Tony G, Tulsa (3/14/2009 6:50:29 AM)

Catholics put astronomers to death,for telling them the earth wasn't the center of the universe!
I wish they could use the stem cells from abortions.
Turn a bad thing, into a good thing.

mamamany, OKC (3/14/2009 7:21:07 AM)

my husband and I did IVF. We had 4 embryos stored but not sure what to do w/ them. We knew 100% we did not want them "donated" to science. Our belief is that because they are human embryos, made from us we cherished them.
For 2 yrs we froze our embryos.
We found Focus on the Family's site NIGHTLIGHT, where they adopt frozen embryos to infertile couples.
Our 4 embryos were indeed adopted by a couple and a baby boy was born into their family.
over 200 babies were and are born to babies using this technology.
With that said..
Scientists have NEVER used human embryos.
My belief is that someone said that they CAN use human embryos and the entire world rejoiced. THERE ARE OTHER EMBRYOS to use....
what about stem cells from animals ? What about cord blood?

Eagle 4, Tulsa (3/14/2009 8:18:17 AM)

Obama alluded to religion in announcing the changes, saying, "As a person of faith, I believe we are called to care for each other and work to ease human suffering. I believe we have been given the capacity and will to pursue this research and the humanity and conscience to do so responsibly."

After "capacity and will" could easily be added "by God." To do so responsibly is Man's end of the bargain.

billy8, Sand Springs (3/14/2009 11:02:25 AM)

if you don't like this research don't sign up for its application to extend your life and ease your suffering. let the rest of us enjoy the fruits of scientific research that so far has estended life more in the last century than in all previous centuries. also, if you don't like abortion, don't get one, and if you're against same sex marriage don't marry one, but don't try to pass legislation banning these things because of your superstious beliefs.

Proud Muslim, Tulsa: Coolest place in the world (almost) (3/14/2009 12:43:08 PM)

"Muslims disagree over — among other things — whether an embryo in the early stage of development has a soul."

Lol, when do we ever agree on anything?

However, I do recall that there are alternative sources of stem cells other than embryos.

Pizzagirl, Tulsa (3/14/2009 1:08:43 PM)

I say if an embryo is going to go to the incinorator, why not use it for good instead? What better way to use an unwanted batch of cells than to incorporate it into someone who could use it?

reckless abandon, Tulsa (3/14/2009 3:58:33 PM)

I am a Catholic, but the Church is talking out of both sides of it's mouth. The Church has a firm anti IVF stand. But it them sets itself up as an advocate for the protection of the lives it does not believe should have been created. And 20 years from now will Catholics be told not to avail themselves of cures for juvenile onset diabetes, cancer or Parkinson because they were e result ofembryonic stem cell research. I have cousins with these diseases and nieces and nephews as a result of IVF--real people loved by us and God, all with the potential of doing His wwork in this world.

mamamany, OKC (3/14/2009 4:55:48 PM)

Billy8~ it's not "superstitious" beliefs...that's silly. It's factual beliefs.
1st of all stem cells from embryos have never been used for anything so no one even knows if it will work. The thing is is that there are other ways proven to work like corn blood. But because so much controversy has been placed upon embryonic cells that is what people focus on...controversy.
If they tell us not to use cord blood people will flock to that.
There are other ways to cure diseases...

God Bless our Troops, Small town (3/14/2009 5:14:32 PM)

I guess this means that the churches will start paying taxes soon? Churches have no business in politics...

As far as when life begins, no one knows. Everyone has beliefs, but I am with pizzagirl. As much as all of you staunch conservatives hate it, abortion will never be abolished in our life time. Now we can either dispose of what you call a "human life" as medical waste, or you can try to turn a negative into a positive and use the "human life" to help another, living, breathing, human life. Maybe it will be your child your grandchild that that "human life" will save.

billy8, Sand Springs (3/15/2009 9:38:14 AM)

I meant the superstious religious beliefs the fuel the debate of stem cell research, abortion and same sex marriage. all outdated superstition and mythology

Ginifer, Muskogee (3/15/2009 9:56:20 AM)

As a person who recently has seen a very dear friend fight through Lukemia and have seen and known many people who have benefited from stem cell research I am not opposed to stem cell research.

I have a moral problem with "embryonic stem cell" this is the ridiculous thing.

Embryonic stem cell is nothing more than another reason for the "government" to use my money to promote abortions as this is where the embryonic stem cells come from.

This bothers me on 2 levels. First Abortion is legal in this country. If you want to have an abortion you can-legally. But when you ask me to pay for something that is morally repugnant and what I feel is nothing short of a government mandate to murder for mostly inconvenience, I recoil from the horror of sensless murder.

The whole argument that because I am suffering and if you don't want to stop suffering then you don't have to "sign" up for it is actually not a valid argument. You are not asking me to freely "sign up" or not. You are asking me to pay for the legal murder of the most innocent. When I could sign up for the same treatments without a single abortion being committed.

