Isaac Parker, Tulsa (11/7/2009 6:23:07 AM)

PELOSI: Buy a $15,000 Policy or Go to Jail
JCT Confirms Failure to Comply with Democrats’ Mandate Can Lead to 5 Years in Jail

Isaac Parker, Tulsa (11/7/2009 6:25:43 AM)

JCT = the non-partisan Joint Committee on Taxation

FinallyDebtFree, Broken Arrow (11/7/2009 6:34:03 AM)

It appears that this may just be slipping away.

They couldn't get the needed votes, so it has been suspended until this evening, allowing for a personal appearance by the Grand Pooba and his arm twisters.

Another big problem is that the AMA is also voting this morning on a motion to withdraw support for the bill, since it was only a vote by the board of trustees, not the members, that was waived in the air by the white house.

My family doctor is against the bill, and a member of the AMA. I wonder how may of those responding to these articles have actually talked to their doctors about it.

Salsa, Bradenton, FL (11/7/2009 6:41:13 AM)

Below is the information on the healthcare bill in regard to penalties. By the way Cherokee1 I am not Mexican. My name refers to the fact that I like to make and eat Salsa, however, it wouldn't bother me one bit if I were Mexican. I, unlike you, have no problem with people of different ethnic backgrounds being a part of this beautiful place called American.

The proposals in Congress each handle the individual mandate differently.

In the bills in the House of Representatives, a person who failed to get coverage would face a penalty of 2.5 percent of their modified adjusted gross income up to the cost of basic health insurance, as defined by the new national health insurance exchange. The House grants exemptions for dependents, religious objections and financial hardship.

In the Senate, the Health, Education, Labor and Pension Committee caps the penalty at $750. It exempts residents of states that don't establish health insurance exchanges, those for whom affordable coverage is not available, and those without coverage for fewer than 90 days.

The Senate Finance Comittee specifies a tax penalty of $950 for an individual and a maximum penalty of $1,900 per family. The penalties are a little lower if the person's income is below 300 percent of the poverty level. People are exempt from the mandate if they live below the poverty level, if the lowest cost insurance exceeds 10 percent of their income, or if there is financial hardship or religious objections.

Isaac Parker, Tulsa (11/7/2009 7:23:37 AM)

Salsa quote: I, unlike you, have no problem with people of different ethnic backgrounds being a part of this beautiful place called American.
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Most rational folks have no problem with Mexicans being in this country as long as they are here LEGALLY.

Eagle 4, Tulsa (11/7/2009 7:55:15 AM)

This "spin" is as hokie as the Right's prediction of a Socialist dictatorship. It's not about Obama, it's about whether we will allow the ruinous status quo of Medicine in this Country to eventually bankrupt us or if we can reform it to better and more equitably serve ALL Americans. This is not an Armageddon but only another skirmish in the decades-long war to achieve medical care for all citizens.

The Right's hysteria and false predictions have settled since they realize their power remains immense through the use of simple distortions and obstructionism.

mike2000, (11/7/2009 7:57:52 AM)

Health care reform passes and illegal aliens will be covered. There is no way they can not cover the illegals. Democrats have repeatedly voted against any kind of verification of citizenship.

So once free health care is passed, an additional 30 million Mexicans comen north. They realize that they too will receive free health care and be legalized. It is absolutely the end of the USA as we know it. It will be Mexico of the north with it's corruption and poverty.

It is sad for the younger people. I am glad I have no children.

Dr. Strangelove, Tulsa (11/7/2009 8:04:03 AM)

Cherokee1- let me get this straight. You yourself use government run healthcare because you're an Indian, but you're against it if the rest of us have access? Oh, and you somehow attach Muslims and the Ft. Hood shootings to the subject for good measure?

Thanks for the chuckle this morning, LOL

Dr. Strangelove, Tulsa (11/7/2009 8:05:45 AM)

mike2000, illegals already have free healthcare coverage, it's called the emergency room, and guess who's paying for it already?

DomoArrigato, Outside of Tulsa (11/7/2009 8:34:49 AM)

Once this bill is voted on, passing or failing, what will this site have for you to argue about then?

mr.peabody, country side oklahoma (11/7/2009 8:58:52 AM)

cherylann- you made some good points. It sounds like health care is strapping you pretty hard, no doubt. Can I ask, how much was the total cost of the services you received? It sounds like you spent 38k out of pocket.

