indian today better think twice.

Graybeard, Tulsa (8/20/2009 6:16:51 PM)

Parasitic politics. The Tribes have a loophole with the US Government with Sovereign Nation status....and they are leeching the Lifeblood of the municipalities with the law, while gaining highly profitable gaming venues.

Tulscl, Tulsa (8/20/2009 6:40:02 PM)

It would be great if all of the card carrying Creeks, living in Tulsa, could have their houses and land put into the trust also.

Ayo, T-Town (8/20/2009 10:14:28 PM)

No point in responding to most of these whiny comments. The majority of the complaints in some of the above posts have already been argued in court. It really doesn't matter how sick you are of indin(sic) car tags, casinos, thousands of jobs in this state, and millions of millions of dollars pumped into the state economy. You're screechy voice sings a silent song on tribal sovereignty.

btw, what does your car tag say? It says:

Native America

I'll leave you with a goot(sic) joke.

Know why America was the first to put a man on the moon?
>>> They heard there was an Indian up there with 10 acres.

That's my all time favorite joke.

You people need to just relax.

not your friend 2,,,, missy, no thanks (8/20/2009 10:33:37 PM)

Hey Ayo,that was funny.

DirtyWhiteHouse, (8/20/2009 10:41:29 PM)

no big deal, we will beat them again handily.