Is this to save another life? Yes it is, but is there another way to do the same type of research and save lives without the condoning of killing babies. YES. That is the fact that the people who's agenda is really abortion leave out. Stem cell research has never stopped in this country. Only embryonic stem cell research. They are two very different sources that accomplish the same good! Why then must we pay for killing babies to accompish it when there are alternatives?

dukeera, Jenks (3/15/2009 1:13:03 PM)

As for 'embryonic' versus 'regular' stem cells, I think the scientists on the cutting edge of this technology are the best source for what each source is capable of doing, or not doing.

Most of us posting here are simply parroting what our chosen media sources are telling us, which is ironically what we want to hear.

Any research experts care to post here?

drh, Broken Arrow (3/16/2009 3:20:01 PM)

Embryonic stem cell research is not murder, and I believe saying so is a cheap way to make other views seem heinous, nor is it another form of abortion. It is not because embryos can be frozen and thawed and still function normally, human beings who are frozen, die. These embryos are not to the point they can be considered human.

Mamamany, you say you didn't want your extra embryos to be donated to science, and they were not. That is fine, that is your choice, but what about those families that would choose to give their extra embryos for study? You get to decide what you will do with yours, but they do not?

Basil, Tulsa (3/17/2009 1:00:09 PM)

There is no genetic difference between a growing embryo and an eight-day old baby. All that separates them is time spent developing in utero. If we interupt that natural development, which would otherwise occur, we are, in fact, ending it's life. Does this growing person have any rights? Isn't this a social justice issue?

Is it fair to end a life, because we value it less than other more developed life, which may benefit from it's destruction? Is this very different than rounding up people we deem unproductive or a burden to harvest their organs to save the life of other more productive citizens?

[User Deleted], Tulsa (3/17/2009 1:09:47 PM)

I'm with you on this thread Basil. I see no difference either. A 3 month old baby is just as important to the human race than a 60 year old man. All are equal in the eyes of God.

One has the potential "to become" the other has the wisdom to make "the become" even greater.

Tulsaboyw, tulsa (3/18/2009 6:11:23 AM)

conception - once that happens, its a matter of time or technology for it to grow into baby.

Its a human being at that conception.

Im 100% gop/athiest, and to me its ludicrous to consider otherwise.

But also, if the embroyo is already non-viable or similar... why not use them.
However, no matter. DOing any of this is pretty much what Hitler was all about on genetics.

We are now legitiamtely doing research that in the 1940's was considered only by Hitler.

I cant support research that takes a life, once concieeved (exception: Rape,incest,motherslife,etc).

But the even the researchers now say that per the past ban, they have been able to since then get research to a point where embryonic research is not as needed as thought before.

Tulsaboyw, tulsa (3/18/2009 6:12:42 AM)

Ovrall Im not for this, but in the case of already unviable embroyos, Im not sure.
Preference is no, anyway.

mamamany, OKC (3/18/2009 6:25:28 PM)

we actually saw our very own embryos splitting( on video). We knew which ones they were implanting and which ones turned into ur twins. We saw our frozen embryos turn into a beautiful little boy..
stem cells research is murder

JKRichard, Tulsa (3/21/2009 5:03:55 AM)

mamamany, congratulations on your successful IVF.

I believe a woman has a right to choose what to do with her body and her reproductive organs. Government should not regulate what a woman does with her organs or cells.
The question of stem cell research and its 'controversy' centers around religious beliefs and as to when a person believes 'life' in conceived, or rather, when the "soul" is joined with the body. If you can look at a blastocyst and honestly tell me that with that bundle of undifferentiated cells (that has no circulatory, nervous, lymphatic...no organ structures whatsoever) and tell me there is a soul there...well, those are your beliefs, good on ya. I'm standing by for that evidence of 'soul.' If a woman wants to donate her reproductive cells to science and potentially be involved in saving millions of lives, you call her a murderer, I would call her a saint.

There is a misconception here that all embryonic stem cells come from aborted fetuses. So not the case. By the time most abortions are being performed/occur after the blastocyst has differentiated and organ tissue is formed. Scientists are capable of using embryos that were being stored for IVF that are beyond their usable 'shelf-life,' they have identified stem cells in amniotic fluid, they are capable of harvesting stem cells from the birth cord, they can remove a single blastomere from a blatocyst... there are other options here outside of abortion, however, in order to save lives you have to look hard at your definition of when the soul and the body join.

Now, regarding aborted fetuses, Google: aborted fetus stem cell. What you will find are links to many cases where stem cells harvested from aborted fetuses (again, I don't presume to know the context of the abortion...was it to save the mother's life? A victim of violent crime? Sad by-product of birth control? *shrug*). You will also find a few stories where stem cell treatment caused complications. It's a young science, but the breakthrough are happening daily, rapidly. Give it time.

mamamany, you'll find that there are many religious individuals, fundamentalist churches (especially the Catholics), and conservative groups that would call your act of IVF immoral and interfering with god's will. Are they correct and perhaps you wrong?