T.B'Ville, Bruins (11/22/2009 5:58:36 AM)

What? She is using her husbands death as an excuse to screw a bipolar patient! Geez.

gfy, Tulsa (11/22/2009 7:57:10 AM)

We need tort reform on medical malpractice cases so we don't put more stress on these poor doctors. Reform would also keep these doctors in state because as we all know they are leaving Oklahoma in droves. The trial lawyers are the real cause of these doctors stress, the pain they have to endure and putting these poor professionals in the poor house.

jubilo1, Hugo (11/22/2009 8:23:00 AM)

"Of those, nearly 190 are still active medical professionals whose disciplinary background remains largely hidden from patients who don't know how or where to look for the information."

Anyone notice the writer does NOT tell us how or where to look for the information so we can check out our own doctor. Why keep the secret Kim?

fld11, (11/22/2009 8:46:08 AM)

Most of these clowns prescribe only a very few medications. This is usually based on which drug reps give them the best "deals" and perks. It has nothing to do with the best medication for the illness. We all know that these guys make way too much money for the jobs they do. The way to drive down costs is to stay away from the doctor's office unless it's a life threatenting condition. Works in other countries just fine.

Loophole, (11/22/2009 8:58:09 AM)

gfy, your prescription needs a refill. . .

FUTURE WORLD, Tulsa (11/22/2009 9:27:26 AM)

And conservative are howling about the need for medical tort reform. Please give the average citizen a break.

gfy, Tulsa (11/22/2009 9:27:54 AM)

Loopy-You mean you don't agree with my assessment?

gfy, Tulsa (11/22/2009 9:30:19 AM)

Loopy-By the way, thanks, I'll call Dr. Beet's and get a refill.

Captain BlackBeaver, Bat-Poop Crazy Island (11/22/2009 10:16:46 AM)

Sometimes good people make poor decisions.

Jinxed, CA (11/22/2009 10:30:26 AM)

He prescribed eye drops and allergy medications, antifungals, antibiotics and asthma medication. He even proscribed Zofran — an anti-nausea drug that is typically "given to patients on chemotherapy and radiation, which should not be given to any child under the age of 4," according to documents obtained from the Oklahoma Board of Medical Licensure and Supervision.

"I didn't know what I didn't know," Beets told the Tulsa World about the matter. "Looking back now, yes, I know better. But, then, I didn't have the training and knowledge base I needed to be a doctor."

Beets' disciplinary record is one of the longest in the board's database.

------------------------------

This paragraph is all you need to read in this article - I would prescribe "a grain of salt" if reading the rest of it. All I am hearing is excuses excuses excuses and far too lenient as to discipline.

Are you kidding me? His disciplinary record is the longest in Oklahoma? And still practicing? Well, not surprising I guess...

He says "I didn't know what I didn't know".... Well DUH???? Oh, now that's a GREAT excuse eh? Even after giving a tiny 2 month old baby harsh and unecessary medicine like Zofran reserved for CANCER patients?

Oh my god. Scary.

This article also doesn't address the doctors who say.....travel from Arizona to do business in OK because they were disciplined in AZ and escaped that med board. Remember the freak from out of State who was arrested for I think it was molesting his step daughter not too long ago? All kinds of discipline records and where did he end up? Oklahoma.

Doctors policing doctors? Yeah right. That works.

gfy, Tulsa (11/22/2009 10:43:40 AM)

So Cappin Beav, when a good doctor attaches a vein to an artery and the patient is paralyzed from the waste down, the patient should just tell himself "good people make poor decisions" and roll on his way. Forget about the hundreds of thousands of medical bills not mention the millions of dollars of medical bills he will incur over the rest of his life. Oh and mental pain and suffering, forget about it, after all the doctors are "good people". Yea, that works. Unless, of course, it is you or your child. Just ask our US Rep. Sullivan.

Captain BlackBeaver, Bat-Poop Crazy Island (11/22/2009 10:45:35 AM)

Like I said...sometimes good people make poor decisions!

confederateU, (11/22/2009 10:55:06 AM)

It appears judging by the tw records that the beets guy was disciplined for prescribing unecessary meds more than once - even as he was still on discipline from the other infractions? Sure doesn't give me a lot of faith in the medical review board decisions.

