Tulsa World: Kirk of the Hills votes to buy back property

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Kirk of the Hills votes to buy back property
Congregants agree to pay $1.75 million to reclaim the property lost in a court battle.

By BILL SHERMAN World Religion Writer
Published: 12/1/2008 2:23 AM
Last Modified: 12/1/2008 8:26 AM

The congregation of Kirk of the Hills Presbyterian voted Sunday night, for the second time, to buy back their property from the denomination they left two years ago.

The vote was 578 to 361 to accept an agreement with Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) and its Eastern Oklahoma Presbytery to buy the property at 4102 E. 61st St. for $1.75 million, and to end all litigation.

The decision should end a two-year court battle that began when the church left the denomination over concerns about its liberal drift, and asked Tulsa County District Court to affirm that the church owns the property.

Instead, District Judge Jefferson Sellers ruled in September that the property belonged to the denomination, not the church.

Since then, negotiations have been held to come to an agreement that would allow the church to purchase the property, and to remain in it. In October, the congregation voted narrowly to accept an agreement to buy the property, but that deal fell through when the denomination had concerns about it.

Kirk of the Hills attorney John O'Connor said the new agreement is expected to be approved Tuesday by the Eastern Oklahoma Presbytery, and that will pave the way for a Dec. 16 closing on the property.

Greg Coulter, general presbyter of the Eastern Oklahoma Presbytery, said he did not anticipate any problems with the presbytery accepting the agreement.

"I'm pleased about the vote," he said. "I'm praying for them, that healing may begin, and that the Kirk congregation

will continue to flourish in ministry and service to the community."

Church member Jim Solomon said after the vote, "I think it's great. The church has great programs, and this will allow us to maintain the continuity of those programs."

Kirk co-pastor Tom Gray said the vote means the church will be unchanged, except for the additional $1.75 million in debt, a loan the congregation can bear.

"We're pleased to be able to move ahead," he said. "Our members didn't want to leave behind their history here."

Co-pastor Wayne Hardy said, "We've been at this a long time. It's been full of highs and lows. People are just tired. They want this to be in the past."

Before the vote, two members of the Session, the ruling board of the church, gave their arguments, one for and one against accepting the offer.

Paul Goodman said he wanted to reject the offer, and continue the appeal, for justice's sake.

"What the PC-USA is doing is just not right, and we feel someone has to stand up and say enough is enough," he said.

Jim Holloman said a recent appraisal set the market value of the building at $7.8 million, and it would be a sound business decision for the church to buy it for $1.75 million. He said it was time to focus on mission and ministry, and not anger.

Kirk of the Hills is now affiliated with the Evangelical Presbyterian Church, a small, conservative denomination.

About the case

The Kirk of the Hills case has national implications.

The church is the largest of dozens of churches nationwide in various stages of leaving the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.).

They are part of a growing struggle in several denominations between a traditional and a modernist interpretation of scripture.

Bill Sherman 581-8398
bill.sherman@tulsaworld.com By BILL SHERMAN World Religion Writer

