Gail, Tulsa, Ok (12/12/2007 8:40:32 PM)

TO: #78: Yes, Oklahoma is an "at will" state, but there is law to cover wrongful termination. There are several case law studies to back it up, even in Oklahoma.

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The corp has Articles of Incorporation, then Bylaws, policy and procedures...etc...these all outline goverance and day to day operations. When a organization does not follow their own rules, then other areas of the organization come under legal scrutiny.

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The Plaintiffs want a jury b/c it will be on the Plaintiffs side b/c most people are living pay check to pay check.

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There are many cases that go down to the wire and then settled or mediated b/c if it goes to a jury the Plaintiffs nearly always win...plus the organization does not want their lack of following their own documented policies to come under legal fire from others looking to file a law suit.

MO Alum, (12/12/2007 9:04:01 PM)

Since the BOR is trying very hard to drive a wedge between ORU and OREA legally. Can the Paintiffs settle with ORU but not OREA? With RR gone the University if off the hook and they go on. If I remember OREA was added latter since ORU was the professors employer. I think Richardson was claiming they were the same organization. Any lawyers out there who can shed light on this?

Juries - Gail, Tulsa, Ok, (12/12/2007 9:04:40 PM)

Gail, juries of "regular" people, don't like "professors". They have a tendency to consider them arrogant know it alls. It certainly won't be a jury of their "peers".

Fifty Dollar Fine, (12/12/2007 9:06:05 PM)

#10 Jack Evans - "We already know about the fear that prevailed -- and still possibly exists -- on the campus. Several have confirmed that.

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44 years in the making.

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"The suspension of critical faculties in favor of group-think amounts to indoctrination -- be at at ORU or a jihad rally in Pakistan."

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Or a klan rally or a Nazi rally in 1933 or a rally for Mao in 1948. Same mentality, same behavior, same consequences.

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"Certainly kids whipped into a frenzy of tears at the departure of RR is nothing less than the fruit of indoctrination."

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Nicely put. And I'm still wondering what kind of university needs a "first lady".

#85, (12/12/2007 9:07:06 PM)

MO, it's my guess that ORU wouldn't be willing to settle in a split. It would be all or nothing.

Fifty Dollar Fine, (12/12/2007 9:13:41 PM)

#39 MO - "We should all remember that C.H.Dodd pointed out 100 years ago the basic tenants of Christianity have been taught for 1900+ years. They included Jesus miraculous life"

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More like 1700 years. The Orthodox can't even agree with the Catholics and Protestants on Jesus' BASIC nature. See "the filioque clause" for more.

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"that confirmed his divine appointment,"

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Christians can't even agree to disagree on the nature of this supposed "divinity".

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"his messianic fulfillment,"

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Supercessionism.

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"and his promise to return."

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Of course, the when, where, how, and why, no one can agree on.

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"As you stray from these and a few other basic truths the bible becomes less clear."

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That's an ahistorical view of Christianity. Christians can't agree on even the basics and used to chop each other's heads off over this stuff, just like Muslims still do today.

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Can't really blame them -- when Christianity was 1400 years old, they did the exact same thing.

Fifty Dollar Fine, (12/12/2007 9:15:44 PM)

#85 MO - "With RR gone the University if off the hook and they go on."

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RR isn't gone. He's still a "spiritual regent", whatever the hell a "spiritual regent" is supposed to be. He'll be back.

Fifty Dollar Fine, (12/12/2007 9:19:26 PM)

#13 Bernie - "Hopefully, Sen. Grassley will put an end to this abuse."

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Nothin' doin'.

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He's not going to find anything wrong, it's all a big show for the money grubbers and hayseeds.

Gail, Tulsa, Ok (12/12/2007 9:21:39 PM)

TO: 86: Juries: Tulsa is a big college town. A lot of universities, with a lot of students all ages, and a lot of university employed people. I have been an expert witness in wrongful termination cases and assisted with the discoveries and other work product and they were mediated or settled.

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My hunch is it will either be mediated or settled out of court. As I said b/f mediation may be part of the employment contract with the professors. Personally, Swails has a case, but I am not so sure for the Brookers.

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The part I am watching for is the Fudiciary issues especially fraud. I have been researching these areas.

Fifty Dollar Fine, (12/12/2007 9:24:01 PM)

Oversensitive Christian-supremacy strikes again:

From the NYT:

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" NEW YORK (CNN) -- A Muslim man jumped to the aid of three Jewish subway riders after they were attacked by a group of young people who objected to one of the Jews saying "Happy Hanukkah," a spokeswoman for the three said Wednesday.

art.ny.subway.gi.jpg

The New York Police Department's Hate Crimes Task Force is investigating Friday's incident on the Q train.

Friday's altercation on the Q train began when somebody yelled out "Merry Christmas," to which rider Walter Adler responded, "Happy Hanukkah," said Toba Hellerstein.

"Almost immediately, you see the look in this guy's face like I've called his mother something," Adler told CNN affiliate WABC.

Two women who were with a group of 10 rowdy people then began to verbally assault Adler's companions with anti-Semitic language, Hellerstein said.