And about the shrink - her husband dies of cancer in 2008, and she's having an affair with a male patient in 2009. hmmmmmm...... and her license is only suspended for one month after breaking the ultimate ethical no no for pyschiatrists?

Peepleus, (11/22/2009 11:01:49 AM)

Thanks TW for the article. I've always contended that doctors are no better then mechanics, and shouldn't be revered. This article demonstrates such.

Stratolifter, (11/22/2009 11:02:59 AM)

Question: can a doctor prescribe anti depressants even though a patient has not been diagnosed as depressed by a psychologist?

Stratolifter, (11/22/2009 11:07:15 AM)

I think the article gives the impression that the medical review boards are doing a great job based on the high number of disciplines. Well, define discipline. The better question is: Is the discipline imposed sufficient to protect the general public from bad doctors?

Our personal experience with the medical board after filing our complaint was disbelief that a doctor could get away with what that doctor was getting away with.

Kim Archer, medical writer, (11/22/2009 11:15:29 AM)

Jubilo1, you will find a separate sidebar on how to search the state's database for information on your own doctor or prospective physician by clicking View All News.

DirtyWhiteHouse, (11/22/2009 11:28:32 AM)

captain blackbeaver: Sometimes good people make bad decisions that could kill in an instant. You only have one life; how many chances do you want to give someone who is in charge of it?

out of tulsa, (11/22/2009 12:17:31 PM)

Is it true that a doctor only needs one year of residency in Oklahoma before he can legally practice in this state? Are you kidding me? Is this standard in all 50 states? What you are saying is, a young man or woman who graduates from med school at the age of 26, can do a year of residency in any field - ie psychiatry - and, then practice as a doctor?????????? Truly - don't other states require more years of residency and preferably in their field of practice? Who ever is researching this story for the TW - can you let us know????

Jinxed, CA (11/22/2009 12:35:32 PM)

so, out of about 6000 complaints over the past 10 years, they have only had 45 revoked licenses. 17 licenses were reinstated so does that mean about 28 revoked for good in a 10 year period? That's all?

whitehawk, Tulsa (11/22/2009 1:14:49 PM)

Need to keep in mind that many of these guys and gals just move to other states and in many cases are welcome to start up again to do MAYBE the same.

DeltaDon, Geneva, Switz & Tulsa (11/22/2009 2:45:14 PM)

Hey Tulsa World, The "Search TW database for disciplined Docs" noted in this story, is only for MD's. How do we check up on DO"s?

Jinxed, CA (11/22/2009 3:00:58 PM)

lyle kelsey? what EVER!

Carl, Henryetta (11/22/2009 3:35:33 PM)

Allow me to make a few points from THIS side of the stethescope.

1. fld has no concept of reality in terms of doctors' prescribing habits. We do NOT prescribe whatever the rep presents. And we don't get "deals and perks" unless you're referring to a few crummy pens that skip the next day or some note pads. I was a drug rep for two years before med school - and it just doesn't happen anything like you imagine it does.

2. You can check us DOs out on the web, too. The TW is supposedly providing the links - since they make it impossible for us to post links. It's okay - anyone with a modicum of computer savvy can find it out - it's all public info. read especially the minutes of the Medical Boards meetings - it'll shed some light. Remember this please, though: DISCIPLINARY action and MALPRACTICE lawsuits are two ENTIRELY different things, although one may certainly influence the other.

3. Tort reform......are there bad doctors? You bet. Are there bad doctors that get sued and LOSe malpractice suits? You bet. Are there bad doctors that never get sued for whatever reason? Yup. Are there good doctors who make honest mistakes - or like me NO MISTAKES at all and get raked over the proverbial coals for a year or two of endless depositions, motions, countermotions, court appearances????? Yes, indeed. In this country, it is VERY easy to sue anyone for anything. If you find a greedy, unethical lawyer (real tough), you can sue a doctor if you don't like their attitude. Trust me, I'm a doctor and I've been there. Never a penny given on my behalf to anyone - ever - because I was proven to not have done the things they claimed. Yet every day - i and all of my colleagues across the country order test after test - to rule out the SLIGHTEST possibility that we might miss something. There simply HAS to be SOME degree of honest reform. The costs - notwithstanding whatever the lawyers' lobby might have you believe - are enormous.

