Libertista, BA (3/8/2009 10:59:42 AM)

I'm going to get shot for saying this, but I think ALL farm subsidies should be cancelled, and no one should get any money. People being paid NOT to produce runs counter to the nature of humans. If farmers can't make it on their own, if bankers and carmakers can't make it on their own, they should just go bankrupt and/or in foreclosure like everyone else.

I know people who have bought large pieces of land that hasn't been farmed in decades, and are getting checks from the government NOT to farm it, which pays the loan for the land they bought. IN a sense, they are getting taxpayers to pay for their land.

The fear mongering about milk and food prices is useless because runaway inflation is going to jack those prices up soon anyway.

All anyone has to do is say: "It's for the children. Do IT FOR THE CHILDREN!!"

- And the government will give them money and you're a nazi for thinking it's not right or fair.

CPT Ron, Lawton (3/8/2009 11:02:42 AM)

All farms should charge what it costs to produce goods plus a fair profit. Get the government out of price controls and that is the way it will be.

Eliminate all government subsidys. Government subsidys are paid with taxes taken from the people. Give the people back their tax money and let them buy groceries with it.

Dwight Schrute, (3/8/2009 11:56:11 AM)

Liberista, if thats what you want, tell the beef industry to quit importing all this cheap beef from Australia and Argentina, and Canada subsidized by those countries. A lot of pork comes in from Canada also subsidized. A farmer /rancher is hard pressed to make a living with all the inputs that go into producing a gallon of milk, a pound of meat and a loaf of bread. He is producing with income comparable to what he was making decades ago. Only now with expenses from todays costs. Family farms are struggling. As they die,so do the smaller rural communities. The family farmer is the lifeblood for a great many rural towns. While I agree the large corporate farms don't deserve all they get, don't penalize the family farmers.
The CRP program is one that they need to make some changes to.Bankruptcy or forclosure is the last thing that needs to happen to a family farmer. They are doing all they to make a living despite everything they have against them, mother nature, cheap imports subsidized by their country of origin, and goverment meddling. I would rather see them get the 900 million dollars going to the Hamas terrorist in Gaza.As far as prices go, if these big corporate farms produce everything, they will have as much control over food proices here as OPEC does the price of oil. Save our family farms!.. Gee , I almost sound like a liberal with this comment.

notyourfriend, (3/8/2009 12:31:00 PM)

Dwight no you sound more like a republican hypocrit.

Libertista, BA (3/8/2009 12:35:42 PM)

Family farms have always been "suffering." However, for some reason, with less land and less equipment, the Amish make money on farming. I don't think they get subsidies or would accept them. Explain that one.

If you are like me and believe that social security won't be there for the next generation, what makes you think those subsidies are going to continue much longer?

Dwight Schrute, (3/8/2009 12:37:35 PM)

No I went back and reread it notmyfriend. I sounded like a liberal. I wanted to spread the misery out equally to all alike!

Dwight Schrute, (3/8/2009 12:42:54 PM)

Oh yes Libetista, I forgot about all my Amish friends working off the farms in the RV and furniture industries, and housing trades, so they can keep up with their farming expenses and taxes. Thanks for bringing them up.Even without all the fancy machinery and implements and additional land, they can't make ends meet off their farm income alone. That speaks volumes. What is really obscene with these subsidies is the fact that 10 % of the recipients are getting 66 % of the money.

DirtyWhiteHouse, (3/8/2009 12:49:03 PM)

Nobama go home.

Libertista, BA (3/8/2009 12:55:59 PM)

The Amish work outside the industry because there is not enough land to pass down to future generations for it to be profitable to all their descendants.

And what's wrong if the others work in other industries? They don't have a right to work?

The Amish make their farms work better than the English because they are not stupid and over leverage themselves. Why should other Americans support your $35,000 trucks, SUV's, 4-wheelers, hobby horses, and other stuff when you are not using that money to produce anything? You are getting that money to keep prices artificially high. Without subsidies, those prices would collapse then we wouldn't have to import cheaper food.

"What is really obscene with these subsidies is the fact that 10 % of the recipients are getting 66 % of the money."

Well, just think, in 5 to 10 years, none of you will get any money when America is broke so then it will all be fair.

Rocketman, Tulsa (3/8/2009 12:57:56 PM)

Government manipulating the free market to help control the balance of production for the needs of the country. I can take both sides of this argument. Does that make me a Coneral?

Dwight Schrute, (3/8/2009 1:00:21 PM)

That or a Libertive Rocketman ! :)

Mar, Tulsa (3/8/2009 1:02:07 PM)

I agree with Libertista. It is insane to have taxpayers' money be given to farmers, large or small for not using their land. But it is also unfair to have so much in the way of imports from other countries coming here, be it foods, clothing, etc. The trade is so unbalanced and leans so against the U.S., it is a wonder there are even any manufacturing companies left in the U.S. at all or even any farmers left.

DirtyWhiteHouse, Obama is home and there are a lot of stupid voters out there a year from now that will be wishing they hadn't put him there.

