FuglyDude, (9/2/2009 8:42:10 PM)

so does this mean they are going to create a six lane highway from the bridge, straight up riverside to the creek ca-SIN-o??? that would be GREAT!!!

Graybeard, Tulsa (9/2/2009 8:42:35 PM)

If the Tribe is successful in this venture, then should it provide its own water, electricity, natural gas, sewer treatment, fire protection and police protection? After all, it is a Sovereign Nation and should be able to stand alone and be totally self-sufficient.
Is that reasonable?

Four Sixteen Rigby, Tulsa (9/2/2009 8:56:50 PM)

Jurisdiction. Jurisdiction. Jurisdiction.

Will the tribal police be writing tickets on the bridge?

flub-a-dub, (9/2/2009 9:08:13 PM)

The last I remember BC was going to personally deliver the Tulsa City Council resloution to the BIA in Muskogee and save Tulsa from these pesky Indians. Apparently he made it back with his scalp.

Now, six days before the election that decides his political fate, BC is going to save Tulsa again. Yet he has obviously not talked to Wisner nor any other tribal member to ask what's going on or to ask what's in it for Tulsa. Let's face it folks, a toll bridge and a development of such size would necessarily require widening 121st and Riverside Drive in order to be successful.

BC has been anti-development since he first sat at the city council table. Instead of asking "Why not?", he stubbornly asks "Why?". When our city is desperately searching for additional sources of revenue, one would think BC would be actively courting the Creeks. He's not interested in resolution. BC, I'm calling you out. When are you going to pick up the phone and call Wisner? When are you going to ask the Creek Nation about intended road improvements or possible sales tax revenue? When are you going to treat these neighbors of ours like neighbors? Get off your grandstand and get to work! I for one want answers before we start drawing conclusions.

flub-a-dub, (9/2/2009 9:36:05 PM)

BC,
How do you know there won't be proper infrastructure? How do you know the city's tax base will diminish? How do you know this commercial development will not generate sales tax for the city? How do you know this development will cannabalize sales taxes? How do you know that tribal land development plans are bad for the city?

YOU HAVEN'T BOTHERED TO CONTACT THE CREEKS TO DETERMINE THEIR INTENTIONS OR WHAT'S IN IT FOR US!!! Don't be creating fear until you have all the facts.

Wizzened Old Timer, (9/2/2009 9:41:21 PM)

I stay off indian property. You should too. And not because I don't gamble. Think, for just a moment, who would be liable for anything, *anything* that happened to you or your personal property while on indian land. The Creeks (and the Cherokees) are sovereign nations - think "France" - and then figure if it's worth it. It's not, in my estimation. If they are successful, don't use the bridge (it will be a toll bridge, anyway), and vote against any issue to finance infrastructure improvements to support it, or the shopping center around it. Let them figure that into their plans.

flub-a-dub, (9/2/2009 10:12:18 PM)

BC,
Tomorrow you are going to "unveil" the supposed conceptual site plan for the Creek's south Tulsa development and Arkansas River bridge. Don't you think it wise to discuss their plans with them first before you talk about something you know nothing about and insert your foot-in-mouth once again?

Ayo, T-Town (9/2/2009 10:14:22 PM)

This is so early in the decision process that whatever it is that Christianson has is not a final decision. He's full of ca-ca is what he is. Don't fall for it.

PoncaWarrior, Shawnee (9/2/2009 10:38:34 PM)

Hey world have a look at this - These genocidal maniacs - are talking about playing on a level playing field. It's known as treaty rights - Under US Gov protections - Although - The US Gov has been seriously lacking on those
protections - Oh forgot most of them are genocidal maniacs too - Tribes need to
start going to the world court - Which handles these treaties made with all the
tribes across - These United States - and well find out how many trillions they
owe us.

Tribe's plan for bridge and other development to be divulged Thursday
Councilor Bill Christiansen
“I’m not against the tribe developing land in Tulsa, but it must be done fairly,
where everyone is competing on the same playing field,” he said. “We have to
protect the city and small businesses.”

cc: senators on Indian affares.

PhoenixIX, Jenks (9/3/2009 6:00:16 AM)

RE:" Where does it stop? "

This is a valid question.

I respectfully submit that it's long past time for the Indian Tribes to join the United States of America.

WE are "One Nation,under God,indivisible, with liberty and justice for All"

Fromtheright, Tulsa (9/3/2009 6:01:10 AM)

If a bridge is needed then it should be authorized by our elected state or county officials, built with available surplus tax money and it should be FREE to cross. End of discussion.

Graybeard, Tulsa (9/3/2009 6:26:44 AM)

We are not "One Nation, under God, indivisible, with Liberty and Justice for all", PhoenizIX. All the Native American tribes have Sovereign Nation status which basically allows them to do whatever they darn well please within the borders of the United states of America on their land. They can build and operate casinos, regular Americans cannot, and they can use the huge profits to do whatever they want. These facts don't bother me as much as the arrogant attitude of this particular Tribe.
They've pretty much drawn a line in the sand, daring the City to cross it.
Maybe they should not only have their own police protection, but fire protection, power, natural gas and water supply, not to mention sewage treatment facilities. After all, they want to stand alone.......is this reasonable? It's almost like Quebec wanting to cede from Canada.

Thunder196, Tulsa (9/3/2009 6:36:26 AM)

Bill Chistiansen is doing exactly what the council is suppose to be doing. Asking questions about tough issues, that will impact Tulsa in regards to revenues. If we didn't hear anyone questioning these things, they wouldn't be doing their job.

