Ron Ballew, Lawton (10/20/2009 10:23:25 PM)

Performance pay plans do not work. The Federal Government created a performance pay plan known as NSPS that it is now abandoning because it is not fair, it rewards supervisor pets instead of good performance, it is not transparent, and it is rife with fraud, waste, and abuse.

Mar, Tulsa (10/20/2009 10:51:47 PM)

Works in the private sector. Works for some state agencies in order states.

Mar, Tulsa (10/20/2009 10:54:49 PM)

Teachers should be rewarded with merit raises/pay. The way it is now there are a lot of teachers that shouldn't be teaching. It's good to get rid of the "dead wood". Our children deserve the best.

FUTURE WORLD, Tulsa (10/20/2009 10:56:05 PM)

Mar, sounds like a preformed letter. Give me some examples.

olddude, tulsa (10/21/2009 6:05:01 AM)

I though 2 weeks ago there were going to be budget cuts and schools were strapped for money,and now were talking about raises,where is the money coming from?

RoyRogers, Tulsa (10/21/2009 7:35:08 AM)

Let's compare just two schools, Edison & Memorial...OK? Just two!
Unlike Edison, Memorial Counselors, Attendance Office and (especially) Teachers are responsible for trying to reach/teach kids from MUCH lower-inclomed families...kids who:
1. Want no responsibility
2. Respect NO ONE (know what I mean by 'no one'?)
3. Want nothing to do with paper, pencils, books
learning, future, etc., etc.

No, I'm not saying it's the entire student body, by any means...but enough to let you know, that it's Ludacris to factor-in Teacher Raises/Pay based on "results".
Goes to show, what I've said over and over again:
The people over at the Service Center gradually
morph into a "Bubble", and the only way-out...is to get them BACK into actually teaching...if only for a while.

RoyRogers, Tulsa (10/21/2009 7:39:10 AM)

Want to actually see for yourself? OK...call the Sub Office at TPS and sign-up for some duty.
This is my 11th year.

retired x2, Canadian (10/21/2009 8:18:14 AM)

Bench mark at the beginning of the year, achievement test at the end of the year, nuff said.

hsfballfan, (10/21/2009 11:11:09 AM)

Retired, sounds easy enough but very naive to think that would actually work. Don't you think you would take advantage of the situation and influence kids to do as poorly as possible on the first test? Or, what motivation does Johnny have to do his best on the end of the year test? Yet, your raise is dependent on him getting a good nights rest the night before and eating a good breakfast the morning of. Very naive to think that system would be extremely flawed.

hsfballfan, (10/21/2009 11:12:48 AM)

Sorry meant to say "don't you think some teachers would take advantage of the situation"

DBJohn, Tulsa (10/21/2009 11:41:06 AM)

hsfballfan, Almost all teachers are dedicated to their profession, so I find that for there attempts on playing the system could be really few and far between.

Motivating the student's education through out the year is part of the teacher job. The burden of the kids education is not solely the teachers responsibility. It is also the parents. I think that a big problem in our education system is the lack of the parental support.

The teachers incentive pay is overdue.

hsfballfan, (10/21/2009 12:08:53 PM)

John, you said yourself that it is also the parents responsibility to motivate the kids. Why don't you attend a parent-teacher night at one of the TPS high schools and tell me how many parents of show up. And yet a teachers raise is going to depend on them motivating their kid?

Assuming all or most teachers are dedicated to their profession and wouldn't try and cheat the system is ridiculous. We're talking about money here. Have you ever been in a teacher's meeting when the subject of money comes up? Do you think a teacher would be fine with their principal telling them that their students didn't perform high enough so they get no raise the following year? Will they be content knowing they did the best they could? And the reason they get no raise is because a few students who don't like their teacher bomb their test just to sabotage the teacher. Or am I to suppose that the teacher and parents will motivate the students to not do that?

What the ?, OK (10/21/2009 2:09:08 PM)

RoyRogers is right on!!!!

Get out of my bidness!, The Republic of the United States of America (10/21/2009 4:01:00 PM)

How about performance pay for schools? Administrators on down will quickly feel the effects of their performance with a voucher system. // The present system is a failure thanks to loss of local control to federal/state mandates, court interference, and the teachers' unions. People will send their kids where they will learn if given the opportunity. Schools that don't teach will close.

DBJohn, Tulsa (10/21/2009 4:27:02 PM)

hsfballfan, Let me clarify, the teacher need to motivate their students educational process. A good teacher will do that.

I know what your saying about the parent teacher conferences. Some parents could care less about their child education, some feel it's a baby sitting service or they they finally get a break from their kids. Parents need to be supportive and of the children's education.

