Biker Patriot, Broken Arrow (10/28/2009 11:28:56 PM)

This law is not consistent with the US Constitution. The people will tire of this bravo sierra soon and positive change will happen. Your "New America" will tumble at the throne of God.

Biker Patriot, Broken Arrow (10/29/2009 9:05:13 PM)

Anyone who thinks the SPLC is a credible source of information need to have their head examined...

Biker Patriot, Broken Arrow (10/30/2009 9:14:03 AM)

Nope...Just stating facts. Google Morris Dees and see what you find out. Of course, the information you find out fits him right in with those here who support perverted lifestyles...By the way, his perversion is one of over 530 perversions "protected" by this legislation.

Basil, Tulsa (10/29/2009 8:32:41 AM)

Hate crime laws are superfluous. We already have laws on the books to punish crime, regardless of motive.

If someone murders someone in my family, I hope they receive the same punishment that they would get if the murdered a gay man. Why should any inequality in punishment exist, regardless of the reason for the crime. Fair is fair.

Basil, Tulsa (10/29/2009 8:34:37 AM)

I believe we're required to love one another, even if we don't love what others do, but merely hating another person or group isn't a crime in itself. We don't need thought police, scruitinizing all of our motives for everything we do or say. If we commit a crime, prosecute us.

Basil, Tulsa (10/29/2009 8:57:04 AM)

" . . . considering their Messiah was an unmarried guy in his 30s who hung out with 12 other unmarried guys and teached that 'it is better not to marry.'"

Anti-rube,

There's no reason to be so hateful toward those who are followers of Christ--although, I'll be the first to admit some "faux-Christians" have made a mockery of the true faith by taking the faith captive to their misinterpretations and reinventions of the faith.

Basil, Tulsa (10/29/2009 11:13:37 AM)

Hate, while unpleasant, isn't illegal. People have the freedom of conscience to maintain whatever beliefs they want, even if they are irrational. If they act on their beliefs and commit a crime, then we have laws in place to prosecute them. We don't need thought police crawling into our heads to determine if hate was a motive.

Having special protected classes is the ultimate in inequality--and many commments from those holding a liberal ideology reflect a total disregard for equality and respect for others. It's ironic that those who say they oppose hate are the most hateful toward others.

Basil, Tulsa (10/30/2009 10:50:09 AM)

"Basil, actually hate isn't merely unpleasant. Hate is evil."

We agree on that, but should hate be criminalized, or should we just prosecute those who break laws, fairly applying the same punishment, regardless of motive?

Our debt to others is to see the holy image of God within them, so if we view any class of individual as anything less than a unique creature made in God's image, worthy of all respect and love, then we are seeing evil residing within our hearts.

If I think any less of a gay man than my own sweet mother, than I am sinning against him. Every man has inherit dignity and worth, and we are commanded to love and not judge them, while we all work toward our complete healing and restoration as sons and daughters of God.

Jesus Himself said, I came not to judge man, but to save them. So, if Christ Himself didn't put himself in a place of judgement, how can we? Are we more holy than Christ? No, we must follow the command to love one another, and love overcomes a multitude of sins. We help each other find healing, when we truly learn to love one another.

Marguerite, The world is my home... (10/29/2009 6:47:10 AM)

Keep in mind this is a federal law. Oklahoma's hate crime law still doesn't cover sexual orientation. The best we can hope for is that, as the story states, local law enforcement will investigate any targeted attacks and forward the cases to federal authorities, who can take advantage of the newly expanded federal penalties. Wonder what the chances are of Oklahoma bringing its current law in alignment with the expanded federal one?

out here in the middle, Sand Springs (10/28/2009 10:37:42 PM)

I don't reckon that you have to go with
women to be a good daddy to a boy.

You been real square
dealing with me.

Bible says two men
ought not lay together.

But I bet you the good Lord
wouldn't send nobody like you to Hades.

Nobody ought to beat up anybody for any reason. Gay, straight, whatever. Don't be mean. All crimes are hate crimes.

