The Oracle, Tulsa (10/26/2007 5:50:22 AM)

URGENT!!Take away the tax-exempt status of the reverands,the so-called churches,and the assets.If the reverands and churches spend time and money influencing legislation,they are breaking the law.If they harbor law breakers,they are breaking the law.When they say "it's not the money".....it's the money.

Dover, (10/26/2007 6:27:59 AM)

They have to show that it had damaged someone?

As far as I can tell until that person actually has to move it shouldnt matter. All they have to do is show them a drivers license. Whats so hard about that???? Wouldnt this reverand be considered aiding a criminal after November 1??? I hope so. Hey illegals pack it up and drive or walk I dont care as fast as you can and maybe you get out of this hostile state before the first of November!!!! GO HB1804!!!!

Dover, (10/26/2007 6:28:53 AM)

It is really getting hard to see this traitors face in the paper all the time

BoomerSooner, Tulsa (10/26/2007 8:04:59 AM)

The Tulsa World article states: "the newly filed version of the suit includes plaintiffs who have been notified by landlords that they will be evicted unless they can provide a valid driver's license and a valid Social Security number."

Let's see: The additional plantiffs don't have driver's licenses (which means they are probably driving illegally--not to mention not being insured) AND they don't have valid SS numbers (which probably means they are not paying payroll taxes or filing a tax return). So now we have at least four more additional, blatant violations of our laws, ON TOP OFF being illegal immigrants...and this makes this makes sense to people like Victor Orta?!

Victor Orta is a disgrace to the ministry. Obviously, the Jesus in his Bible doesn't command him to obey the laws of the land.

mdc, Broken Arrow (10/26/2007 8:22:14 AM)

As an american citizen... I pay taxes... and therefore, i have a LEGAL right to vote on how my tax dollars are spent... just like everyone else that is supporting HB 1804. My vote is for MY tax dollars to not be spent assisting anyone that is not in this country legally. I don't want illegal immigrants getting government benefits, working on government contracts, getting medical care, getting education in public schools, or driving illegaly on public roads. That is MY RIGHT as a legal citizen. And I bet if you took a vote the legal citizen voters of this country would vote the same by a huge margin. So... let's let the people decide. That's how Democracy works... Let's see what the people want! Then Orta can take his lawsuit and stick it...

Tania, (10/26/2007 9:10:16 AM)

I can understand the thing about tax dollars.

But I disagree with all the disgraceful comments to pack the suff up and get out. Is that what Jesus told you? Jesus tols us to LOVE OUR NEIGHBOR. And he did not mean legal or illegal, black or white. JUST LOVE YOUR NEIGHBOR.

Have you recently looked at construction sites? Most of the people building your homes are Hispanic. Same about your favorite mexican restaurants (and not only mexican).

If all these people pack their stuff and get out, who will build your homes and cook your food??? You, fat americans? These people work hard for less money. Do you want to pay $8 for a pound of tomatoes?

And what about the american-hispanic families? there are a lot of families in this state where one spouse is illegal. Does it mean you don't care that these kids will have to grow up without mommy of daddy? Or the U.S. Citizen kids born from illegal parents?

HB 1804 is UNCONSTITUTIONAL! If it war for me, I would give the "qualifying" hispanincs (here i mean no crime history) a chance to stay here and pay taxes like the rest of us do, I would give them a chance to raise their children here and contribute to the society.

mdc, Broken Arrow (10/26/2007 9:28:42 AM)

I'm not against immigration reform... yes the process is flawed... but this crap about "fat americans" that's as racist and stereotypical as anything that has been said about mexicans? So, you're not any better than the people you condemn...

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My grandfather was a plumber, my uncle worked construction, my other uncle an electrician. They were all forced to work in other states becuase of illegal immigrant workers (cheap exploited labor). Expoiting illegal immigrants to improve your bottom line as a business is unconstitutional... it's immoral and unethical. But, your theory supports it.

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These people work hard for less money because they have NO choice. Not because they want to. Because if they don't, they can't eat. Companies pay them crappy wages, because they know they have no choice... that's unethical.

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i really don't have much sympathy for split families... they made that decision on their own... they knew what they were doing before they did it... and many do it to try and stay in the country... so NO... I don't feel sorry for them. The LAW is the LAW. There is a process to overcome that... yes it is expensive... yes it takes a long time... yes the system may be flawed. But, that doesn't give anyone the right to break the LAW and go around the system.