You will see some results with a good educator, however and unfortunately you will see better results with parental involvement. Teacher don't have much control over what the parents do and in fact anymore their hands are tied, which is really sad to say. They should not be penalized for the something they don't have control over.

007, Tulsa (10/21/2009 6:10:34 PM)

Public employees should not be allowed to have unions anyway. Since we have them they should be held accountable to the public.

Okieandjew, Unknown (10/21/2009 6:12:00 PM)

I have yet to see anyone explain how a merit system would work. Would someone please do that?

marine2.0, (10/21/2009 7:36:10 PM)

"I think we will find the vast majority are doing a good job and should come into the performance pay corral at varying levels," Ballard said.

Then why are the schools failing?

Is merit based pay for teachers similar to working for salary plus commision? Is this really the road we want to go down?

52favoriteteacher, ex--Broken Arrow Tiger (10/21/2009 9:21:12 PM)

The best teachers do motivate the kids. The best teachers do raise test scores of the kids that are capable. The best teachers also need the parents to help do their part at home. Teaching your kids is a wonderful way to spend my day.
Give a man a fish and feed him one day, teach a man to fish and he feeds himself for a lifetime.

Msdash00, Rural (10/21/2009 10:27:36 PM)

I have balloon issues with this one.
First of all, Tulsa Public School is looking at year 2011 for implementation.
Public Education curriculum is mandated by legislators, not guided by education professionals. The benchmark concept has been and is used by many districts already, to measure student baselines and improvement in knowledge.
Would I want my yearly pay based on a test measuring the improved knowledge of 140 different and diverse students?
Drifting on…if each child and their parents are not on board, and the media shows up at my classroom door; I am not sure if I could guarantee a show!

TeaTimer, Tulsa Area (10/21/2009 10:44:59 PM)

My son and I spend many hours preparing things to encourage students to study over the summer break.

He found out most of the parents hardly looked at the items. The developmentally delayed children who were reading quite well at summer break could hardly read at the beginning of the new school year. Why parents don't care about the education of their children concerns me.
Teachers can only do so much at school. Parents need to follow up at home.

Okieandjew, Unknown (10/21/2009 10:52:10 PM)

If I teach at Booker T or at another high-performing school, I suspect my kids will do well on achievement tests. Sort of like the adage that anyone could have coached Michael Jordan and all those All-Stars to the NBA title. These kids have a lot of built-in advantages, and their test scores may or may not have been due to their teachers. Or their teachers at Booker T. Maybe credit the teachers at the elementary or middle school level. What if I taught at one of the lower-performing schools. In other words, where does the responsibility lie within the schools? The merit pay idea is a knee-jerk reaction to a bigger problem.

Msdash00, Rural (10/21/2009 11:22:17 PM)

Schools are failing? Not in my district. What are the failures based on, Marine2.0?

If you rely on No Child Left Behind guidelines, where every child is tested with the same method of measurement and every test is placed in the ranking you might be surprised how difficult it might be for some districts with diverse populations to succeed.
This was a formula based on a hoax (Houston, Texas Miracle) and promoted as a plan to break down public education. Someone's "Waterloo."

You know the same public education that offers all children an education as a 'basic right,' not like our competition - China who select only prime students.

Come on, look at the real picture. Here's an example:
Every foreign student learning English and children with learning disabilities (children with brain processing difficulties) are tested along with up to 140 (for one subject)students.

It would take just a few students with an inability to function well on a written test measuring knowledge and POOF, that particular teacher’s overall score (on any subject) could be jeopardized.

You can not compare a manufactured product or business oriented and formulated process to a child's brain function and development along with their ability to convey information learned on one method of testing.

The Texas test farce (NCLB beginnings) proved this already.

Administrators have the tools to identify, record, and report to district school boards, educators who are not performing well and lack the skills to be effective teachers. District School Boards have district policies, legal counsel and state laws to remove ineffective teachers and it is the district's responsibility to do so.

If there is a failing it may be with administration, school boards and the disinterested district parents.
I call for 'No Parent Left Behind': Your gain merit if you attend parent teacher conferences, go to board meetings, and visit with your child’s principal. Otherwise you FAIL!

Tulsa and Oklahoma, Let’s test this theory!

Msdash00, Rural (10/21/2009 11:30:36 PM)

P.S. Our students do wonderful. Consider how difficult it might be to become engaged in 7 to 8 'educational class bytes of knowledge.' Each only 45 minutes long, where a bell interrupts you, shuffling in crowded halls disrupts you, and friends distract you.
Concentrate on that!

DBJohn, Tulsa (10/22/2009 12:02:23 AM)

52favoriteteacher, Very well said!!!!