Scringe, Tulsa (11/24/2009 4:36:21 AM)

does anyone else see where the real problem lies here, its DHS and the government interfering in peoples lives and destroying families. wake up people if we don't make our voices heard now tomorrow will be too late, it may already be too late, 9/11 was our own government's fault and execution.

papajohn, henryetta (11/24/2009 7:15:16 AM)

sounds like a good case for state paid abortions to me.

busstop, (11/24/2009 8:37:02 AM)

The state should pay this, the state should pay that...HEY...WAKE UP! You and I...WE are the state. How much extra money do YOU have to spend on the problem...well, now you have less.

Golden Arrow, (11/24/2009 9:33:56 AM)

DHS isn't fit to care for animals, nevermind people. When my nephew was a baby, and I was trying to get temporary emergency custody (as he had been born addicted due to my sister's drug use)the DHS worker lied in court, and said that my sister, who has a rap sheet longer than the courthouse stairs, had NEVER been arrested. She thought my sibling deserved a 'chance' to turn her life around with this baby. Obviously, if this family member had actually given a crap, she wouldn't have used drugs during her pregnancy. It took two long, perilous years to finally get him away from her; at which point he had the body of a one year old, and was diagnosed 'failure to thrive'. If we hadn't gotten him then, he would not be alive now, no thanks to DHS.

born okay the 1st time, tulsa (11/24/2009 9:36:34 AM)

Information should be given into the possibilities & the things that may or may not lie ahead. That said, adoption is for life. You get what you get. Just as ones own biological child may develop issues, so may an adoptive child.

wkmd, Tulsa (11/24/2009 9:56:17 AM)

Golden Arrow WELL DONE! Sounds like you did a good thing in fighting to put a child in a better atmosphere. I have a different experience with the DHS that is actually quite positive. THe DHS employees were helpful,kind and worked hard to make sure we would get custody of 2 boys from my wife's sister. Now ours for 15 years!
Born ok...exactly! people going into the adoption process need to be aware that they have an influence on the child they adopt and need to take responsability. You get what you get, but you also grow what you get. Raising a child is about love, bio or adopted a parent provides more than a roof and food.

Oh My, Around Tulsa (11/24/2009 10:23:11 AM)

Case in point--Read the article in the TW recently published regarding Oklahoma physicians who have been censored. Not the psychiatrist from Tahlequah who was censored for having an inappropriate relationship with a patient. She offered no excuses for her lack of professionalism but stated that her husband had just died and her adopted daughter was brought to her father's funeral in shackles due to her behavior problems. Point is this is a adoptive parent with well over a decade of training and years of experience in treating persons with behavior issues and her own daughter still had significant problems.
I so respect families who adopt the children in DHS custody and feel that full disclosure and continued support for unexpected medical and mental health expenses that arise for these children should be funded by the state.

fld11, (11/24/2009 10:26:46 AM)

DHS needs to be discussed by the so called representatives that the people elect. This department is a nationally recognized joke.

Bill Strader, (11/24/2009 10:37:32 AM)

Typical DHS story with many untruths in it. No child is safe in Oklahoma adopted or not as long as the DHS has the authority to step in and often illegally take children from their parents so the statement that adopted children are the adoptee parents forever is not true if business is slow and the DHS needs children they will go to the family declare them unfit and take the kids again. Also they failed to say that these problems that these children supposedly have are a result of the treatment that they receive from the DHS. Yes the dhs is at fault the majority of the time and really needs to be audited by professionals outside the state into their tactics and treatment of children.

AdoptiveMom, Broken Arrow (11/24/2009 11:46:35 AM)