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Ever heard the phrase work smarter not harder? Don't fault me for not having a LABOR job... I put my time in... got my education... and paid for it. In fact, I've employeed thousands of individuals around the globe... Doesn't mean I'm lazy... just smart.

BoomerSooner, Tulsa (10/26/2007 9:54:03 AM)

Tania:

Go back and read your Bible, especially Matthew 22:21 and 1 Peter 2:13ff. OBEY THE LAW OF THE LAND. Very simple. This situation has NOTHING to do with love for neighbors. Loving your neighbor does not involve turning a blind eye to the law.

I will gladly pay $8 for tomatoes if that will fix this mess.

Jerry, Shawnee (10/26/2007 11:08:14 AM)

Yeah, we selectively take the Bible's admonitions to heart, and we selectively mandate obedience to the laws of the land. Get real. This bill and the public response to it is blatantly racist.

me, (10/26/2007 11:20:55 AM)

Stupid question

What is more important to obey God's law or man's law?

Which one comes first?

max, (10/26/2007 11:24:35 AM)

Sorry, we do not live under a theocracy.

me, (10/26/2007 11:30:39 AM)

theocracy

a form of government in which God or a deity is recognized as the supreme civil ruler, the God's or deity's laws being interpreted by the ecclesiastical authorities.

yes max we dont live under theocracy, but several of us believe that God is our supreme ruler. I know I didnt come from a monkey, even though some act like apes.

Dover, (10/26/2007 12:01:29 PM)

You guys quit whinning and sniveling. It is and has been the law. If you bleeders want to live in a third world country pleeezzze jump the border to mexico. I for one do not want to see this great country fall for a few illegals. Or bleeders. You can cry all day long but November 1 will be a glorious day in the history books. States will follow our lead in eliminating this infestation of illegals!

amanda r. taylor, porum (10/26/2007 12:07:23 PM)

Let's see if Governor Henery or the Federal Judge brings up charges agianst the National Coalition of Latino Clergy and it’s lawyers who willfully support their illegal aliens/immigrants clients in the community for violate:

INA: ACT 262 - REGISTRATION OF ALIENS IN THE UNITED STATES

Sec. 262. [8 U.S.C. 1302]

“(a) It shall be the duty of every alien now or hereafter in the United States, who (1) is fourteen years of age or older, (2) has not been registered and fingerprinted under section 221(b) of this Act or section 30 or 31 of the Alien Registration Act, 1940, and (3) remains in the United States for thirty days or longer, to apply for registration and to be fingerprinted before the expiration of such thirty days. …” -

- We have a member of the court "...Plaintiffs' attorney Rohit Sharma ..." who doesn't state if his clients are legal or illegal residents in the United States. - If they are illegal, he is willfully violating federal law and his oath (as a lawyer) by failure to report the criminal actions of his unidentified clients in the United States. -

- he has declined to report if his clients have a valid driver's license in the event they are operating a vehicle - nor does he state if they have a valid Social Security number issued to them for payroll and federal and state tax payments and returns -

- if the landlords are already renting under section 8 assistance, they are required to follow The Housing and Community Development Act of 1987 (42 U.S.C. 3543)( which requires applicants and residents to submit the social security numbers of all household members at least six (6) years old.)-

-in conclusion, you bleeding hearts and the National Coalition of Latino Clergy are not only racist and bigots, but criminals by supporting and refusing to report the criminal acts of illegal aliens/immigrates (Especially Mexicans who are also violating the Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo Between the United States of America and Mexico of November 12, 1884) under the disguise of civil rights -

- if the country you are from can't provide you a living or you don't like how the government is operating, IT IS YOUR RESPONSIBILITY TO FIGHT AND MAKE THE CHANGES TO IMPROVE YOUR LIVING CONDITIONS IN YOUR OWN COUNTRY not our responsibility to let you lie, rob, steal, cheat, murder, and even draw us into your illegal actions under the disguise of humanitarian needs.

BoomerSooner, Tulsa (10/26/2007 12:17:31 PM)

Amanda R. Taylor FOR PRESIDENT!

MAC, San Diego (10/26/2007 12:42:01 PM)

Dang, glad Amanda is on our team WOOOHOOO

max, (10/26/2007 12:53:01 PM)

A question, why in the world are landlords renting their property to anyone in the first place without valid identification? Seems dangerous from several angles to me. I was a renter through the years of several apartments and houses and not only was I asked for my identification, including SS#, but they also always ran a credit/background check. Do landlords not practice that anymore?

mdc, Broken Arrow (10/26/2007 12:55:15 PM)

Jerry... how is HB 1804 racist? Does it mention any specific race or origin of individuals in the writings? Have you read it? Or are you just repeating what you've heard? Hopefully, you're intelligent enough to form your own opinion.