4. Good - and bad - people make mistakes. Sometimes they're important - sometimes, most times - in fact - they're not. Many times malpractice suits are brought over BAD OUTCOMES. Bad outcomes can be totally unforseen or unpredictable. Most of the time - it doesn't matter to someone who been injured in some way - SOMEBODY has to pay. Who else but the doctor? ANd the hospital...and the nurse...and the parent company of the hospital...and the pharmaceutical or medical device manufacturer...and the housekeeper......and, of course, demanding at least ONE medical opinion before a suit can be filed....OH NO, that would "limit access" to the legal system.

5. Peepless - maybe so, maybe not so. Ever hear anyone scream "is there a mechanic in the house?"

6. Stratolifter - almost without exception any doctor can presribe ANY medicine. A good Family Practice or Internal Medicine specialist can prescribe antidepressants, antipsychotics, etc to the appropriate patient. It all depends on their relative degree of knowledge and personal comfort as to whether they prescribe drugs. it is largely a self-regulated area of medical practice. As an ER doc, for example, I would NEVER prescribe a chemotherapeutic med or hormones to an ER patient. An Internist - generally wouldn't be presribing a baby's antiobiotic, either - althoug he or she might prescribe the same medicine to an adult and so on. Also in terms of a complaint not being acted upon....well, I can't dispute that, but don't confine it to doctors. Try complaining about a lawyer and see how seriously you get taken by the Bar Association. Try complaining about a certain rogue OHP trooper to the OHP or the Governor and see what happens.

Carl, Henryetta (11/22/2009 3:35:48 PM)

7. out of tulsa - Yes, it's true. The last I checked - only NH and NC required at least TWO years of post-medical school (residency) training before "hanging a shingle". MOST modern doctors have completed a residency - usually minimum of three years after med school. After that, they can become Board Certified in their particular specialty. You can only claim to be a "cardiologist" for instance - if you have at least completed a residency or better become Baorded in that area.
Personally, I am or was Board Certified in the are of Family Medicine, BUT I have practiced as an Emergency Medicine specialist for most of my 22 years in practice - since there is a great deal of overlap between those two. Incidientaly, those two (FP and EM) are the NEWEST of the specialty Boards - as "boarding" in various specialties is a relatively NEW thing. Then there are the "grandfathers" who just happened to have been doing - for example - nephrology - for so long that they get to be boarded just because they struck out on that area of medicine before it became "official", etc - it's quite a complicated system really. It DOES allow, however, some bozo that just barely squeaked by to open up a practice with LITTLE actual "apprentice" training. The medical consumer should ALWAYS interview a prospective new doctor and don't be afraid to ASK QUESTIONS.
Remember - the rules that govern all this are official LAWS - if you disagree - contact your local State legislators.

8. It is NOT just as easy as moving. if the State Board of Medine or of Osteopathic Medicine is doing their jobs - they carefully research a doctor's past. All they would have to do is go to the State website to read all about Dr. Beets' past discipline record.

gfy, Tulsa (11/22/2009 4:05:32 PM)

Hey Dr. Carl you would be a little more convincing if you knew how to spell "stethescope"(sic). But why should doctors sweat the small stuff like maybe human anatomy.

Carl, Henryetta (11/22/2009 4:19:38 PM)

So, in other words, you feel doubtful of my posting in terms of factualness or honesty or integrity because of a misspelling or a few typos?

Really?

BTW - the parentheses is redundant to the use of sic.

Carl, Henryetta (11/22/2009 4:23:39 PM)

gfy - I get it now - your a lawyer! Shoot me over a few of your legal briefs and I'll check them out for spelling and grammar, then I'll issue an online report of your ability to convince people!

How about it bunny wabbit?

Carl, Henryetta (11/22/2009 4:24:54 PM)

But why should lawyers sweat the small stuff, like proper grammatic expression and linguistic accuracy?

whitehawk, Tulsa (11/22/2009 4:52:41 PM)

Carl
I'm not at a pay grade to comment on your post..but I can not go along with your #8.

If you check long and hard you WILL find reporting from state to state have been lacking.

You will find these doctors in Small Medical Units,VA Medical Units and out of the way places.

out of tulsa, (11/22/2009 5:04:01 PM)

Thanks for the answer, Carl.

