DT, (6/26/2009 8:00:08 AM)

In the landmark Harjo case, the federal courts said that, although the governments of all five tribes had been "expressly continued", it was the BIA's policy to "act like they had been destroyed". The court called this nothing less than "bureaucratic imperialism". With this opinion, Mr. Echohawk seems determined to take this to new heights and define an indigenous people according to the whims of the same colonialist mentality, rather than recognizing their right to define themselves. Congratulations, Mr. Echohawk. You haven't even been sworn in yet, and already you have made a mockery of every promise Pres Obama made when he campaigned seeking the support of Indian people.

Graybeard, Tulsa (6/26/2009 9:18:45 AM)

Mr. Obama promised a lot of things to the American people. He promised "Change". I fear much of the change we will not like. So DT......get off your chair and speak to your Senators and Representatives....I do. We all must take a stand for what we believe in and for what is right and just....and not let someone jam an edict or law down our throats.

Ed 8 R, Non (6/26/2009 9:26:39 AM)

Come on "DT" is that the best you can do? You Chad Smith, Mike Miller spin doctors need to start looking for a real job. The so-called Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma has just had their cover pulled away and now the World can plainly see the nasty deed in which they are engaged. Again you attack the messenger, Mr. Echohawk, for doing his job according to law. Got some news for you DT and the other interlopers that are attempting to divert public opinion from the truth. Federal Court will not be considering your propaganda. The Courts will rule according to law. The same law this well founded decision compiled by Mr. Echohawk presented.

What the ?, Tulsa (6/26/2009 9:34:31 AM)

This will play out in court for years, Eddie. Don't get too excited.

Mike Miller, Catoosa (6/26/2009 10:27:06 AM)

It’s important to have a little perspective when you read this letter because it is preposterous for anyone to think that the footnote of an administrative letter overturns federal case law and centuries of recorded history.

While the Department of Interior may have the luxury of ignoring federal law and opinions from federal courts, the Cherokee Nation does not follow that practice. As recently as this month, the United States Court of Appeals 10th Circuit rejected the very arguments that are put forward in this administrative letter, in its decision, UKBCIO vs. HUD. The federal courts have ruled in favor of the Cherokee Nation and against the UKBCIO on this issue so many times that in the most recent case it only spent one sentence throwing out the entire argument, because there was no use rehashing it. In fact, the courts have time and again held that the Cherokee Nation today is indeed the historic Cherokee Nation, which is why the Cherokee Nation has treaty rights and the UKBCIO does not, and why the Cherokee Nation has a treaty-based geographical area.

This letter does not have the force of law, but federal court opinions do. And the court opinions, cited in the letter and backed up earlier this month, say that the Cherokee Nation today is the historic Cherokee Nation. Federal courts say the Cherokee Nation has treaty rights and jurisdiction and the UKBCIO does not. Federal courts say the Cherokee Nation needs no successor in interest at all, and that the UKBCIO is most certainly NOT a successor in interest. Federal courts disagree with almost every historic premise upon which this administrative letter are based.

While it is obvious that the letter’s author has sympathy for the fact that the UKBCIO does not have treaty rights, the BIA cannot throw out 300 years of recorded Cherokee history and federal law based on sympathy alone.

Ed 8 R, Non (6/26/2009 10:35:30 AM)

I see where you stand Whatie, right behind the horse's tail with a bucket of cold water just after breeding. Please excuse my crude example but a splash of cold water immediately after copulation does two things. One it instantly removes the obvious transpired action but at the same time seizes the seed for gestation. You spin doctors think you are clearing evidence of the penetration by Mr. Echohawk,s decision but only help to make fast the seed of truth regarding the status of the so-called Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma. Was that too exciting for you, from where you stand Whatie?

What the ?, Tulsa (6/26/2009 11:15:06 AM)

Eddie: Read post above yours. I rest my case.

Oldfatdude, Shattrath (6/26/2009 11:16:33 AM)

Just seems silly to me. I don't know any of the facts, but it would appear that if the two groups came together they would both benefit.

What the ?, Tulsa (6/26/2009 11:21:12 AM)

Yes, Oldfatdude, it most certainly would. But you have forces behind the scenes (i.e. Ed, JC, etc) that keep things stirred up. It will never end. We'll all be gone and it still will not be settled.

Gambler, tahlequah (6/26/2009 11:39:00 AM)

Mr. Miller apparently decides to plea his case based on small and shady court decision victories that hold no real relevance to the decision to allow the UKB trust status. I would ask that everyone look at the facts and ask themselves "which tribe did it the LEGAL way to begin with?" Since you are so concerned about the "legal" perspective Mrs. Miller then why in black and white, fact not fiction, does it plainly stste the UKB was infact reorganized under the Indian Reorganization Act 25 years prior to CNO? Guess facts aren't somrthing that CNO is willing to quote or discuss! You might also ask yourself wh rejected the original 2005 application...that's right, a member of CNO that based her decision on absolute B.S. Figure it out an let's not be too greedy Mrs. Miller. Send my regrads to Mrs. Smith.