Bart78, Sand Springs (11/7/2009 8:59:09 AM)

As I wrote in the comments on yesterday's ObamaCare article, it sure would be nice to have the TW tell us where Danny Boren stands on this matter.

FIRE GUNDY, TULSA (11/7/2009 8:59:34 AM)

Good comments cherylann, and a pefect example of why we need reform.

marine2.0, (11/7/2009 9:09:31 AM)

Ok Dr. and dustydumblaw, Please explain to me this-if illegals are allowed to get public insurance or buy in to the so-called public option, whoops my bad-consumer option,then how are they going to pay for it? Last I checked if you are illegal then you can not legally work in the US. So under your logic instead of doing things to enforce the laws and decrease the burden on tax payers that are paying for the illegals in the emergency care system we should just allow them to use (like they would use it)the money that they aquire illegally to pay for insurance premiums so that we the tax payers can pick up the rest of their medical expenses. Great let's add over 12 million illegals,let them pay approximately 20% for their coverage and the tax payers will cover the other 80%. Because we all know as illegals that they pay taxes,not,pay property tax,not, pay income tax, not.

calloy-look up definition of logic.

Eagle, what spin? What is the Constitutional authority for this monstrocity of legislation again? Have you read the bill or has anybody read the bill? I mean it is not like they have caused over 1.5 trillion in deficit spending with unemployment reaching 10%(16 actually) and attempting to add another trillion or take over private business through coersive goverment powers or attempting to take control of a 1/6 of our economy. how about that promiised transparency, how's that working? Keep grazing..........

tulsagerry, Tulsa (11/7/2009 9:11:22 AM)

Basic health care is a Civil Right! Even though you good Republicans would love to turn the clock back to the turn of the century where beggars died on the street, It ain't gonna happen! So , put away your jackboots, try and hide your racism, and join the Twenty-First century, for God's sake!

Popeye, T-Town (11/7/2009 9:19:03 AM)

The liberals on here used to love making fun of conservative "Okies". Yet "their" Congress and President behave like fools that believe is there are more checks in the checkbook, there has to be more money in the bank!

Here are some REPUBLICAN ideas for meaningful change. The cacophonus howl you hear from responsible citizens, would be virtually silenced if our "leaders" would secure some deficit reduction BEFORE spending like fools. Paste them on your fridge:

1. Bring back the WPA and put all of the people living on entitlements and government support into the program.
a) Make them a workforce. Some of the "disabled" could work in job placement roles or run daycares for the parents out working.
b) Train the workforce for specific jobs that benefit the infrastructure and that would make them desirable employees when they completed their service. They would eventually finish their service if they were forced to do something while on the dole.
c) Others could serve in an administrative capacity tracking hours worked, training, benefit absorption and more.
d) We have millions of people, receiving government subsistence, who are uneducated, unproductive, unskilled and in a hopeless situation. It is a travesty that we don't give them meaningful work so that they can at least learn the value of having earned something.

2. Admit that we have millions of illegals in our midst. Admit that they are probably never going to be forced out of the country. Admit that we have to recognize the ones here, but stop anymore from coming illegally; then we need to offer them a path to recognition:
a) Establish a $1,600.00 (whatever) fee, per person, for registering with the Social Security Administration.
b) Get them Social Security Numbers so they can be tracked. Make them file tax returns every year or face immediate deportation or fines.
c) Stop treating them at hospitals, or at the very least reimbursing the hospitals that treat them, unless they have valid SocSec Cards. Then, start billing them for services rendered.

3. If we are too weak to modify the tax code completely and establish a consumption tax to replace the income tax; then establish a Federal consumption tax of say 1.5% that would be totally refundable to ANYONE filing a Federal tax return. Hard-working, honest, tax-paying citizens would not mind paying a little bit every purchase knowing that at the end of the year they would get it all back. Plus, the increased revenue from dead-beats and illegals could put billions of dollars toward the deficit.

