Tulsa World: Bill would let college students bear arms

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Bill would let college students bear arms

By MICK HINTON World Capitol Bureau
Published: 2/27/2008 1:28 AM
Last Modified: 2/27/2008 1:28 AM

OKLAHOMA CITY -- A bill that would allow some college students to carry concealed weapons on campus is headed for the House floor.

House Bill 2513 by Rep. Jason Murphey, R-Guthrie, was approved 14-2 on Monday by the House Judiciary and Public Safety Committee.

The bill would allow students to carry firearms on campus if they are at least 21 and are licensed to carry a concealed weapon.

"As long as students kept their weapons concealed, they could go into class with them," Murphey said.

He said he decided that the bill was needed after the Feb. 14 shootings that left six dead, including the gunman, at Northern Illinois University and an attack in April at Virginia Tech in which a gunman killed 32 people.

Murphey said the bill, which would apply only to public colleges and universities, would allow students to defend themselves, especially if they were being victimized by someone.

But the greater value of such a law would be that a potential shooter might be hesitant to come onto a college campus, he said.

"A gunman would not know who might be trained and could defend themselves," Murphey said.

"If you can walk down Main Street with a concealed weapon, you should be able to walk onto a college campus with one," he said.

Rep. Paul Roan, an Oklahoma Highway Patrol trooper for 25 years, voted against the bill, saying such a law could greatly hinder law enforcement.

"You wouldn't know who the players are," he said.

Because weapons now are banned, he said, police can tell if someone comes onto campus "with a gun for evil purposes."

Roan, D-Tishomingo, said the amount of training to qualify for a concealed weapon permit is minimal. Those who are granted licenses have to take eight hours of training that includes classes and practice at a firing range.

Roan said the bill would mean that a person who practiced with a simple kind of gun at a range could come onto campus armed with a high-powered weapon.

Murphey's original bill, requested by a constituent, would have changed the law so that a person could transport a rifle, shotgun or pistol "open and loaded" in a vehicle at any time.

He said the bill would have been patterned after the "Texas Travel" law, which provides that Texans can have loaded weapons in their vehicles.

Murphey said the committee did not like that version of the bill, so he decided to scratch that language and insert the new proposal regarding guns on college campuses.

Oklahoma State University spokesman Gary Shutt said OSU is tracking the bill.

Noting that students are not allowed to have guns on campus, Shutt said police still are evaluating the proposal.

