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Capitol religious marker backed
With few objections, the Senate gives a nod to the 10 Commandments.
By BARBARA HOBEROCK World Capitol Bureau
Published:
4/21/2009 2:22 AM
Last Modified: 4/21/2009 3:17 AM
OKLAHOMA CITY — The Oklahoma Senate passed a measure Monday that would allow for construction of a 10 Commandments monument on the Capitol grounds.
House Bill 1330 passed by a vote of 37-9. The measure heads to a conference committee.
Sen. Randy Brogdon, R-Owasso, is the Senate author. Rep. Mike Ritze, R-Broken Arrow, is the House author.
Private funds would be used to construct the monument.
However, the Attorney General's Office, which receives state funding, would be required to defend the measure if there is a legal challenge.
"We are going to spend a lot of money on this and lose," said Sen. Jim Wilson, D-Tahlequah.
Wilson said the state constitution bans spending money on religious items.
Brogdon said the U.S. Supreme Court has approved similar monuments. The legislation is based on a Texas law which withstood a challenge, he said.
Sen. Andrew Rice, D-Oklahoma City, suggesting amending the measure to require that private funds be used if there is a challenge. The measure did not get amended on the Senate floor.
Sen. Constance Johnson, D-Oklahoma City, called the measure "hypocritical" at a time when a proposed plaza recognizing the contributions of African Americans has yet to be built on the Capitol grounds.
A measure extending a panel to get it built with private funds did not get a hearing, Johnson said.
Proposals such as the 10 Commandments monument "continue to incite those who are uneducated
about the real issues going on in Oklahoma," said Sen. Judy Eason-McIntyre, D-Tulsa.
Brogdon, who is running for governor, said the 10 Commandments have a historical significance.
McIntyre called the issue a political ploy to aid in his bid for governor.
She said the issue appeals to those interested in wedge issues and little else. If the subject matter is "not about God, gays or guns," a segment of society is not interested in it, Eason-McIntyre said.
The measure does nothing but "perpetuate division," Eason-McIntyre said.
Brogdon said he sponsors measures he truly believes in.
Barbara Hoberock (405) 528-2465
barbara.hoberock@tulsaworld.com
By BARBARA HOBEROCK World Capitol Bureau
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Report Comment
jhill
, Tulsa (4/21/2009 6:29:29 AM)
Ironside,
It's not as if they had important things to do.
Report Comment
droopy
, wagoner (4/21/2009 6:42:32 AM)
Ah, the smell of spring in the air, the dimlibs complaining about Oklahoma, the legisature, judges, etc.
Report Comment
Intermittently Semi-Serious
, Broken Arrow (4/21/2009 7:05:42 AM)
I'll repeat myself...score one for the good guys!
Report Comment
tsks
, tulsa (4/21/2009 7:16:36 AM)
I have found that posting the ten comandments by my toliet is a great way to get people to read them.I can feel proud that anyone that spends time in my home can learn them and I don't need to spend a lot of money to spread the word in such a devisive way.
Report Comment
rdhm
, (4/21/2009 7:19:45 AM)
Why don't we start putting signs out side of the non tax paying churches that say "IN MONEY WE TRUST"? There is a historical record that Churches have not paid taxes since this country was created. There is a great historical record also of them loving money.
Report Comment
Bigbadbri
, Broken Arrow (4/21/2009 7:24:11 AM)
This has already been ruled unconstitutional. It will go to the Supreme Court and the monument will not be allowed to stay if it makes it on the front lawn in the first place. Does anybody remember the judge in Alabama (or was it Georgia, one the states with the rebel flag incorporated into its state flag)? Rest assured, Oklahoma will once again be the laughing stock of the country. Most of the Republicans in the lege are right wing rubes.
Report Comment
OkeyDokey
, Anytown USA (4/21/2009 7:32:53 AM)
"We have staked the whole of all our political instutitions upon the capacity of mankind for self-government, upon the capacity of each and all of us to govern ourselves, to control ourselves, to sustain ourselves according to the Ten Commandments of God".James Madison,the fourth president, known as "The Father of Our Constitution".
Report Comment
zahr1750
, (4/21/2009 7:34:13 AM)
Will they leave out the one about worshipping graven images?
Report Comment
tsks
, tulsa (4/21/2009 7:40:04 AM)
Better add "don't do drugs" to the list.
Report Comment
Bird1
, Tulsa (4/21/2009 7:42:45 AM)
1. A 10% tithe is a command from God, not the Churches. I'm sure a lot of Church Goers love money, but they will have account for that love when they are Face-To-Face with God. We all will.
