oddsare, (6/10/2009 6:44:44 AM)

I can't wait until some other group gains a sizable majority and starts erecting the pillars of the Koran on the lawns of some of the government buildings. Those pillars are just simple rules to live by too...to paraphrase Barnes... Keep pushing your agenda...when you have to walk past a bronze Buddha on your way into a courthouse, you might re-think your stance to insert religion into government.

52favoriteteacher, Washburn--used to be Broken Arrow (6/10/2009 7:54:25 AM)

Barnes and his supporters have already raised more than $3,500 for the 7-foot-by-3-foot granite monument — more than enough money to build it — but for now he and supporters will hold onto the money to see if Haskell County prevails in an appeal.

Good idea--saves another ruling/trial

right to speak, right to believe, right to have your Bible on your desk at work, right to...

Last week our president that we the people have elected has ruled active duty people can no longer speak out as a leader at faith based events.

How long before he...

DonInTulsa, (6/10/2009 8:13:35 AM)

Oddsare has a good point. I personally have no issue with the ten commandments being displayed on government property, but if government is no respecter of religion, other faiths should have the right to display a monument to their religion.

NN, (6/10/2009 9:16:01 AM)

And I imagine they could if they had the local public support to do so, DonInTulsa.

OkeyDokey, Anytown USA (6/10/2009 9:17:35 AM)

I FEEL SORRY FOR BARNES AND HIS SUPPORTERS. MAYBE IF HE PUT IT AT HIS HOUSE AND GAVE DIRECTIONS TO IT, HOW MANY WOULD GET TICKED OVER THAT ??

18thandBoston, (6/10/2009 9:35:25 AM)

"'They're just simple rules to live by' — rules that transcend all cultures and religions, he said."

1: Thou shalt have no other gods before me
2: Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord in vain
3: Remember the Sabbath and Keep it Holy
Who does he think he's fooling?

18thandBoston, (6/10/2009 9:37:22 AM)

"Feds need to stay out of local affairs [except when they are giving massive amounts of funding and manpower to the things I take for granted that make my life possible]"

Skeptic, Tulsa (6/10/2009 10:00:41 AM)

"Commissioners were approached about erecting the monument by several men who had recently converted to Christianity" - TW

Makes you wonder how sympathetic the commissioners would have been to those who had recently converted to any other religious hobby.

Graychin, Eucha (6/10/2009 10:08:48 AM)

"I hate it. Everybody hates it. No one likes it," Barnes said of the decision.

Wrong again, Mr. Barnes. I like it.

Because of what 18thandBoston said.

Ignatz, Broken Bow (6/10/2009 12:48:38 PM)

Sad that so many truly ignorant people get elected to office Oklahoma's hick counties.

Redneck Girl, Slick (6/10/2009 3:36:49 PM)

If our rights as "Bible Thumpers" are so predatory - than exactly where do you think you would be if our founding fathers had not decided to "Trust In God" and spare the lives of their families and friends so that WE may have a country that is FREE -
That is EXACTLY why we have freedom of speech and religion -
The ONLY ignorance here is those of you who so blatantly take for granted all that has been given you at someone else cost - including that of the "Bible Thumpers" - Savior - Christ. America is built on far more than that - so it is you that needs to look for another nationality..Not I.

Ignatz, Broken Bow (6/10/2009 3:45:04 PM)

Redneck Girl (perhaps the most appropriately chosen name on these posts), your "rights" aren't "predatory". Your actions in trying to shove your arcane beliefs down the throats of the rest of us are just the behavior of intolerant bullies. The "founding fathers (nearly all Deists, not fundamentalists) ..spared the lives of their families and friends"...what in the world does that mean in English? The Jesus in my Bible could have cared less about rocks on government property. He had a much higher calling.

Proud Liberal, Weatherford (6/10/2009 9:40:48 PM)

nagnagnag,

We are free to believe in whatever we wish. However, I don't see the proponents of Islam or the Flying Spaghetti Monster trying to place their religious monuments on government property.

If anyone thinks that it is OK to place such a monument on public property, ask yourself how you'd feel if it were a Hindu or Muslim or FSM monument. Would you feel the same?

Bedazzled, (6/11/2009 1:36:07 AM)

As a Christian I am against the monument since all the states are underfunded the money could be put to better use to help.

LollieDot, Poteau (6/11/2009 4:35:52 PM)

I know and love Don and Vickie Barnes. I think putting it on Broadway is fine. And I never loved the Constitution of America before like I do now, but after eight years of the Bush administration treating it like toilet paper, amazingly I love it and want it protected more than ever. So please folks, consider this:

The First Amendment to the United States Constitution, reads, "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof . . ."
The purpose of the separation of church and state has always been to protect our government from any religious group taking the reins. Like the founders of our country, I support it strongly. I still love Don and Vickie, we just see this from different perspectives.

OkeyDokey, Anytown USA (6/12/2009 1:31:52 AM)

It would probably save a lot of legal fees and, controversy and bitterness if everyone who wants to display those Commandments would do so on private property. I think Barnes has made a good decision, one that will save tax dollars and the county will not have to allow numerous other statues etc on the courthouse lawn. The ACLU even stated that they would not object to one being on private property. Going head to head on issues like this is perhaps one reason why the country is now so divided and in such a state of discontent, people at each others throats when people fought and died for ALL Americans to enjoy the same rights, liberties and freedoms, regardless of religion or faith OR to have no religion or God at all, plain and simple.