WhoseLeft, Tulsa (11/7/2009 9:22:01 AM)

Cherokee1, You have been misinformed. The conspiracy nutwork Worldnet Daily has reported that the shooter was an advisor. IN FACT he was in attendance at a CONFERENCE, he was NEVER an advisor.

marine2.0, (11/7/2009 9:22:16 AM)

Insider, you wouldn't know logic if it jumped up and bit you. What reform? Please instead of your typical whining and moaning about the so-called hysterical,unfounded claims of the right,point to where this lower costs andprovides for real competition.Those were the goals according to chairman Maobama. The CBO stated that it would not lower cost of premiums for private insurance and essentially raise them. How can one have true competition against the one that makes the rules? That's like a student grading themself or an umpire playing for one of the teams. It just doesn't work. How about this novel idea for competition-expand acess to isurance companies across state lines? Getting to compete with over 1000 different companies and 10,000 different plans. If that happened then the insurance companies that the administration claims to be against, would not have quietly supported this bill.
Logic lesson-If the CBO states that costs will not decrease are they wrong? Can the coercive power of government really create compitition when they are the ones competing? If you answer yes to any of the above you are an idiot.

flyingtheo, Broken Arrow (11/7/2009 9:33:02 AM)

Notice the picture of Steny Hoyer above? Why is it every time you see a photo of a stuffed shirt politician, they have their mouths wide open, spouting proclamations, pointing their fingers and are surrounded by microphones? As if they think the sheeple all believe that "this is the way it's going to be"?

mr.peabody, country side oklahoma (11/7/2009 9:38:39 AM)

Thanks Cheryl- enjoy your day

marine2.0, (11/7/2009 9:42:57 AM)

tulsagerry, what document grants us our civil rights, again? Is it the COTUS? Where is the right to healthcare listed? Where does it give the government the power to penalize one for not wanting or needing to purchase health insurance? What is BASIC healthcare? Who has died on the street lately as a result of the lack of governemnt run healthcare? Once again no substance just random babbling without an ounce merit. Then again what did I expect from a liberal.

cherlann,by my calculations you would have owed 26k+ without the insurance.Because you don't understand basic rules of business insurance it is not the insurances fault or underhandedness. The insurance was able to only pay $5600 do to a contract negotiation with the hospital to allow a win-win situation for both parties.

for all you liberals-How much did you pay for living expenses? Should that also be provided by the governemnt if you thnk that it is too expensive?

tulsagerry, Tulsa (11/7/2009 9:44:47 AM)

Zoltar, get off the comic channel and try to deal with reality!Sadly,this is way beyond your intelligence! I used to be a republican but sanity soon left the party! So , Zoltar, fluff up that rock and crawl back under!

marine2.0, (11/7/2009 9:50:55 AM)

Insider, what changes? What does this bill do? Point out the cost saving measures. Point to the constitutional authority to enact this legislation.
Great, I get it, you don't like capitalism or support the COTUS. You think the insurance companies 2-3% profit margin is outragious.you think that the government is a better provider than the individual.
What I don't get is do you have any evidence, any at all, that supports your claims. I have heard all the belly aching about what you think you deserve or have the right to and show me where that right is established.

RollinOkie, (11/7/2009 9:51:13 AM)

Here is a kick in the socialsts plan. I work for cash, live in my 2007 motorhome (paid for with cash), have no permenant residence (lot rental),so figure out how you are going to track me down and make me pay for something i do not want and that is totally unconstitutional. PS, if i get sick, i go to the nearest hospital, pay cash for services and leave.I don't rely on anything or anyone elst to assist me and my wife and we are doing fantastic. No governmental intrusion, babble, lies, or concerns. Think about your own situation. Less government is ALWAYS less problems. If you do not believe me just remember the hassle of filing taxes, waiting in line for a vehicle tag or new drivers license, ect. Long lines,lots of rules and regulations and lots of time lost from work. Hummm, government programs efficient??? Ha Ha. My self and my wife will continue to live off of the radar and in peace. Good luck suckers !!!!!!!!!!!

Faith, (11/7/2009 10:01:28 AM)

AARP BACKS THE DEMOCRATIC BILL THEY SAY THEY HAVE read the whole bill and it will save more than the Republican plan. The Republican Plan is almost the same as the status quo.

Get this down for America and stop thinking of your pocketbooks being filled by the insurance lobbyist Blue Dogs.