Stop it.

out here in the middle, Sand Springs (10/29/2009 6:21:23 AM)

I used to have a problem with these kinds of laws, but I have changed my mind. I think they are good.
Essentially, they are anti-bully laws. I think about the bully in school, that decided that just because he was bigger and stronger, he was going to pick on someone. No particular reason, nothing incited the fight, he just decided to be mean.
People have to deal with that, and always have (unless you believe what Companion said--what a idiotic comment--people have committed acts of violence against others for years, not just since the Bush administration).
My concern is that now, anytime a gay person is the victim of a crime, will he/she say it was hate based on sexual orientation? If two people get into a bar fight, and the gay man loses the fight, will he get revenge by claiming it was a hate crime?
There is a lot of room for abuse in this law.

Tim Denver, Denver (10/29/2009 3:07:23 PM)

sr71v3, no one is trying to contol the thoughts of another group of people; however, if you have evil thoguhts towards people because of race, sexual orientaion, religion, or whatever, that is truly a scary thought. If your evil thoughts toward that group of people leads to violence, then, yes, it is a hate crime, and should be prosecuted as such.

Tim Denver, Denver (10/29/2009 3:09:12 PM)

I sugges, sr71v3, if you look at some one, and that person's race or sexuala orientation enrages you to the point you think evil thoguhts toward that class of people, may I suggest you seek out a professional and work out your anger issues?

Tim Denver, Denver (10/29/2009 3:12:41 PM)

Basil, actually hate isn't merely unpleasant. Hate is evil.

Tim Denver, Denver (10/29/2009 3:17:06 PM)

Also, if you dislike a specific class of people to the point you wish harm to them, hate them, you are actually destroying yourself internally, becoming an even less desirable person to be around. When you are hating a specific class of people, you need to delve deep inside yourself and discover why, and overcome that hate. you'll be a much happier, and more pleasant, person when you do this.

Tim Denver, Denver (10/29/2009 4:00:23 PM)

Sleepy tiger, no it's considered simply evil. Does that make you feel better?

Tim Denver, Denver (10/29/2009 4:18:53 PM)

not quite that simple, sr71v3. It would have to be proven i was beaten up msimply because I was gay, not because I was robbed and happened to be gay. The laws are very clear on that. Good thing dum dums aren't included in the hate crime bill---that courts would really be overwhelmed.

Tim Denver, Denver (10/29/2009 5:02:07 PM)

So, you guys are saying it's not okay to bash someone for the following reasons person's race, color, religion, ancestry, national origin or disability, but it is okay to bash because of someone's sexual orientation? Weird.

Tim Denver, Denver (10/29/2009 5:16:43 PM)

Basil:

If someone murders someone in my family, I hope they receive the same punishment that they would get if the murdered a gay man. Why should any inequality in punishment exist, regardless of the reason for the crime. Fair is fair.

What if someone murdered a member of your family because he, for some crazy reason, simply hated members of the Greek Orthodoxcommunity? Wouldn't that be a hate crime? I believe religious bias is considered a hate crime. Would you ask the police to take that off the case?

Tim Denver, Denver (10/29/2009 5:23:58 PM)

Ron, you gotta watch out for the gay mafia. LOL!

Tim Denver, Denver (10/30/2009 12:32:13 PM)

Unfortunately, Basil, until all segments of society are valued equally, and people do not commit crimes against others because of who they are, hate crime legistation is needed. do you feel crimes against the physically challenged should not be considered hate crimes, either? Or, how about crimes targeted specifically against children? Do you feel it is okay for a gang of thugs to target one specific person because of who he or she is and attack and kill?

Tim Denver, Denver (10/30/2009 3:26:07 PM)

Jess states "Hate crimes are idiotic. All crimes are hate crimes, don't care what their motive is. You have to believe in the "thought police" to think these are appropriate."

That'sa plain stupid comment. Since when is drunken driving, picking pockets, shop lifting, etc., commited in the name of hate?

FUTURE WORLD, Tulsa (10/29/2009 12:02:57 AM)

And so we slowly but surely move forward as a society controlled by fuzzy feel good laws.

Ayo, T-Town (10/29/2009 6:42:29 AM)

"There is a lot of room for abuse in this law."

There's always been a lot or room for leincy in the court, too.

Ask Mr. Ramariz in Shannandoah, PA who was beaten, and murdered by a gang of White guys. He was simply walking down the street. All football players, 'good kids' the town said. That jury of 12 White 'peers' let those 'good kids' basicly walk.

Times are a changin', yes they are.

Justun, tulsa (10/29/2009 6:37:20 AM)

I tend to agree with sr in this arena...If I kill someone(not accidently) then it would take hate as my motivation...same crime, should be same law applied!