Dwight Schrute, (3/8/2009 1:25:12 PM)

Libertista, nothing wrong with working off the farm. Most Mennonites and Amish I know do. The point I thought you were trying to make was that the Amish were superior to the English family farmer through their farming methods. I merely was pointing out that they too struggle to make ends meet.They not only have the RIGHT to do this, they do it out of NECESSITY.It is difficult for everyone to pass a farm down to descendants due to inheritance taxes etc. Also just a little fyi, the farmer is seeing nothing of these artificially high prices you speak of. That is coming from the food manufacturers and packing plants, then the grocery stores get their cut off the top.Have to laugh at your inference that farm subsidies are going to bankrupt this country given all the billions we are throwing at banks, auto manufacturers and forign countries, and various pork barrell projects. Farmers are definitley at the bottom of this food chain when it comes to dollars and cents.

Libertista, BA (3/8/2009 1:37:16 PM)

"Have to laugh at your inference that farm subsidies are going to bankrupt this country given all the billions we are throwing at banks, auto manufacturers and forign countries, and various pork barrell projects."

I never made that inference. When I said that SS would soon be broke, and that America is broke, and all those being bailed out in my first post, I thought I had covered the ground that the cause of the debt had been spread out pretty good. Farm subsidies are just one part of the big government welfare state system.

You inferred wrong.

Farm subsidies were set up to keep farmers from depressing prices from over-production. Don't blame me if you're not getting the prices you want. When government got involved, of course it was going to go to crap.

The good news I think is that family farms won't disappear, they'll just look different. Declining oil production is going to kill corporate, big and medium size farms. Without cheap oil, for fuel and fertilizer, they can not be profitable. The global depression will shut down globalization and will see the move from globalism to localism. Bringing in vegetables from California, Mexico, etc., will no longer be profitable. More foodstuffs will have to be grown/produced closer to home. Farms will have to find new business models and some of those will include 5 to 20 acre speciality farms.

That is, unless someone invents a solar powered tractor.

And I hate it for the people in Arizona and New Mexico. Tough for them. They're running out of water just for people. Forget about trying to grow anything. Coastal desalinization plants and pipelines is the only solution I can guess at -besides severe rationing.

I'm Reliable, (3/8/2009 1:52:45 PM)

I strongly support Libertista!! The federal government should stop all farm subsidies and let free markets worldwide work!! If that means Americans getting food sources from other countries so be it. American farmers will produce whatever crop is in demand. We already import alot of food, like bananas and have for many years...... I say LET FREE MARKETS WORK!!!

Dwight Schrute, (3/8/2009 2:05:47 PM)

Thats all good and fine reliable, if they are on a level playing field. The other countries are subsidizing their producers at a much higher rate. Thats why the imports are so cheap. Maybe a tarriff would work if that would make everything fair for everyone.But lets face it , bananas do seem to grow just a little bit better in the tropics than in the great plains.

tfromtulsa, Tulsa (3/8/2009 2:15:57 PM)

Maybe BO will give subsidies to Mexican farmers.

retired x2, Canadian (3/8/2009 2:18:48 PM)

I have a small cow/calf operation and get zip from the gov't. A few years ago we had the big ice storm and red'd a letter saying if you didn't lose at least $1000 dollars worth of stuff, fences etc. don't apply. Get rid of the subsides, it only benefits the big boys.

retired x2, Canadian (3/8/2009 2:19:20 PM)

I have a small cow/calf operation and get zip from the gov't. A few years ago we had the big ice storm and rec'd a letter saying if you didn't lose at least $1000 dollars worth of stuff, fences etc. don't apply. Get rid of the subsides, it only benefits the big boys.

CPT Ron, Lawton (3/8/2009 2:21:34 PM)

The USA did not subsidize camera makers when cheap cameras came in from Japan, and the USA did not subsidze oil producers when cheap oil came in from the Middle East, and the USA did not subsidize small business when WALMART came in, so why should the USA subsidize farmers when cheap food comes in from Canada, Australia and Argentina?

Let the free market work and the consumer will get the best goods at the best price in our new global economy.

Dwight Schrute, (3/8/2009 2:35:40 PM)

I can make you guys a heck of a deal on Chinese milk and chocolate, and its selling dirt cheap too.

Rocketman, Tulsa (3/8/2009 2:40:13 PM)

The other piece of the puzzle no one is mentioning is allowing farm ground to set for 10 years to help soil erosion. Remember the Dust Bowl? These subsidies are not just to pay farmers for doing nothing, they are paying farmers not to farm to conserve soil in some cases.

The old land bank program and the current conservation reserve program have proven we can prevent going back to the days of the dust bowl and have been a great help to wildlife.

With the low level of water in the Ogallala Aquafier that eight states use to irrigate crops it is an important natural resource to save. Putting land in the CRP program for 10 years that lies above this aquafier helps replenesh this vital resource.

Dwight Schrute, (3/8/2009 2:51:09 PM)

I was wondering if the US will require the foreign beef producers to implant computer chips for tracking purposes like they do here.If you want cheaper meat,do something about the collusion and ownership of feedyards and meat packing companies or the mergers of the large meat companies.They are doing this to control the markets. There is no such thing as a free market system. I would be the biggest cheeleader for it , if there was.

Dwight Schrute, (3/8/2009 2:51:55 PM)

Those are some very good points you mentioned there rocketman.

Libertista, BA (3/8/2009 2:59:48 PM)

You're right. There is no free market system. Since the 1930s, we've had a hybrid system of socialism/capitalism.

The world is an unfair place. It's unfair that a free trade agreement is 20,000 pages long when it should only be 1 page long, and it's unfair that I have to pay a crap load of taxes to subsidize the whole fiasco.