Bullhead, Tenkiller (11/22/2009 5:17:18 PM)

whitehawk, you forgot Indian Health Service on that list. =-P

Carl, it's not your fault you don't have spellcheck on your computer like gfy does. As long as you spell my medications right on my Rx, and Dx, I have no problem with your spelling. I appreciate your knowledge and telling us what you know. It helps when most of us are guessing in our postings.

zzx375, BA (11/22/2009 5:23:04 PM)

Well this will surely change with gubmit medical care.

Stratolifter, (11/22/2009 5:32:43 PM)

doctor's must abide by a certain higher code of ethics because their profession involves the treatment of humans. a lawyer may tick you off and you can sue him or her for malpractice but his errors aren't likely to cause you being permanently injured or dead.

when the hippocratic oath is violated in any way shape or form even once - they should be removed from the profession for good. the hippocratic oath is unlike any oath an entity takes in that doctors are held to a high ethical standard due to their potential impact on human life.

part of the oath is a promise not to overtreat. by your own admission, they are doing just that due to some perceived "fear" of getting sued. that's a sorry excuse for a 'what if'.

doctors are doctoring patients to death, if not being outright irresponsible in their treatment. that's murder. and it's legally sanctioned murder when those in charge of regulating and discipline such as med boards/fellow doctors, and judges don't impose proper discipline, penalty and/or punishment sufficient to fit the "crime".

tiara, (11/22/2009 6:05:55 PM)

I don't know... we should check out the people who we choose as doctors, but as they say, they are people too. Gone are the days when they are gods and we don't question them....we should all question everything they do and write down everything. Just like everything else, we have to be on top of it. We have to write everything down and make sure our loved ones are getting the best care possible. And to be clear, every one of us could be criticized for how we do our jobs. Geez, just calm down everybody! I'm not perfect and neither is anybody else.....

Carl, Henryetta (11/22/2009 6:08:37 PM)

stratolifter - don't misunderstand...I said I order tests that are not STRICTLY, ABSOLUTELY necessary to make a diagnosis.....but sometimes to rule out the SLIGHTEST possibility that you might have schistosomiasis...for example. I don't believe that I EVER (intentionally, at least) "overtreat". There is a difference between testing and treating. Overtesting IS driven by the "fear of getting sued" especially getting sued for no good reason. I've yet to see an accurate estimate as to the "hidden costs" of that when anyone talks about tort reform.

I hate to sound elementary - but you must draw a distinction between a doctor or other professional - lawyers included - who commits a CRIME or commits a TORT.

Murder - criminal act tried in criminal court

Malpractice - tort tried in civil court

Criminals are criminals and are dealt with as such - no matter what walk of life.

tiara, (11/22/2009 6:08:55 PM)

oh and how dare the tw attack these doctors who are just normal human beings who made mistakes... im sure they are good doctors but they have experienced horrible times in their lives

tiara, (11/22/2009 6:10:15 PM)

and think about if U were exposed for the things U did... huh? that would stink!

Carl, Henryetta (11/22/2009 6:20:44 PM)

You also go on to say: "when the hippocratic oath is violated in any way shape or form even once - they should be removed from the profession for good."

Do you REALLY mean that, sincerely? Do you really think it would be morally or ethically right to remove a doctor from the profession of medicine for good if he/she made an honest, perhaps unforseeable MISTAKE and they violated the "do no harm" part of the oath?

Let's say a doctor prescribed a medicine to a patient and that patient had a serious and maybe even fatal KNOWN reaction from it? The doctor "did harm" by prescribing a proper medicine because the patient suffered or died. Is he/she wrong and barred from medicine? What if they had no way of knowing - maybe the patient was unconscious and couldn't speak and had no ID.....would you still want that?

If a doctor murders someone - sure, I agree 100%. Commits GROSSLY NEGLIGENT acts that cause great harm or death? We agree on that, also. In current news - do you suppose there's much chance of that mentally, criminally ill Nichols Hills doc getting his license ever again? I doubt it seriously. Should Dr. Beets have gotten HIS license back? Probably. Sounds like he's a 'good doc" these days - I'm happy for him. His story is out there for all to see. I'm always in favor of someone who is lacking getting further education to bring them up to par.

Hey, remember everybody - we're NOT the gods that you would WANT US TO BE. Until they come up with some flawless robotic doc - you'll have to settle for what you have or don't come to us - it's that simple.

