Corvetteguy, Tulsa (11/24/2009 3:59:40 PM)

Our Tulsa firemen are the bravest, and most dedicated public servants in this entire city. Our policemen are a very very close, second.

Our firemen put their lives on the line day, after day, after day, to protect us.
They deserve the very best financial support this city can possibly afford. They should be well equipped, well trained, and be given 100% support.

What they don't need is an administration, that is more interested in top level promotions, than putting boots on the ground.

After December 10th, 2009, there will be a new Mayor in office. The new Mayor is going to have to find a way to back our firemen 100%, as well as our police officers,........ and possibly put frills on the back burner for a while.

........May the Lord protect our brave firemen, and police officers.

Webmeister, Tulsa (11/24/2009 6:25:17 PM)

Sorry, my bad. I thought this headline said:

"Tulsa Firefighters Teach Councilor Martinson Lesson (Don't Ask to Many Firefighter Budget Questions)."

Sub-headline: "Tulsa Firefighters Teach Councilor Westcott not to Ask Too Many TFD Budget Questions".

Corvetteguy, Tulsa (11/24/2009 8:24:29 PM)

Webmeister,

you are one very, very savy person. I just wish you had a little more insider information about Martinson's hidden agenda attacks....

........If you did, I don't think you would be going there.

Webmeister, Tulsa (11/24/2009 8:47:14 PM)

CorvetteGuy:

Compliment acknowledged.

I would ask, what City Councilor does NOT have an Agenda?

Whether a proxy for the police or fire unions, a proxy for the local development community, a proxy for the midtown ruling elite, or a reform-minded crusader, EVERY councilor has some kind of agenda.

I was initially sure that Martinsen was just another mouthpiece for Midtown. He originally won office in a winner-take all special election to replace Bought-Off City Councilor Sam Roop. Roop having been gulled with a $90K job to leave the Gang of Five Reform Coalition.

Martinsen never won re-election except by the slimmest of majorities.

Over time, I think he gained a greater appreciation of the inner workings of our local mis-government. He used his solid CPA and CEO business skills, started dissecting the city's spending priorities and budget, and sources of revenue and uses of funds.

His trend analysis of the combined city Tulsa PD and Tulsa FD consumption of 100% of the city's entire 2-cent sales tax earmarked for operating expenses, earned him the undying enmity of these two power labor unions.

And, it make him a marked man. They found a pliable hot-dog vendor with a colored past to run against him, then spent a lot of money and flooded the neighborhoods with firefighters wearing their union colors knocking on District doors.

Many of these firefighters could neither vote in his District, nor even lived in the city of Tulsa.

So, overall, I think the city council will be weaker without Martinsen than with him.

Corvetteguy, Tulsa (11/24/2009 9:04:23 PM)

WebM,

as usual you have very good points, backed aby reasonable facts, except your one comment about....... "two power labor unions".

The Police Officers, and firemen CANNOT strike, hence,.......no real power. How could you have power without the ability to strike?....or were you not aware of that.
They are unitied with the support of their individual members, but the bottom line is,...everything they get in benefits, or pay raises..... is solely at the discretion of the Mayor. The city council only approves the overall city budget.

I have followed local politics for 35 years. I have seen firemen go after individual local politicians twice. Twice in 35 to actually 37 or so years.

I agree about the hidden agendas with councilors. A perfect example of that was the last bank built at 15th and Utica.

But for a councilor to attack public safety workers because he just hates unions, is flat wrong. Their union, just like the FOP, has done nothing wrong ever, in my books. As a matter of fact, the FOP tried to save innocent Tulsa citizens from that horribly wrong, consent decree. Unfortunately, their cries fell on deaf ears. Ears that were trying to get north Tulsa votes.

Martinson hated firemen and Police officers. His mission was to get even. No matter what his rhetoric was,....he hated them.
Ask Martinson's close buddy, Westcot........ why he was only a Police officer for a short time. Do a little research as to exactly who was involved in his leaving the TPD.
A few truthful answers may change your perspective just a little..........

..........Thanks again for the reply.

Webmeister, Tulsa (11/24/2009 10:01:13 PM)

I think Mr. Martinsen and Mr. Westcott might disagree with you that because TFD and TPD cannot strike, that they have no power.

They have immense power for two principal reasons:

One, they can pass the hat to over 700 members each plus reliant family members to plow into the election of their favored candidates, or the defeat of one of their non-compliant adversaries.

And, critically important in a local election, secondly they have BOOTS ON THE GROUND.

Unless you're a self-funded millionaire, a city council candidate who has 25 volunteers to help in a campaign is doing really well.

A TPD or TFD union-backed candidate has at least 700 volunteers, spending their off-hours to knock on every voter door in the city council district.

Most city councilors and mayoral candidates have curled up in a small ball sucking their thumb rather than confront the militant TFD or TPD unions.

Why else did Mayor Savage give 800 policemen 800 taxpayer provided police cars to commute to their homes?

Why else did Mayor Bill LaFortune give 800 policemen a 25 mile commuting radius for their out-of-town commutes?

Why else than to attempt to buy their loyalty for re-election....

It's called Favors Trading.

And, the taxpayer ALWAYS foots the bill, right??

Elusive, Owasso (11/25/2009 2:40:29 AM)

Thank you Dayna for providing a valuable service to children all over. Sparkles and Tango certainly keep the childrens attention to learn about fire safety. I can only imagine how many lives will be saved.

Corvetteguy, Tulsa (11/25/2009 9:21:12 AM)

WebM,
as mentioned......this power union (TFD) has gone after local candidates maybe two times in 37 years. Two times,........ huh?

The reasons for giving TPD Officers are multifold. You have seen them before........the cars have been proven to last much longer when not passed from Officer to Officer (as discussed by transportation experts, not pundents), etc. ......Different funding source to purchase the cars, etc.
Made some sence to the Mayor to allow take-home cars, save two hours per shift and getting cops on the street quicker,.... and pass up a pay raise that would have come out of the general city sales tax revenue.

But your argument is that Mayor bill LaFortune was so scared of the powerful FOP union that he agreed to a 25 mile comute home radius, yet he slammed them on signing the consent decree, arguably the most contengous and hated issue ever thrown into the faces of Officers.......?

And Mayor Taylor was so scared of the FOP whe also agreed to car perks, yet she,...let's just say.........was present when officer "favorite" and fellow FOP member, Chief Been decided on his own to retire,.....and then she named Chief Palmer..... who the officers did NOT want as Police Chief........? Ever seen Kathy Taylor looking scared of anyone?

OK...............

Webmeister, Tulsa (11/25/2009 3:28:19 PM)

CorvetteGuy:

The local Tulsa FD and Tulsa PD unions are the proverbial 800 lb. gorillas in local politics. No politician want to invite a wrestling match with them.

Most aspiring or incumbent city politicians prefer to just steer clear of any controversy with the police, and just hand them over the amount of taxpayer gold they feel like extorting each contract renewal period.

Afterall, it's not like it is the politicians' money, right?

fld11, (11/28/2009 8:35:52 AM)

These so called unions need to be abolished, as other cities have done. It would be a great benefit for the taxpayers to not have to deal with these ignorant people who can't get or keep jobs on their own without their unions. Union busting is coming folks, and none too soon.