KGC, Stigler (6/12/2009 1:39:14 AM)

This reply is in 2 parts due to posting limits

Part 1

Hmmm, Well let’s see

Okay

First to address ( every persons right to express and opposing view ) on any topic of discussion is undoubtedly one of our greatest freedoms. So rest assured I take no issue with anyone exercising that right, in fact I consider having that right myself extremely important.

Next ( The discussion topic ) The Appeals Court decision about a monument of The Ten Commandments located on the Court House lawn in Haskell County in Oklahoma. ( Reason for Cause of Action ) A First Amendment Clause which states “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof”

Looks cut and dried but is it ( Our laws can be very confusing ) what with all the hair splitting in our courts now days. Here’s a brief example. Let’s say I offer a politician money to sway his vote, I have commited bribery right? But if a corporate representive does the exact same thing he is lobbying. I’m confused, don’t we all live under the same set of laws? I guess I need to research some facts about this monument while I ponder how to interpret the Amendment Clause since the monument wasn’t placed on the white house lawn and nobody put congress to the trouble of making a new law.

It took some time on the phone but finally ( I have facts about the monument ) maybe knowing the monuments ( true origin and the intent behind it ) will help me decide how I feel about the courts decision.

Fact 1. I understand from my research that a youth group from a area church raised money to do something for their community to show their appreciation for the love, support and kindness of the people in both their Church and community.

Fact 2. The kids submitted ideas on how to spend the money they raised then voted on which of the ideas would be chosen. The Ten Commandments project was picked by the kids as the best way to show their appreciation to their community their Church and The Lord for the blessings in their life.

Fact 3. The decision to ask if the monument could be placed on the Court House lawn also was the kids idea. The pastor took their request to the board of commissioners. Who were very proud of the efforts of the children. The commissioners gladly approved their request.

Fact 4. The apparent outcome was ( kids who were proud of their efforts ) + ( A community who is extremely proud of it’s young people ) + ( County officials who felt honored to serve the people and were also very proud of all the young people ) + ( The court case and the decision which we are now discussing )

KGC, Stigler (6/12/2009 1:40:32 AM)

This reply is in 2 parts due to posting limits

Part 2
Were the commissioners wrong in their decision about to allow the monument to be placed at the Court House? To answer that I will have to look at my own life and the effects of being around Christian people and attending Church. My mother always took all six of her children to Church. My dad worked very hard to provide for our family. He fully supported the need for us to attend Church and eventually became a member of the Church himself. At Church we met many wonderful people from the area. Who happily devoted a lot of their time to working with the kids. They taught us about God and Jesus, Moses, King David, Jonah, Noah, and many other bible figures. But what I remember most is how they stressed the importance of having compassion for others, respect for our parents and our elders, to remember we were all equal no matter what social status, race or faith and to realize each person was entitled to their own opinions. Also to take pride in everything we do. To always use the words ( Ma’am & Sir, Please & Thank You ) and through our courtesy, compassion, humility, morals and manners others would see Gods love in your heart. During my senior year I worked part time at a auto dealership. One Christian man who worked there always comes to mind when Christians are mentioned. He was always happy and very funny he went out of his way to make you feel like you were a important part of the team. My dad who always worked a lot found the time to teach me how to hunt, mechanic, drive both a car and later a semi truck, how to ride and care for horses how, to weld and operate a loader, dozer, scraper and that the most important things were to love and cherish your family, respect others and to thank the Lord for your blessings. One of the things hes said will always stick with me even though he has passed on. He would say Son if you tend to your own business you will have a full time job. ?

Well with all of the above considered I would have to say I’ve found enough wiggle room to believe the Haskell County Commissioners made the right choice in allowing the monument. I must also mention the kids from our Church received a very nice thank you letter from some soilders in Iraq last week for their prayers and letters and a care package they sent to the soilders, who said they were proud of the kids for being Christians. I know my opinion is a biased one but I am sure my facts are straight. You see the christian man I mentioned who was always happy was Haskell County Commissioner Henry Few and My Father was Sam Cole the chairman of the board of Haskell County Commissioners that okayed the monument. ( Described in a previous post as the truly ignorant people get elected to office in Oklahoma's hick counties.) both were in a picture beside the monument on June 8th in the Daily Oklahoman. And my Mother is Anna Cole who contributed to this article in the Tulsa World. I might add one more thought I am 51 and one of the first things I use to determine someone’s level of intelligence is their respect of the opinions of other people.

For all the Christians in this forum I pray the Lord will watch over you and your family and friends. For all the others my prayers are the same.

Good Night Everyone and God Bless You All
Sincerely; Kenneth Cole

OkeyDokey, Anytown USA (6/12/2009 1:43:09 AM)

Vern...I too know Mr. Barnes and I wonder if you do ? Or,are you judging someone you may have never even met ? Lot's of folks seem to do that now a days. What do YOU know about Mr. Barnes that makes you so bitter towards him ? As I have known him he has always tried to do good things for his fellow man. I visited with him at length one day awhile back and he told me that as a Vietnam veteran he was just upset to know that 58,000 Americans died in Vietnam alone for their country and now they are probaby turning over in their graves because of their country being in such a mess !
He told me that it was not just a religious matter and that he was not trying to force anything on anyone. He also told me that no tax money was going to be spent on it ! I believe Mr. Barnes to be a good man with no ill intentions for anyone.