There's PLENTY of good and even great docs out there. Like anything else in life - no matter how "vital" you think we are - there's some bad apples. Ask questions, make (vallid) complaints and let the system work......remember, largely it's the LEGAL system that solves all of this. Write your legislators if you don't like something.

TORT REFORM IS NEEDED.

Carl, Henryetta (11/22/2009 6:21:51 PM)

oops - I meant to spell valid correctly. Thanks for making me all crazy about my spelling now, gfy!

gfy, Tulsa (11/22/2009 7:02:23 PM)

Carl, the only cases I file, these days, are those that a first grader could underdstand. The reason is that your insurance provider, PLICO, will spend so much money on the more complicated cases knowing that the juries in Oklahoma have such a God Complex for doctors that they will never find against the wrongdoer doctor.
Another thing that you conveniently leave out is that you don't pay on a verdict or settlement. It is all paid for by your med/mal insurance and please don't give me the excessive-premium-cost-b$ because although the amount may seem high but the costs are miniscule compared to the monies doctors make.
Lastly, if you would please, share with us JUST ONE case where a doctor lost an exorbitant amount of money in a medical malpractice case where it was unjustified. JUST ONE is all I ask.

gfy, Tulsa (11/22/2009 7:41:13 PM)

Hey Carl, if you need help finding cases go to morelaw. They have every case listed that either went to trial or was settled. Find one of those "jackpot justice" cases that evidences a need for tort reform. Bet you can't find one!

Nunya, (11/22/2009 7:48:38 PM)

We recently had a big fight with a doctor over the issue of overtreatment of our grand parent. He gave us the same tired excuse of the fear of being sued.

At some point, a doctor has to have enough confidence to treat their patients without resorting to that lame excuse or we are all doomed.

Because our grandparent was old and frail, the overtreatment was destroying them. Among many other things that doctor wanted to perform surgery for a small patch of stomach cancer, Prescribed all kinds of medication and even wanted to do chemo. We went to a second opinion doctor (female) who told us that's not necessary to put them through the trauma at such an old age and that such cancers are very slow growing if at all. It is now almost two years later and doing better than last year. a new scan showed the cancerous spot has not even changed in size. And after weening off all that crapola that the other doctor prescribed, energy has increased! The new doctor told us about an internet site called theangrypatient dot com. It's a patient diary that's been posted online. It's pretty disgusting but sure gives food for thought on how bad things can get and the hidden factors behind medical coverups and overtreating.

gfy, Tulsa (11/22/2009 8:41:54 PM)

Carl, Nunya reminded me of some questions I had for you. Do you get paid for that overtreatment you do? Do you, like most Doctors in town, own a piece of MRI or other diagnostic business you send people to? How about ownership interests in any physical therapy businesses ysiviedou prescribe for your patients? How about ownership interest in surgical hospitals or urgent care businesses? Do you accept referral fees? I guess am interested if your diversified like every other doctor in town?

Carl, Henryetta (11/22/2009 9:06:14 PM)

gfy - I am an hour wage earner. except I get paid actually by the hour.....unlike lawyers who can bill for "hours" they actually allegedly spend on a case. I work 12 hours a day - five days a week.

"my insurance" isn't through PLICO smarty pants - it's private med mal insurance through my healthcare system. I make the same, exact amount whether I see one patient or a hundred. I get paid exactly the same if I order one test or a million tests......the costs ultimately get passed along to everybody - just like ANY business.

I own no interest/ownership or other finacial involvement with any medical business in any way, shape or form. I am, along with my wife - owner operator of a completely unrelated business, though. Any problem with that?

Being an ER doctor, I don't get "referral fees" - whatever those are. Are doctors supposed to get those?

You are correct when you say I don't pay a penny in case of a settlement or judgement. Of course, never having lost at a settlement and never even having to get to the trial phase of a med mal case - I wouldn't have first hand experience at that.

However, what YOU conveniently leave out is the emotional disturbance that comes with an UNJUST med mal case. The hours of wating, depositions, waiting, motions, waiting - then finally the dismissal.....OH, the mental anguish, pain and suffering and loss of consortium that you have to go through.

You know about all those emotional damages, right? Lawyers always make a HUGE deal out of them, don't they.

Carl, Henryetta (11/22/2009 9:08:34 PM)

Nunya - so, I guess you managed to find the one good doctor in the State? Good for you.