Unless folks have walked down this road, they can't understand it (I can't blame them, because I wouldn't have either before I started my journey.) First, the proposed study would be for extreme cases, not anyone who simply had a problem with a child. Second, giving a child back, or barring them from your home is an agonizing decision for ANY parent, adoptive or biological, and one I'd not wish on my worst enemy. Most of the adoptive parents I know with RAD kids including myself did not go into it expecting little angels, but we also didn't expect our lives to be in danger, either. Get what you get? When you adopt an older child, you don't always know what you are getting, and to be fair, DHS doesn't always know what they are giving. Since everyone thinks this is just like a bio child giving a parent problems, here is some food for thought . . . . if you learned that your bio child was sneaking into their sibling's room at night to molest them, what would YOU do? If you found out that your constant physical problems were due to your bio child poisoning you with the hopes you'll die soon, what would YOU do? Now what if there was no remorse for any of it, only resolve to try harder for success next time? Keep them in your home and hope you are not the next breaking news story when they succeed? Or do whatever you can to get them out to protect the rest of your family, and ache because of the decision for the rest of your life?

fld11, (11/24/2009 1:46:05 PM)

I certainly would never call DHS for any reason whatsoever. Remember that this is the same government that can't run the postal service, the so called war, social security, medicare, and health care reform. Anyone with even a shread of intelligence would never rely on these government hacks at this fly by night organization for anything. The workers actually believe that they are doing a great job. What kind of ignorance is that?

born okay the 1st time, tulsa (11/24/2009 3:04:27 PM)

Adoptive Mom, What would I do?
I'd seek out the very best care for them. If that meant isolating them from the ones they may hurt, even by institutionalization, then thats what I'd do.
Sometimes kids and adulta have issues. I hate to have the mindset that some kids cant be helped, but occasionally thats what it is. You hope for the best but prepare for the worst basically.
I would hope that before adopting an older child, they would have spent plenty of time with them & delved over every record about them that they had access to. This is where DHS CAN help. ALL records should be available to prospective parents, that is only fair.

kyote, (11/24/2009 7:11:49 PM)

Adoptive Mom, you can blame the DHS for your childs problems, they torture them to no extent your job is PARENTING!!!!!!!!!!!!! not whinning. Report all of this to your representative in hopes something will be done at the state level and you will learn to be a better parent.

Thankfulpeach, Somewhere Over the Rainbow (11/24/2009 7:16:22 PM)

Just like the 1997 legislative task force, this task force (those recommending the laws) is comprised of unequal representation. Most are adoption agency and attorney personnel (those who make their living in the business of adoption). The national trend for ethical adoption reform encourages any panel/task force to include an equal representation of those whose lives are actually affected by adoption, including adult adoptees, birth families, and foster/adopt families.
The fact that the federal government offers states and potential adoptive parents tax credits and financial "incentives" to increase numbers of adoptions, along with the fact that adoption fees and expenses are not regulated or limited (both private agencies & attorneys) increases the risk of unethical adoption practice.
Before terminating the rights of any "birth mother", she needs to be provided both separate legal counsel, as well as separate counseling (not connected to the adoption agency) to better ensure protection for all involved ~ the child, the natural family, and the potential adoptive families, to avoid conflict of interest. This would mean more balanced informed consent and counseling regarding life-long issues of adoption, including attachment issues.
Finally, the Child Welfare League of America strongly suggests laws which restore the unconditional right to all adult adoptees to their original birth certificate. Six U.S. states (including KS, ME, NH, AL) have passed such laws. Both the American Adoption Congress and the Evan B. Donaldson Adoption Institute provide the most up-to-date information regarding ethical adoption reform across our country.

Eringobrah62, (11/24/2009 9:25:35 PM)

Having raised a child from the foster/adopt division of DHS I can honestly say that they do not, I repeat, do not divulge all information. They are taken away for neglect, abuse, or early childhood trauma reason only to be victimized again by the agency. Read the report recently released by the group suing DHS for their foster care program.

You are very niave, as was I, on how the system works.

Regarding the person who posted about getting them the best care possible, please enlighten as to where you would send them? There is only one facility in Oklahoma that treats these kids and it has only been open for a year and a half and is not having any success with the kids. In fact they are making them sicker.

The Medicaide coverage that usually transfers after adoption will not pay for services from successful programs out of state. By the time the parents are aware of the mental health issues of the children, the families are often bankrupt from chasing after services that are not there or work.

These parents are often diagnosed with PTSD from being under constant attack from these children. If you think these children cannot harm an adult just because of their age, I invite you to have a foster child in your home. After you have lived with a child with an attachment issue for 6 months, I invite you to open up a dialogue about your experiences.