Mick Hinton (405) 528-2465
mick.hinton@tulsaworld.com

By MICK HINTON World Capitol Bureau

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	Report Comment Tony G., (2/27/2008 6:11:39 AM) This is an over reaction to all the school violence. No one on ANY campus should have a weapon. I believe most of this is caused by allowing our schools to become to big and to impersonal.
	Report Comment Robert, Tulsa (2/27/2008 6:36:31 AM) This is nuts. It is an overreaction to an extremely rare event. You could save more lives by, for example, requiring people to wear helmets when they drive a car. Or outlaw bathing to prevent drowning. Or require golfers to carry lightning rods.
	Report Comment Dave, Tulsa (2/27/2008 6:44:43 AM) This is a good idea. The reason banks are robbed so often; and pawn shops are robbed so infrequently, is that pawn shop employees generally carry a pistol to protect themselves. There is no way to stop a car bomber or a crazed gunmen other than the use of blunt force.
	Report Comment Michael Phillips, Tulsa (2/27/2008 7:14:52 AM) Of course it is a good idea. I am trying to imagine how it would feel to be in one of those college classes and watching a gunman reload, while waiting my turn. People who think that this law would cause more shootings, need to read John Lott's, More Guns Less Crime. Thank you Rep. Murphey.
	Report Comment Graychin, Eucha (2/27/2008 7:17:54 AM) This is crazy, for all the obvious reasons. Is anyone in OKC working on a plan to pay the State's bills next year?
	Report Comment TulsaGuy, Tulsa (2/27/2008 7:32:38 AM) It is over-reacting to allow a conceal carry licensed person over 21 to carry their weapon to class? The bad guys are going to have guns on campus if they want them. Licensed or not. Why not the licensed good guys?
	Report Comment Tulsa Native, Tulsa (2/27/2008 7:41:22 AM) Yes. Encouraging more people to carry guns will certainly cut down on gun violence. We certainly know how responsible the average college student is. You republicans need a date with reality.
	Report Comment Vigil Ante, Tulsa (2/27/2008 8:15:07 AM) There seem to be a lot more gunmen striking at schools, churches, shopping malls parking lots, etc. This is a new reality for us all. When seconds count, the police are only minutes away.
	Report Comment jw, canadian (2/27/2008 8:23:39 AM) This is absolute insanity. But, that seems to be a requirement to be a Republican.
	Report Comment Larry, Somewhere else (2/27/2008 8:28:15 AM) As a human being I have a natural, God given right to self-defense. A person licensed to carry a conceal hand gun in Oklahoma has taken and passed a basic course in safe gun handling and the self defense laws in Oklahoma, They have undergone an extensive back ground check and been certified by the Oklahoma State Bureau Of Investigation to be a responsible, law abiding citizen. It is about time that the Oklahoma legislature recognizes that the world we live in can be a dangerous place and stops preventing responsible, law abiding citizens the means to protect themselves from the ever increasing number of predators at large in society.
	Report Comment Shooting off your mouth, (2/27/2008 8:42:18 AM) 7. 2/27/2008 7:41:22 AM, Tulsa Native, Tulsa I can see it now. After a few funnels of their favorite beverage, college students go out to the parking lot to celebrate by shoot their peace-makers in the air or at cars or at each other. What fun! Critical thinking is obviously not part of the process in OKC.
	Report Comment Heath Flowers, Norman OK (2/27/2008 8:50:34 AM) If you are interested in any side of this argument, please read this article (remove the extra spaces to make it work): w w w.blackwaterusa. c o m/btw2004/articles/0726sheep.h t m l It lays out the rhetoric and logic of this whole situation. Needless to say, the world can use more sheepdogs.
	Report Comment Heath Flowers, NORMAN (2/27/2008 8:52:33 AM) Also please remember this story that the World ran (remove extra spaces to make it work): w w w tulsaworld.c o m /news/article.aspx?articleID=070701_238_A1_hTeny75637
	Report Comment RKBA, (2/27/2008 8:59:57 AM) What gives some crazed campus gunman the right to decide if I'm going to live or not? A concealed handgun license holder has the right to protect his/her life ANYWHERE else where it is legal to do so in Oklahoma. Why not on a school campus, especially in light of all these school shootings? Are we essentially saying that we cannot have the right to defend ourselves? Look at the woman who stopped the shooter in her church in Colorado. If she weren't there, would those attendants still be around today? Be logical people; PEOPLE do the killing, guns don't. The last time I checked, we don't have social systems that routinely check the mental and emotional wellness of all citizens, so don't think that we can prevent shootings from happening. Law abiding citizens proficient in handguns and in possession of a CHL should be given the opportunity to defend their lives. And just to put things into perspective, many CHL owners and gun hobbyists get more range time than law enforcement officers. A lot of us do competitive shooting as well in IPDA or IPSC. I'm not discredting law enforcement, but wearing a badge doesn't automatically make you a good shot.
	Report Comment John, Tulsa (2/27/2008 9:11:32 AM) Tulsa Native: Your argument is that 21 year old college students cannot be trusted to have guns. Thanks to the Utah Supreme Court, every single one of Utah's public universities have had to allow licensed individuals to carry firearms on campus since 2006. Since then, there hasn't been a single school shooting. Students there aren't getting drunk and shooting each other, the streets aren't reminiscent of the OK Corral, and people aren't turning guns against themselves. Explain that please. Your argument is NOT founded by the data that is available.
	Report Comment Kids need guns, it's their 2nd amd right! (2/27/2008 9:14:14 AM) What about the mass shootings in public schools? Oooh, and the gang problems and bullying that goes on in public schools? Shouldn't our elementary, middle and high-school kids get guns, too? And the teachers, and the custodians, and especially the coaches. For a brighter future; give guns, not hugs. KIDS NEED GUNS!!!
	Report Comment John, Tulsa (2/27/2008 9:34:29 AM) All of you that think this is crazy, please read the second amendment of OUR constitution. If you have gun free zones, the only ones with guns in those zones are by definition, criminals. Think about the circular logic in that one for a minute. If you don't want to defend yourself that is your right, but you have no "right" to tell me that I can't defend myself or my family.