I hate bad doctors just like everybody else does.

Carl, Henryetta (11/22/2009 9:12:00 PM)

gfy - it IS reassuring to learn, though, that you can write at a first grade level!

gfy, Tulsa (11/22/2009 9:42:50 PM)

Carl--I can spell stethoscope too and I don't have one around my neck everyday. You got a "jackpot justice" case that evidences a need for tort reform yet? Bet you don't, cause they don't exist here.

gfy, Tulsa (11/22/2009 9:50:12 PM)

Oh and we have to answer every bar complaint before the Tulsa Bar Association and the Oklahoma Bar Association no matter how frivolous. We also get sued as much as doctors for legal malpractice. They difference is lawyers belly up to the bar(pardon the pun)and accept responsibility if we commit a tortious act unlike you docs.

T.B'Ville, Bruins (11/23/2009 5:49:28 AM)

This is good.

Carl, Henryetta (11/23/2009 8:08:53 AM)

gfy - never having committed a tortious act - I wouldn't know.

Why no comments about my answers to the accusatory questions that you asked me?

Once again - for the hard of hearing - there is a lot more to the total cost of litigation beyond the judgement. There is a SUBSTANTIAL "hidden cost" in the form of DEFENSIVE medicine. You seem to repeatedly ignore that aspect and just focus in on the final judgement. Not trying to minimize or misdirect, are you? That's what lawyers do - smoke and mirrors.
Oh, and in terms of your superior spelling and grammar skills are concerned:

"...They difference is lawyers belly up to the bar(pardon the pun)..."
"They" difference?

Carl, Henryetta (11/23/2009 8:11:06 AM)

Oh, yes - and one more thing - care to share with us what "gfy" stands for. I have a pretty good idea.

gfy, Tulsa (11/23/2009 12:24:23 PM)

It means goofy. Now you take for whatever meaning you want.
Keep answering questions with questions. Your silence speaks volumes!

gfy, Tulsa (11/23/2009 12:29:52 PM)

Carl-"Medical suit: rare outcome" Read it da!

gfy, Tulsa (11/23/2009 12:30:26 PM)

Oh its in todays TW.

oldrustytulsa, Tulsa (11/23/2009 4:33:43 PM)

I use a lot of animal medicine, it works for me and cost a lot less.Not much difference twix a Vet and Doctor and the bedside manner is sure as heck much nicer.

Carl, Henryetta (11/23/2009 5:49:17 PM)

goofy - PERFECT screen name for a lawyer!! Great choice!

Speaking of silence - why no comments to the interrogatories that you asked? Oh, I know....isn't that one of the things they teach in law school? Never ask a question you don't already know the answer to.

You just made some ASSumptions about me, didn't you?

It's alright, you can admit it. Your silence speaks volumes, Goofy.

Carl, Henryetta (11/23/2009 5:51:29 PM)

"Oh its in todays TW."

Did you mean to write: "Oh, it's in today's TW."?

Since we're focusing on grammar, that is.

gfy, Tulsa (11/23/2009 9:49:48 PM)

Yes I did wrongfully assume you were a doctor when you are not. You didn't correct me when I made my assumption so that makes you a liar. Remember, acts of omission are just as untruthful as acts of commission. By doing so your arguments are not relevant to me anymore. Goodnight nurse!

Carl, Henryetta (11/24/2009 10:30:32 AM)

And now you are the liar, Goofy when you state I am not a doctor. The ASSumptions that you made all revolved around some suspected nefarious activity on my part.

Not only are you a liar - evidently - but a poor researcher. Pity the poor fool who retains YOU for a case.

Carl, Henryetta (11/24/2009 10:32:38 AM)

And I guess you never really understood the part about never asking a question that you didn't already know the answer to....shame, shame.

Tell me you are just a paper pushing lawyer and not one that actually goes into court to represent clients - please!

Carl, Henryetta (11/24/2009 1:59:22 PM)

Quit trying to distract (another common lawyer trick) - what is your response to the answers I gave to your interrogatories?

Claiming I'm not a doctor was stupid...how about a simple apology? It's okay, no one will think less of you.

Elusive, Owasso (11/30/2009 12:56:52 AM)

Slap them on the wrist and send them back to work it seems.