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	Report Comment droopy, wagoner (12/1/2008 8:27:53 AM) Way to go, Kirk of the Hills. I am not a member of your demonination, but sure admire your sticking to the bible.
	Report Comment Rhymeister, Tulsa (12/1/2008 8:32:53 AM) Hear, hear, I second what "droopy" said. Your church will be richly blessed because of this, I truly believe!
	Report Comment rocket, (12/1/2008 8:44:32 AM) I would disagree with Mr. Goodman's comment that what the PCUSA is doing is not right. What the PCUSA is doing is sticking by the legal contractual terms that govern its relationship with all its congregations from the moment a local congregation is formed. It is well known that under this legal arrangement, the PCUSA, not the congregation, actually owns the properties. That's what the court confirmed. Kirk of the Hills is entitled to leave the denomination, but it's not entitled to take the property with it for free.
	Report Comment Skeptic, Tulsa (12/1/2008 11:48:06 AM) This proves once again that religion is, after all, just big business. It's too bad the price wasn't set at market value so that the attorney's could have made even more money.
	Report Comment pgcfriend, (12/1/2008 1:04:56 PM) Thank God they will soon be free of the heretics. I agree they knew the terms when they joined the denomination. At least they are able to support the cost. I find it interesting that any group would agree to those terms with property even though no denomination funds were used to build the building. For that reason in principle I do not plan on being a part of another denomination. I have not been for many years. It is sad that property can be held hostage when leadership go off the path of the Bible. Funding projects is not enough reason for these groups.
	Report Comment avr, (12/1/2008 1:59:11 PM) Well once again folks commenting on something they know absolutely nothing about. When the Kirk joined the denomination back in the 60's, the denomination did NOT have this stupid property/trust agreement in the B.O.O. They denomination "decided" well after the fact, that church property is theirs, even though they have never given the respective churches one red cent for said properties. Further in 1979 the US supreme court ruled that church property law should be decided by neutral principals and or state law. Further, any trust document, unless specifically stating otherwise is by definition revocable. Guess what, we revoked it back in 2006 too. What the court has basically done, by practically admitting it to our attorneys was deny us our day in court and not throughly read the Kirk's legal filings. While I do not agree with the members that voted to purchase the property, AGAIN, I can live with it. However, we still do not have any guarantee that the SYNOD will not come back and make a mess of this again. Not that any of you PCUSA types will admit it these are the facts. JSJ while I agree there are good folks in the pcusa, they sure as heck are not located in the denomination headquarters or at the EOP. The stuff the Kirk leadership has had to deal with would make your head spin that we cannot tell the public.
	Report Comment OKLA, (12/1/2008 4:48:10 PM) Hey, Rocket. Who do you suppose paid for that property? It sure wasn't the presbytery. . . Who do you suppose maintains the property and buildings. Again, it's the congregation and not the presbytery. If that's their contract, what's the consideration for the property provided by the Presbytery? Way to go, Kirk!
	Report Comment Ignatz, Broken Bow (12/1/2008 6:20:18 PM) Hopefully, this will be the last story about this bunch of southeast Tulsa Republicans for a while.
	Report Comment Skeptic, Tulsa (12/1/2008 6:48:29 PM) ilive2worship- "God bless this congregation with making a stand for Godly principles!". This whole mess developed because a group within the church did not like the position that the mother ship took on a matter of civil rights. And because that group thought their position was "more godly", then they should get all the shiney stuff including the church and property. It seems to me that if your group was so upset with the Presbyterian hierarchy that you would vote to dissolve your relationship, then you should get what you asked for ... a divorce with no alimony. Why should the PC deed your group property based on your self described opinion that your view is the more "godly"? Do you really think that this is the first time the church has had a renegade group try to take the church's property under the guise that they had a more godly calling? I think not. That's why this is just another example of how religion is just business. You broke with the church and sued to get their property that your congregation paid for already. Instead of walking away and setting up church in an empty Walmart somewhere, you fought to hang onto someone else's property because you think you are more godly than they. Even though the court ruled against you, god (through your attorneys) has "lead" your group of renegades to make a deal to purchase the property. It's a win win for both sides. The PC is $2 mill richer and has unloaded a property and your group of renegades has just purchased a great piece of property at 1/4 its appraised value that could easily be resold for a quick profit. I sell real estate. That's just business. God has nothing to do with it.
	Report Comment Daniel Day Simpson, Edmond (12/1/2008 8:20:46 PM) Meanwhile somewhere in the Ford Galaxy Jerk: Bridge to engineering (13) Snott: Snot here captain! Jerk: What's not there snotty? (12) Snotty: I said: SNOT HERE! (11) Jerk: Snotty, give me full power.(10) Get us outta here (9) fast! Snotty: (8)Ack! I cannot do it! (7) The toilets are backed up into the warp drive. (5) It'll take time (4) to make the repairs! (3) Jerk: TIME? (2) Mr. Schlock? Schlock: One... Wipeout! (CRASH) Readings are off the scale captain, I have not encountered this phenominom before! Jerk: Damage Report: Lnt. Maneur? Maneur: Sir, we took a schlacking out ere!
	Report Comment retired x2, Canadian (12/1/2008 8:47:45 PM) Big churches have big problems esp. with $$$$$.
	Report Comment KJNOKIE, TULSA (12/1/2008 9:05:22 PM) They could have saved a lot of time, stress and legal fees, if at the beginning, both sides had gotten together in prayer, and gone by God's decision.
	Report Comment HappyHeart, Tulsa (12/1/2008 9:28:53 PM) I pray for healing for Greg Coulter ...
	Report Comment maggie, Tulsa (12/3/2008 8:16:50 AM) Congrats to KOTH on their land grab. Now that they have opposed the civil rights of one group in the name of Biblical principles, I wonder when they are going to start following the other Biblical principles--to the letter of the Bible-- No pork, no divorces, marry your brother's widow, etc. Oh, wait, KOTH wants to pick and choose--sorry, I got confused.
	Report Comment zzx375, BA (12/8/2008 1:10:16 PM) kjnokie, What would have been prayed and how would God's decision been communicated and understood?

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