	Report Comment RKBA, (2/27/2008 9:52:02 AM) In response to the "KIDS NEED GUNS!!!" comment... You're obviously being sarcastic, but you do realize that many high schools in urban areas now have metal detectors at the entries, right? Additionally, while this bill addresses college campuses specifically, it does entail that faculty are also allowed to carry concealed. This has NOTHING to do with putting guns into everyone's hands.. that is such a typical anti-gun argument/tactic. All we are asking for is to allow those people who possess a concealed handgun license to carry CONCEALED on campus for self-defense in the event of a shooting or extremely dangerous event (and even then, the citizen can choose to stay hidden until police arrive or be proactive). Possessing the permit is not an automatic admission to engaging in a firefight.
	Report Comment Michael Phillips, Tulsa (2/27/2008 10:08:40 AM) It is my belief that those who are using sarcasm to discredit this idea are basing their argument on logic and common sense, but not the facts. It sounds good to say that increasing the number of guns on campus will increase the violence, but it isn't true. Those who go to the trouble to get a CCL, wouldn't bother if they had murder on their mind. Get an education on conceal carry. The NRA is eager to help anyone at their website, who is interested in learning about this subject. Once you learn something about this subject you will start to understand why even liberals in our state legislatures are voting for CCLs.
	Report Comment Brent, (2/27/2008 10:09:49 AM) The primary requirement to receiving a CCW license is that the applicant must be 21 years old. So most freshmen and sophomores won't be legal to carry. And those of you who were talking about giving kids guns, that has nothing to do with this. This bill will not hand out guns or licenses to kids. Also, it is illegal to carry even with a license into a bar or other place that primarily serves alcohol. So anyone "funneling their favorite beverage" is either illegally carrying, or at home. Oh, and wait, neither of those places are on campus anyways, so they are not affected by this bill. A CCW license is NOT a license to kill. Anyone who has a CCW and flaunts it, or commits a crime with it receives no more protection by their CCW than an ordinary person who commits that crime. This bill also the last time I studied it, does not make it legal to store a gun in the dorms, so worrying about guns being in a dorm room and picked up by other students that won't be happening any more than it is now. Also, there is a waiting period to get a CCW license that ranges from 60 days up to 90 days. So someone will not be getting one in a passionate moment and pack a gun onto campus. All this bill does is allow those citizens who have shown themselves to be law abiding to carry their gun onto campus also. They can carry that gun most anywhere else in society, and have not caused riots or mass murders, so why expect it on a campus. And about Roan's idiotic comment that one could practice with a "simple gun" and then carry a high powered weapon on campus, most guns that are considered "high power" are rifles or other long guns, and would not be covered under the Self Defense Act. If you want to call this bill crazy, go for it, but do your research first, or you risk making yourself looking like a fool.
	Report Comment Kids need guns, (2/27/2008 10:12:27 AM) to RKBA, I am not anti-gun. Guns are great, I own several. I feel there is a time and a place for guns. Littering school campuses with them will not help. I know a lot of college kids who aren't any smarter or more responsible than they were in high school (some earlier than that). Kids at that age are already thrown into a new world - living on their own, drinking and sometimes drugs, and a rollercoaster of emotions. Fear, jealousy, puppy love, plain ole right of passage "buck" fighting, hazing and even the same bullying that went on in HS. it can't be a very good idea to throw guns in the mix. I would much rather see armed guards or patrol men on campus than allowing every nutcase to bring a gun to school. Metal detectors are good enough for High Schools, why not for higher ed? Yes, I was being sarcastic, but honestly, that's how the 2nd amd nuts sound to me. Just because it's your right to bear arms doesn't make it a good idea in every situation.
	Report Comment Native American, (2/27/2008 10:14:42 AM) This is a great Bill...if students, professors or employees are allowed to carry a concealed weapon legally then criminals will think twice about killing innocent unarmed citizens!
	Report Comment D, Tulsa (2/27/2008 10:19:53 AM) This bill would allow COLLEGE students to carry a weapon. The concealed carry law would still apply. You would have to be 23 and have a permit. As an officer, I carry a gun most of the time when I am off duty. Those who have passed the requirements and completed the class should be able to carry the weapon where they go. And NO, the students could not get drunk and start firing their guns, That is still against the law..
	Report Comment Adam, Norman (2/27/2008 10:29:21 AM) If these people do not feel comfortable knowing that someone could legally have a gun with them on campus, then why do they feel comfortable at Homeland, Wal-Mart, the gas station, Arvest Bank, and everywhere except for government owned property and bars. You know those little signs on business doors that say no guns, those signs mean almost nothing and does not stop concealed carryers such as myself from entering with their weapon. At most it would be a trespassing violation. So don't feel "comfortable" just because there is a sign on the door asking us to please not bring our weapons in. Also, the only reason I don't carry on campus is because of the risk of expulsion. And please, anti-gun people, try to come up with some argument other than "I'm not comfortable" and "that's idiotic." Calling us idiots is just that, NAME CALLING. We could play that game too, but we have more logical reasonings for our point of view. I know liberals like to demonize objects and say that all people are good and can be rehabilitated, but get over it, objects aren't bad some people are just plain bonkers, evil, or both. I don't think that allowing guns on campus will prevent the shootings because most of these shooters are suicidal anyways, but they will limit the number of victims and if you don't believe that then you don't believe in cause and effect and that shows that you just don't pay attention to the world around you.
	Report Comment FYI, (2/27/2008 10:31:53 AM) As a retired police officer Rep. Roan is wrong...people with concealed licenses prevent mass killings on college compuses!

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