One member of the group allegedly yelled, "Oh, Hanukkah. That's the day that the Jews killed Jesus," she said."

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Nice going, Christians. Tis the season.

MO Alum, (12/12/2007 9:31:41 PM)

As I'm sure you know Dodd was trying to spell out the original message of Jesus followers post Pentecost, hence the 1900 year reference. I understand Christology and an number of other fundamentals were the result of lots of debate and violence. It took Roman Catholics hundreds of years to resolve the "of one substance" debate.

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At the same time many other Christian traditions (Eastern Orthodox, Coptic, etc) formed different views based on their own unique history and theological evolution (including what books belong in the bible). Thus my statement that we need to respect others since there are lots of points of view and many with strong biblical and historic support. I don't have to agree with someone but because of the rich diversity of Christian thought it would be wrong to label people heretics and blasphemers for no other reason than they hold a different point of view about an issue. The bible is just not that explicate on many issues. Pentecostals have strong opinions but so do many other groups.

dtaylor, (12/12/2007 9:34:25 PM)

94.

naa, we're all crazy...don't fight it...

MO Alum, (12/12/2007 9:39:21 PM)

Re: Q Train. "Just because you find a mouse in a cookie jar doesn't make it a cookie." Just because someone was raised in a Christian home or wears a cross doesn't mean they are followers of Jesus who have received the Holy Spirt's transforming work.

Gail, Tulsa, Ok (12/12/2007 9:45:09 PM)

I believe in Israel it is against the law to prosletye and they will arrest you attempt to convert anyone.

qqq, (12/12/2007 9:52:52 PM)

Mo Alum,

The difficulty is that your (admirable) point of view is very much in the minority even right here in these comments, let alone in the world at large.

Religious disagreements have a long history of ending in violence.

Pelagius, Norman (12/12/2007 9:53:32 PM)

#96, MO Alum....so that explains Hagee, I guess.

Pelagius, Norman (12/12/2007 9:54:31 PM)

#98, qqq - Thanks. Well said.

Fifty Dollar Fine, (12/12/2007 10:01:13 PM)

#96 MO - "Just because someone was raised in a Christian home or wears a cross doesn't mean they are followers of Jesus who have received the Holy Spirt's transforming work."

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Work, schmurk.

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Christian homes are among the most abusive homes in the country.

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That's why they produce serial killers and murderers of others.

dtaylor, (12/12/2007 10:10:15 PM)

now that you have purified yourselves by obeying the truth so that you have sincere love for your brothers, love one another deeply, from the heart.

Gail, Tulsa, Ok (12/12/2007 10:10:37 PM)

Pelagius, MO, qqq: It all comes down to each individual's comfort in their own belief system. I can only contol myself...no one else.

Fifty Dollar Fine, (12/12/2007 10:10:54 PM)

#97 Gail - "I believe in Israel it is against the law to prosletye and they will arrest you attempt to convert anyone."

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Sad, that christians are so obnoxious that it had to come to that.

Pelagius, Norman (12/12/2007 10:16:38 PM)

#103, Gail, thanks for the post. I worry less about controlling other people and more about protecting myself. I think real religion means you love your neighbor as yourself. When Jesus quoted that, he didn't specify that the rule didn't apply if your neighbor belonged to another religion. In Judaism, the great teacher Hillel said it in another way: that you would not do something to another that you would hate to have done to you. I don't want to be shot up by a card-carrying American evangelical gun-toting Christian. I thought Jesus said that Christians were to turn the other cheek.

dtaylor, (12/12/2007 10:20:36 PM)

there is no fear in love; but perfect love casts out fear, because fear involves torment. but he who fears has not been made perfect in love.

MO Alum, (12/12/2007 10:24:19 PM)

50 what is included in your definition of abusive? Why do you feel that Christian homes are to blame for serial killers and murderers? The shooter in CO was raised in a Christian home with a controlling mother. Whom I'm sure loved him but didn't understand how to help him since he obviously had sever emotional issues.

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For the record he didn't turn violent until he had left the church and spent several years on a spiritual journey. He read searched the internet and for a year attended alternative religious services based on the teachings of Alistar Crowley. Like YWAM they asked him to leave (according to the groups local leader) because he didn't fit in. To be fair these other religious experiences may also have had an influence on his actions.

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I know there are abusive homes from all religious and non religious backgrounds. I am not naive regarding human nature. However, every study from Barna, Focus on the Family and others that I've ever read in 20+ years shows that homes with strong Christian values have lower incidents of abuse and higher incidences of well adjusted children. According to those studies children raised in Christian homes on the average do very well. Not 100% but much better than non religious homes.

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I am not a psychologist or researcher but if there are studies to support what you said I would find them interesting, especially if they offer ways to minimize abuse in faith families. I'm sure others would as well.

Fifty Dollar Fine, (12/12/2007 10:27:13 PM)

#94 MO - "Pentecostals have strong opinions but so do many other groups."

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The only ideology shared by the 8 thousand Christian groups is that of exclusion and pretentiousness.