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Answer is... it doesn't say anything about a particular race... if hispanics, latinos, or mexicans want to take offense to a LAW being enforced, then maybe that's because they are fully aware that they are BREAKING that LAW. So, in essence, they're just taking it personally... kinda like how pot smokers are against the LAW that make smoking pot illegal.

mdc, Broken Arrow (10/26/2007 3:18:21 PM)

For those of you who are opponents of HB 1804 and haven't read it... let me give you the cliff notes...

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Section 1 – establishes the title of the bill

Section 2 – states that failure to enforce immigration laws harms safety and welfare of legal citizens.

Section 3 – makes it a crime to move, transport, or attempt to transport any KNOWN illegal aliens. This part replicates a FEDERAL LAW already in place.

Section 4 – states that an individual must show valid proof of legal residency prior to applying for a State driver’s license or ID.

Section 5 – allows law enforcement to verify immigration status or citizenship of any person arrested.

Section 6 – Defines terminology used in section 7

Section 7 – requires public employers to register and use a federal employment eligibility system to make sure applicant is legal to work. And employers can not enter into a contract with a contractor or subcontractor that does not use the same system. Also makes it illegal for an employer to fire a LEGAL employee while maintaining an ILLEGAL employee.

Section 8 – anyone applying for state or local public benefits must prove legal status.

Section 9 – Any contractor that does not have a valid SSN will be charged income taxes at the highest rate allowed.

Section 10 – Calls for state and local law enforcement to work together on immigration enforcement.

Section 11 – students can’t get post secondary educational benefits or resident tuition unless they can prove that they are here legally.

Section 12 – the department of public safety must establish a Fraudulent Documents Identification Unit…

Section 13 – says that students can not enroll in a post secondary educational institution unless they are here legally or can show that they have applied to be here legally.

Section 14 – sets effective date as November 1st

mdc, Broken Arrow (10/26/2007 3:20:26 PM)

Please see above and inform all of us as to which specific section is unconstitutional??? The parts of the Bill that Orta is arguing are only replicating federal laws that are already in place... just not being enforced due to a shortage of federal immigration workers. This law allows state and local authorities to assist the federal government with immigration.

Jimmy, Hemet (10/26/2007 3:20:31 PM)

Let us look at some interesting ways that Mexico deals with its immigrants, both legal and not:

1. Equal employment rights are denied to immigrants, even legal ones.

2. Foreigners to say nothing of illegal immigrants are denied fundamental property rights.

3. Mexico grants its citizens the right to arrest illegal aliens and hand them over to police for prosecution.

4. And the Mexican constitution states that foreigners, not just illegal immigrants, may be expelled for any reason and without due process. Remind me again, which country has the warped xenophobic mentality?

Van, (10/26/2007 3:21:39 PM)

WAKE UP AMERICA!! This country is being INVADED!

Bobby, Long Beach, California(occupied) (10/26/2007 3:46:02 PM)

Americans are losing their nation. They are losing their representative government to the corporations that own politcians like Hillary Clinton and Rudy Giulianni,etc. The fact is Americans are facing a challenge to their language, culture, customs, and rights. There's no need to elaborate, only the blind and deaf among us, cannot see or hear what is happening. Is there a solution? Sure there is. There is always a solution. Since representative government seems gone, Americans can follow the strategy of Gandhi. Yes, Gandhi. When England invaded and had a strangle hold on India, how was it finally solved. NON-COOPERATION. That's it. You don't cooperate with anything that empowers the invaders or their handlers. You boycott items, you reject a foreign language, you don't listen, in short,-- you become like the living dead where illegal aliens and their enablers are concerned. That is how Gandhi got rid of foreign influence AND the TRAITORS in his own nation. TOTAL NON-COOPERATION.

Sunflower, (10/26/2007 3:46:33 PM)

The best way for us to "love our neighbor" in this case is to teach them to fish in their HOME countries. We cannot take in the world -- we are going to go under. WAKE UP AMERICA and fight this invasion -- we owe it to the people that have died for this country and to our children.

Bren, (10/26/2007 4:47:55 PM)

I hope that the Tulsa police have been trained and certified in the Homeland Security/ICE 287(g) Program-----so that they will be LEGALLY able to arrest and deport illegals no matter what ends up being the result of this hearing!!!