2. The 10 Commandments Monument in Texas was allowed by the US Supreme Court. Okla is using the Texas Law as a pattern.
Report Comment
insider9909
, Cushing (4/21/2009 7:43:26 AM)
My ACLU dues are still up to date and my pledge to make this VERY EXPENSIVE still stands.
Report Comment
OkeyDokey
, Anytown USA (4/21/2009 7:53:51 AM)
Every government building in Washington. DC is adorned either inside, outside or both, with God's Ten Commandments, including the Supreme Court building. Eighty-six percent of American's are Christian's..getting a little tired of having to listening to the remaining fourteen-percent, who like the lady who responsible for taking prayer out of our schools and from sporting events, who want to take God's name out of our important legal documents and "In God We Trust" off of our currency...Why are we allowing this clear and obvious minorty overule us with their circumvention of the laws and their desire and intent to destroy this great country, by chipping away at it's very foundation ? Isn't that kind of like "biting the hand that feeds you" ?
Report Comment
rdhm
, (4/21/2009 7:55:00 AM)
It is funny all the right wing fruit cakes were all at their tea party the other day complaining about taxes. Please give me my tax money back from your freeloading faith based funding!
Report Comment
justiceawaits
, Claremore (4/21/2009 7:56:05 AM)
I am sure erecting a graven image instead of feeding the poor or housing the homeless will make god happy. NOT!!!
Report Comment
Bird1
, Tulsa (4/21/2009 7:58:00 AM)
IMO - Looking at a lot of these and other "Posts", several only get out of an article what they want to believe and others simply don't understand what they just read. I see this because I do the same thing, sometimes. I hate it, but we are all human. Forgive us.
Report Comment
tsks
, tulsa (4/21/2009 7:58:47 AM)
IMO is correct.The AG will be the one who has to defend this.All the talk of private funds to pay for legal fees when this goes to court is bogus.Read up on it.By the way I have been fighting the ballpark fiasco as well as the funding questions about the dams.One down.You know why I became a Democrat,because in order to vote in the primaries you cant be an ind.Also because Im not a hypocrite.
Report Comment
golfer girl
, (4/21/2009 8:13:39 AM)
I guess Brogdon would've voted for the low water dams if they were a tribute to Moses parting the sea or John the Baptist. Doesn't he know that it's hard to baptize anyone in a river with low water?? That's what will ultimately bring funds for the riverfront project... a walk-in ramp for baptisms. Owasso or BA would definitely get on board for a river baptism project.
The legal issue will be separation of church and state and not a funding question. I doubt Brogdon is willing to back all religious markers that come fully paid for.
Report Comment
billy8
, Sand Springs (4/21/2009 8:30:14 AM)
there are only two commandments that are in the leagal system and they should be the only ones displayed: THOU SHALT NOT KILL, THOU SHALT NOT STEAL. the rest is just fluff from an mythical superstion that has no valid proof.
Report Comment
blimp
, Tulsa (4/21/2009 8:42:46 AM)
They can put it next to the monument to stupidity
Report Comment
ttownjr
, Tulsa (4/21/2009 9:12:49 AM)
Well said, Blimp. This is just Mr. Brogdon attempting to boost his chances to become governor. "Dear Lord, Save us from your followers." Of course none of the other candidates will have the guts to fight this. They wouldn't want to be acccused of being "against" the Ten Commandments. More wasted time and money courtesy of the wingnuts.
Report Comment
redbeard
, Stillwater (4/21/2009 9:25:55 AM)
In these tough times,spending money to defend a lawsuit against some statue that most people don't care about is wasteful.
Brogdon and Ritze are wasting our taxpayer dollars on this project while there are thousands of Americans losing their jobs,homes and life savings.
Not a very Christian attitude IMHO.
Report Comment
Respighi
, (4/21/2009 9:37:20 AM)
Why was "Do not rape" left out of the Ten Commandments? Are we to assume that coveting is a greater offence?
Report Comment
Eric
, Tulsa (4/21/2009 9:50:44 AM)
...
And all other idols will be destroyed.
...
I suppose the next step is to pass a law outlawing all other religious beliefs in the state.
...
..
.
Report Comment
SEStone
, Tulsa (4/21/2009 9:59:02 AM)
OkeyDopey, 86% of Americans are NOT Christian, and 86% of Americans do not live in Oklahoma. I don't know where you got those statistics, and I'm not sure what that has to do with this discussion and OKLAHOMA.
I'm just thankful that OKC is the capital and has to suffer with this monument, and not Tulsa.
Report Comment
tsks
, tulsa (4/21/2009 10:39:53 AM)
SEStone,dont give the mayor any ideas.You know shes always trying to get people to come to Tulsa.I can see the tour bus now...
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