Gambler, tahlequah (6/26/2009 11:51:59 AM)

"Centuries of recorded history"...yeah lets take a peek and see who's foot lands directly in their mouth with that comment. Nice going Mrs. Miller, dig yourself a deeper hole in regards to this argument! There is no question that the UKB deserves equal rights and opportunity and if this decision doesn't affect CNO, then why keep appealing and bullying the UKB? Oh, because your endless supply of royalty checks may become decreasingly less! Try helping your tribal members more often instead of stuffing your pockets. I can promise you the UKB will use the additional funds FOR THE PEOPLE!

missy,,,m, no thanks (6/26/2009 12:15:51 PM)

Ha?

snakeman, tahlequah (6/26/2009 2:05:55 PM)

The Cherokee people are one of the same. UKB or CN, but Chad Smith once being a UKB member, is no longer a member. The UKB kicked him out. HUD gave back to the UKB it's money for housing that the C.N. tried to eliminate. C.N also said that the UKB could not hold land in trust. This measure says it can. We as Cherokees cannot continue to fight amongst ourselves. The poor cherokees who need services get nothing,but the run-around by those leaders who continue to fight over who has power to do what they do. The BIA still has power given to them by the Federal Government to police policy of all tribes. Until the BIA is no longer a player of decisions, it will always favor what the Federal Government wants. Treaties are what they are. Some have merit some don't. Depends on which court judges rule on. We win and few, we lose a few. That's have its been for ages since the settlers of the east have done to the Native Americans. The real Cherokees are the full- bloods. Who do not have a real voice in either governments. It's the cherokee wannabees who make the decisions and make the most noise. I was a Cherokee way before it was cool to be cherokee or any kind of Native American. Most of the people in charge now when i was in school did't want to be call a indian or say they are cherokee even when they were by blood. Now they say i'm cherokee. Why can't we just be Cherokee period. The issue will feed the ones who want noting more than see us Cherokees going down.

snakeman, tahlequah (6/26/2009 2:12:36 PM)

The Cherokee people are one of the same. UKB or CN, but Chad Smith once being a UKB member, is no longer a member. The UKB kicked him out. HUD gave back to the UKB it's money for housing that the C.N. tried to eliminate. C.N also said that the UKB could not hold land in trust. This measure says it can. We as Cherokees cannot continue to fight amongst ourselves. The poor cherokees who need services get nothing,but the run-around by those leaders who continue to fight over who has power to do what they do. The BIA still has power given to them by the Federal Government to police policy of all tribes. Until the BIA is no longer a player of decisions, it will always favor what the Federal Government wants. Treaties are what they are. Some have merit some don't. Depends on which court judges rule on. We win a few, we lose a few. That's have its been for ages since the settlers of the east have done to the Native Americans. The real Cherokees are the full- bloods. Who do not have a real voice in either governments. It's the cherokee wannabees who make the decisions and make the most noise. I was a Cherokee way before it was cool to be cherokee or any kind of Native American. Most of the people in charge now when i was in school did't want to be call a indian or say they are cherokee even when they were by blood. Now they say i'm cherokee. Why can't we just be Cherokee period. The issues will feed the ones who want noting more than see us Cherokees going down.

What the ?, Tulsa (6/26/2009 2:12:52 PM)

I hear you, Snakeman.

tao4mind, Enid (6/26/2009 8:13:35 PM)

Hole in the sky.

TK1, (6/27/2009 2:10:27 AM)

Lightning, when you hope Christians burn in hell, does that include Native American Christians?

TK1, (6/27/2009 7:58:11 AM)

So Lightning, your answer to sins against Native Americans is to condemn their offspring to hell?

TK1, (6/27/2009 9:08:02 AM)

Lighting, you say your mission is to teach, but then you also say,

" I hope all you christians burn in hell for aiding and abetting this genocide against the indians."

That statement is pretty clear. There is no misunderstanding. You will never get your message across through hatred and in trying you are demonstrating the same qualities that you most detest in the Christians that have disappointed you.

TK1, (6/27/2009 10:45:11 AM)

Lightning,

Hating for fun?

What the ?, Tulsa (6/27/2009 11:04:50 AM)

Lightning needs to get a life. Such a sad individual.

cherokeeprincess, (6/27/2009 11:24:20 AM)

I cannot believe Echohawk can be an Indian and be so ignorant of Indian history. I guess he believes the Trail of Tears didn't happen either.

cherokeeprincess, (6/27/2009 11:33:36 AM)

The UKB is just a group of Cherokees who took their marbles and decided to play their game somewhere else. They created their own "band" and won federal recognition, but they are still just an off shoot of the original Cherokee tribe. And, btw, we are the Cherokee Nation, period, not the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma. I don't know why people want to get that so wrong. Good grief, folks, study Indian history.

What the ?, Tulsa (6/27/2009 12:45:25 PM)

Who you condemn has absolutely no relevance in any of our lives, Lightning (Mr. deliberately excluded), you poor,pitiful soul. What you do doing your day is of no importance to us. DUH?

Ed 8 R, Non (6/27/2009 5:35:27 PM)

Mike Miller said; “This letter does not have the force of law.” I have to ask; what makes Mike Miller qualified to make such a determination? Mr. Miller is 100% white and claims Cherokee Citizenship due to his ancestor’s purchase of Cherokee Citizenship. Mr. Miller is not a lawyer but is a paid PR spokesperson for Chad Smith and the Cherokee Nation of Oklahoma. The Echohawk letter does have the force of law. Mike Miller’s statement is propaganda and is just outrageous! I cannot believe the CNO cronies are actually espousing such nonsense and even dare to characterize a formal legal opinion of a federal agency clearly setting forth a legal decision on the merits as not being "law." They are scoundrels or idiots or both! Consider the hypocrisy; a recent issue concerning term limits where the opinion of Diane Hammons granted Chad Smith the ability to run for 4 consecutive terms where the CNO constitution limits terms to 2 was treated as law. Now in the CNO press we see Hammons saying, “Echohawk is wrong.”

“He’s just wrong,” she said. “He couldn’t be more wrong. We’re sorry, but he’s gotten some bad advice from some of the people in his office.”

So I ask you who has credibility? Who do you believe?