Mr_Breeze, (9/3/2009 7:00:33 AM)

Betcha 10 bucks BC won't be re-elected...
At least I hope he won't be re-elected after what he did to the development of Plaza del Sol and 101st and Mingo

rememberme?, (9/3/2009 7:43:46 AM)

wow....housing not subject to CoT zoning? This is frickin scary. I guess this will be a little mini reservation set to Fed Gov standards? I'm sure the million dollar homes just to the north of this little disaster will be THRILLED!

clear vision, (9/3/2009 7:49:43 AM)

Good for Christiansen. The bridge builders couldn't get their way on their own, so they enlisted the Creeks to help them. The Creek Nation already has lots of untaxable land and businesses in south Tulsa County for their casinos and smokeshops. If they want to develop businesses on land that they purchase, then let 'em pay taxes like the rest of us.
They claim soverignity and that this was all Indian land at one time. That's true. But once you sell it to a non-Indian, you shouldn't be able to try to claim tax-exempt trust status on it again.

tulsandn, out in the woods (9/3/2009 8:08:36 AM)

There are bigger and better ways to invest Tribal money....I hear there are good deals in Real Estate these days, buy it up, collect it like jigsaw puzzle pieces until we own all the pieces and then redo the puzzle the way we want....

Think big and become big, there are bigger prizes than Tulsa Oklahoma....

tulsa_common_sense, tulsa (9/3/2009 9:01:33 AM)

have no problem with the creeks doing this. it is there land. the problem is the city is just upset at the fact that couldn't get it done and wont receive a cut of the pie. whats funny is the majority want the tobacco sales to go away and dont like the casinos. so they have a plan to diversify and make that a smaller part of there revenue stream.

now if you had a chance to get in on this every one of you would be all over it. if you could get out of paying sales tax you would jump at the chance. this is why when this opens up and the lack of or lowered sales tax will bring you to this area to do your shopping.

now if the city was smart they would start to think how others have thought and start thinking ahead rather then looking at other cities and trying to copy someone else. Brick town was good for okc but wont be good for tulsa. we need something different. when someone comes up with a good plan and it doesnt cost the citizens anything by passing bonds then go for it. as long as its not our tax dollars.

for those complaining you have to first be honest and admit you shop around. you have to admit to going shopping in a lower tax area when you can. that is unless you always shop the mom and pop store in tulsa or your local city and never take advantage of any tax breaks.

Ex Adverso, (9/3/2009 9:13:45 AM)

Mr. Christiansen just isn't as plugged in as he thinks. The rendering I've seen shows a cigarette manufacturing plant, a winery, another casino, and a bordello. Also, the bridge and the entire development is populated with those electric billboard signs - all pointing due north. They've named the development Canton Creek Crossing and are joint venturing with a company from Saudi Arabia. Sign me up!

GrayNoseHair, Tulsa (9/3/2009 9:17:18 AM)

I hear there's a truck stop and a commercial helicopter pad, also.

Graybeard, Tulsa (9/3/2009 9:20:50 AM)

Whoa, TCS.
The City has no desire to develop that land. You are missing the whole point of the issue! The City will leave it up to private enterprise to develop the land. If a non-sovereign entity buys it and develops it, tax dollars are generated that help support the protection of it and its longevity in the community. Everyone benefits from the enterprise and the tax dollars...schools, fire, police, etc. But if a sovereign entity buys it, they can develop it and the City and County get very little if any money, and the local government still has to provide all the services to support and protect the people. It's a win-win deal for the Creeks....they have their cake, get to eat it all, and the City and County pay for their upset stomach to boot.
Another analogy is having an 1200 lb. gorilla come through your back door and take up residence in your house. You can't get rid of him, have to feed him, and he ridicules you 24-7. Why? He was on the Planet first and there are laws protecting his rights.

Shooter, Tulsa (9/3/2009 9:31:35 AM)

LittleFoot you called the city greedy, why does the Muscogee Creek Nation build this inside the city limits?? Because if they do the city is responsible for infastructure, police and fire protection yet they pay the city absolutely nothing as far as sales tax!! Like sounds like they are the ones who are wanting something for nothing. If they want to build fine do it outside of any cities corporate limits. They would be responsible for their own infastructure needs, police and fire protection.

The way it is right now if they do this the city is responsible to suppy all water and sewer lines, maintaining the streets surrounding the area. The police would have to respond to all Priority one calls for service, and the fire department would have to respond to any medical or fire emergency. Yet the Creek Nation doesnt have to pay anything to receive those services, and that is stealing plain and simple. They need to pay taxes just like any other business would, or do it outside of the city limits. These tribes need to quit leaching off the cities. They contribute absolutely NOTHING to cities they are in, yet demanding services that they do not pay for.

Shooter, Tulsa (9/3/2009 9:37:33 AM)

If this tribe is successful in getting this land the city needs to de-annex that area and let tribe be responsible for its own maintainance, and public safety needs. If they do I can tell you one Tulsa resident that will not spend one red "AMERICAN" cent on that land!!

Shooter, Tulsa (9/3/2009 9:55:29 AM)

Thank you Graybeard that was very well put, and your analogy of the 1200 lb gorilla was right on the mark!!

kyote, (9/3/2009 10:41:07 AM)

Gotta love the regional director of the bureau of indian affairs. Maybe the county should sell Expo Square to a tribe who will put it in trust.
Greybeard maybe all the tribes in Okiehoma should take all their land held intrust and secede from the state and union. Remember the history of the Indians and the broken treaties with the government. They didn't even have a vote on their land becoming a state.