lil sparrow, Midwest Flyway (1/15/2009 7:09:24 AM)

Song of the Day: "Whiter Shade of Pale," Procol Harem

Old Titan, (1/15/2009 9:33:11 AM)

More evidence of the dramatic turnaround going on right now at ORU. It's plain to see that the right people are making the decisions now and that the university's potential is being fully realized. A great hire at a time when nothing less would suffice. Kudos to the selection committee.

Classics, (1/15/2009 9:34:33 AM)

Rutland sounds like a very promising prospect for the future of ORU! Great job to Green, the Selection Committee, and all involved.

johnboy51, Tulsa (1/15/2009 9:53:46 AM)

What an exciting development for ORU. I'm sure Dr. Rutland will be a real asset to the University and with Mart Green will keep ORU on the right track. It's great to know Dr. Rutland will have Oral Roberts' blessing as he continues the work Oral started 40 years ago.

Graychin, Eucha (1/15/2009 10:40:33 AM)

He has radio experience. Will he have a TV show when he gets to Tulsa?

I was hoping that ORU would find a president with serious academic credentials, but it seems that instead they gave priority to filling the roles of Oral and Richard.

I have met very few preachers who had even a clue about financial responsibility. The only exception I can think of was a lawyer before he became a preacher.

MMORU, (1/15/2009 11:51:04 AM)

The headline says "Pastor", but this guy is more than a pastor. The headline does not fully describe the candidate. He is a highly sought after speaker, university president of 10 years, and terrific fundraiser. He has brought a church and university out of major financial crisis. He brought enrollment from about 1,000 at SEU in 1999 to over 3,000 today. The guy is a proven winner, and could do a great job for ORU. I also think he must be well rounded if he has a BS in sports management from the University of Maryland. I think we found our guy!

ORUisHome, tulsa (1/15/2009 11:57:01 AM)

He also has a Phd from the California School of Theology

Graychin, Eucha (1/15/2009 1:31:33 PM)

Is theology a serious academic discipline when it does not encourage free inquiry?

I'm not saying that theology isn't worth studying. I'm saying that theology isn't an academic discipline in the same sense as science, history or literature.

MMORU is saying the same thing that I did. This is someone to fill Oral's shoes - something Richard never managed to do. But he doesn't sound like a credible university president.

zzx375, BA (1/15/2009 1:34:08 PM)

"I'm saying that theology isn't an academic discipline in the same sense as science, history or literature.
In exactly what way?

52favoriteteacher, WASHBURN, MO (1/15/2009 1:35:29 PM)

Rutland may be THE MAN for ORU

really not a big fan of this college

I do believe the practical teaching of the Bible is WWJD

After all we can choose to continue to destroy or we can..

start to build up/solve/renew

It is 2009

Let's all work together and make a better world for our kids/grandkids

I do not care what you sin WAS...

Greatnorthern, (1/15/2009 3:52:50 PM)

This guy's been the president of a university for 10 years, is experienced in good fundraising, & has the academic credentials appropriate for a university president. I posted a long time ago, that if a university or college president ANYWHERE is not good at fundraising, he/she doesn't last long. That's an important part of the job, no matter what educational institution.

MMORU, (1/15/2009 5:32:16 PM)

From Rutland in a newspaper in Flordia....

"At its peak, it had a law school, a medical school and a hospital. He envisioned a school that was bigger than he was. Nobody gave him a chance of doing it. I want to honor the past and yet move forward," he said.

Rutland said a high priority at Oral Roberts would be raising its enrollment, which currently stands at 3,067, according to the school's Web site, to as much as 6,500.

"It is not my dream to ever go anywhere and restore a school to faded glory. It's my dream to move an institution into an area where it's never been before," he said.

Graychin, Eucha (1/15/2009 6:13:15 PM)

Not Again:

For your benefit and for the benefit of zzx375, let me repeat: theology is not a real academic discipline to the extent that free inquiry is discouraged or forbidden. Studying the Bible as history or literature, encouraging free inquiry, is an academic discipline. Studying the Bible as God's Revealed Truth is not an academic exercise, but an exercise in faith. Big difference.

Your objection to my expression of my own opinion tells me a lot about where you are coming from.

remarkable, (1/15/2009 6:52:45 PM)

I just believe that ORU needs to continue to fast and pray and that God will lead them to the man or woman to drive ORU to it's fullest potential. I believe the person should have what it takes and also have a sound academic solid background in addition to having the heart of God- which all things are possible. The board has not yet proven itself without having the new president here- and that to me raises a concern due to all their academic knowledge- they have yet to resolve the inner issues. Laying off people is not the way to go- cutting programs is. If you are not able to sustain a program- cut it off and bring it back when it is time. You can not increase recruit in students if your faculty, staff are doing a one paper hanger juggle. It is not fair to them and it is not fair to the students. Go back to basics if necessary but don't cut off the fruit that has been there through it all.

zzx375, BA (1/15/2009 9:40:45 PM)

Graychin,

"For your benefit and for the benefit of zzx375, let me repeat: theology is not a real academic discipline to the extent that free inquiry is discouraged or forbidden."