FUTURE WORLD, Tulsa (11/24/2009 9:46:00 PM)

I had a quick one sentence comment I was going to give concerning this story. And it blunt and direct to adoptive parents. But after reading all the comments, I can honestly say, I don't know what to say.

The plight of these children and adoptive parents needs to be further explored, and it needs to happen in a public forum.

Captain BlackBeaver, Bat-Poop Crazy Island (11/24/2009 10:12:30 PM)

That will solve the problem...just support abortion and the morning after pill! (irrational logic)

Elusive, Owasso (11/24/2009 11:28:10 PM)

I am glad they are looking into this and hopefully give these adoptive parents the help they need.

FUTURE WORLD, Tulsa (11/24/2009 11:35:32 PM)

I don't think they need any help. They need to be more through in their screening of prospective parents. They need to assess their capabilities for the worst case scenario. And if they can't meet that burden then maybe they are not suitable for a state adoption and need to look to private adoption agencies for a child. After all, when you adopt through DHS, you kin of know what your getting yourself into.

To adopt through a private agency is going to cost a lot of money and time. Where as a DHS adoption is relatively cheap. But the problems are going to be more challenging.

FUTURE WORLD, Tulsa (11/24/2009 11:39:10 PM)

I meant to say "I don't think they should get much more help" I know it sounds harsh. But I say that for the reasons I expressed above. many went to DHS looking for a cheap adoption. And didn't haev the resources in teh first place to deal with issues a reasonable parent would expect from a DHS adoption. They simply were shopping for the cheaptest way to adopt. And not considering the challenges they might face in adopting a child from te state.

Elusive, Owasso (11/24/2009 11:42:22 PM)

As posters stated above that have been through it FW, DHS are not giving them all the information background on these kids. I have heard others tell me this as well. It's not their fault they were not informed or perhaps naive about DHS.

FUTURE WORLD, Tulsa (11/24/2009 11:49:58 PM)

And that's precisely why I suggest DHS is not stringent enough in screening adoptive parents. As teh article reports. "we give them all we know" But all DHS knows may not be the whole truth or story about a child. They only know what they are given by the biological parents. And many don't cooperate. So, many of these parents have no idea what they are getting into. All they know is that a private adoption will cost between 10,000 to as much as 50,000 dollars. So if you don't have that kind of money where do you go? Of course DHS. And if a adoptive parent doesn't have that kind of money how can they ever hope to meet the needs of those kids? They can't. And so now they want a law to have the state pay for the care of a child they adopted and cannot afford. DHS needs to look to defining more stringent income standards for prospective parents. Not passing laws to pay their way.

born okay the 1st time, tulsa (11/25/2009 11:00:18 AM)

As for where Id go. Wherever it took. Whatever it took. Other states, other countries even, if need be, to help my child.
For those of you saying abortion & mornign after pills are the answer. You actually think those that are irresponsible enough to lose their kids to the foster care system are responsible enough to take a pill, get an abortion or get the morning after pill?
Wheres the welfare check in that?

kdOklahoma, (11/25/2009 1:43:48 PM)

We adopted, we know of many other parents that have adopted. Out of the 16 children we know that have been adopted (some at birth and some older children) there is only 1 child that doesn't have problems. Many of the children have RAD, fetal alcohol, severe ADHD, some are autistic and there are a lot of behavioral problems. Making the choice to adopt sounds wonderful, but living with the outcome can be devastating to the whole family. Within the last year, Oklahoma lost a wonderful adoptive mom, whose 12 year old high functioning autistic son, shot and killed her. There is NO place to turn for help in Oklahoma, and what help is available is outside of Oklahoma is way beyond the financial means of most parents.

kdOklahoma, (11/25/2009 1:55:41 PM)

"Born okay the 1st time" wrote... Wherever it took. Whatever it took. Other states, other countries even, if need be, to help my child.

It is obvious that you have not dealt with a child that is violent and has severe mental problems. Many children with mental problems can not be FIXED, (as you make it sound), no matter how much money, time, or effort you apply to the child's problem. You will never be able to understand what our families are going through unless you walk in our shoes, and I pray that you never have to.