Repeating is fine, but specific examples to support this claim go a long way.

Do you mean that the study of theology at ORU does not allow free inquiry or at all universities offering a theology?

BTW, I have no idea what you are mean by the term "free inquiry". Not trying to be smart-aleck, just don't know what you mean. Does this mean that a student can't follow where the trail leads?

History, theology, and literature have common ground at least in one important technique employed in their respective study. That technique, textual criticism, is employed in theology, history, and literature and key to the study of all.

And where theology is concerned differing religious world views can be compared and contrasted, especially when laid side by side. As a matter of fact, simply laying out the major truth claims of each one clearly dispells a common misconception that all "religions are basically the same".

A reasonable question to ask is why does theology cause so much debate if it has no substance or foundation? If this is truly a Thomas Jefferson proposition (self evident) why so much debate?

And speaking of Thomas Jefferson, why would he write that "...all men are endowed by their Creator..."?

cfowler, Colorado Springs (1/15/2009 11:02:34 PM)

Dr. Mark Rutland is a man with a high level of integrity. His excellent reputation along with the outstanding job he has done in Lakeland is without dispute. Both ORU and the city of Tulsa will be very fortunate and should feel honored if he should choose to accept this position. He is more than qualified.

Graychin, Eucha (1/15/2009 11:47:36 PM)

zzx375, the kind of study that you described in your comment does sound like real scholarship to me. But if a student draws conclusions from that study that conflict with orthodoxy, would his work be accepted based on the quality of his scholarship or on his ultimate adherence to orthodoxy?

By free inquiry, I mean the permission and encouragement to question all assumptions, test all hypotheses, and propose new interpretations of old texts and historical events. In the context of theology, that would include the right to question such dogmas as the divinity of Christ, the virgin birth, the Trinity, and of course the treatment of the Bible as the literal words of God rather than as allegory written by humans. When questioned and tested, those orthodox positions might stand firm and even be strengthened. They might also be found wanting. If orthodoxy is found wanting, is it permissible to abandon it?

Does this kind of free inquiry (as I explained above) occur in theology classes at ORU and at Southeastern University? Did it occur in the theology programs in which Dr. Rutland studied? If so, then my comments are out of bounds and I apologize. If not, I will hold to my position that this sort of theology is not a real academic program.

Specific examples? Why was Carlton Pearson asked to resign from the now-defunct ORU board of regents? Was it because he had adopted the doctrine of universalism? Had he become a heretic? Free inquiry dismisses the concept of heresy.

52favoriteteacher, WASHBURN, MO (1/16/2009 7:01:54 AM)

For your benefit and for the benefit of zzx375, let me repeat: theology is not a real academic discipline to the extent that free inquiry is discouraged or forbidden. Studying the Bible as history or literature, encouraging free inquiry, is an academic discipline. Studying the Bible as God's Revealed Truth is not an academic exercise, but an exercise in faith. Big difference.

Graychin--very well stated

FREEDOM ROCKS

Greatnorthern, (1/16/2009 11:18:29 AM)

Graychin, do you know & understand Hebrew & Greek fluently?

zzx375, BA (1/16/2009 2:23:40 PM)

At best I can attempt some answers to the questions but it won’t form a neat package.

“But if a student draws conclusions from that study that conflict with orthodoxy, would his work be accepted based on the quality of his scholarship or on his ultimate adherence to orthodoxy? “ One can only hope. Of course this pre-supposes the student is intellectually honest and doesn’t have a conclusion to the thesis question in mind prior to the beginning of his or her endeavor.

“If orthodoxy is found wanting, is it permissible to abandon it? “ Taken at face value, in concert with what preceded this question certainly. But in this sort of endeavor, doesn’t the progression from A to B to C to D to the end at E need to be clear? Certainly the basis for new interpretation of ancient texts would be clearly delineated in a student’s thesis or dissertation.

You ask specific questions about what happens at ORU and Southeastern but I have no knowledge of the inner workings of those institutions. Perhaps you have specific knowledge of an instance where a student drew conclusions that caused them to be sanctioned by faculty at one or both of these institutions and if so, this action seems to support your position. But at best one could say there is no free inquiry at ORU and Southeastern and based upon the stated criteria, the study of theology at these two institutions is suspect.

And I have no idea regarding Carlton Pearson’s removal from the Board of Trustees but I can comment on his universal position. As I understand this position, Jesus Chris’st death was atonement for everyone, so that there is no need for personal acceptance of Jesus as Savior and Lord. So in essence, entrance into heaven is “free of charge”.

If we presume this position to be true and extended it to its logical conclusion, then at the Lamb’s banquet (as described in Revelation), Pearson might find himself seated next to Adolf Hitler, Josef Stalin, Pol Pot, Chan Kai Shek, Vladimir Lenin, or Mao Zedong on one side and Mother Teresa on the other side.

I will resubmit two questions:

If this is truly a Thomas Jefferson proposition (self evident) why so much debate?

And speaking of Thomas Jefferson, why would he write "...all men are endowed by their Creator..."?

zzx375, BA (1/18/2009 8:32:24 AM)

Well Greychin, looks like you have moved on.