Video of fatal shooting by reserve deputy shown at Sheriff's Office press conference

142 comments:

• John Caire posted at 10:22 am on Tue, Apr 14, 2015.

  Posts: 3

  Good to see at least a few brothers in here attempting to close ranks and institute the blue wall of obfuscation.

  Having just learned of reserve deputies and their role in LE in OK, I find it quite ridiculous. Can't make it as a real cop? Sure, make some donations and we'll put you on the force, wink wink, nudge nudge. Is this a result of not being able to afford the real police staff needed or of a cushy way for regular citizens to play rambo for a modest entry fee? Either way, smacks of unethical and dubious reasoning on the part of the TCSO.

  And while an airweight SW revolver and taser weigh about the same, they look and FEEL completely different in the hand. The taser is NEON for crying out loud, NEON, just for the reason of distinguishing in times of duress. Plus the grip is totally different. Can't tell the difference, get off the streets.

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• C Leroy posted at 4:03 am on Tue, Apr 14, 2015.

  Posts: 1

  I am a former peace officer, deputy sheriff, from a very large department in Texas. My hometown is Muskogee, Oklahoma. It would take me writing a book, to point out all the mistakes made by peace officers and shooting of suspects through out our entire country in the past several month's! However we are talking here of the one in Tulsa. I think the reserve deputy did make a mistake, and did not intend to shoot the suspect. But he did, and the charges filed against him are warranted! The phenomenon slips and capture, and Bates is the victim of inadvertently fatally shooting the suspect. The dead suspect may be a criminal, but he is the victim, he is dead Bates is not! That is a Tulsa police Sgt., and a Tulsa co sheriffs capt. trying to do damage control! You will notice the first part of the video announced and then started is in the undercover car. Showing the suspect selling a 9mm handgun, it is also noted as he is a felon, this is misdirection as it is called by magicians. It is to get your attention looking somewhere else, while the magician is setting the illusion while he has your attention looking somewhere else! Thats what has been done here. They have you looking at this suspects record, the fact he is a felon in possession of a handgun, attempting to sell it, and then runs. These are facts, and I have no doubt he was committing a crime as stated, and needed to be arrested. However that has no bearing on what happened when the suspect was down on the ground! But the suspect was down on the ground, with officers subduing him, handcuffing him and effecting the arrest! So why does this reserve deputy, no matter what age need to even yell as stated, taser taser, for as stated. It says he did it to warn the two officers to back off of him so he could tase him. Why? He was already down, and thats what a taser is for, to put a suspect down so he can be subdued. That had already been done. According to the report, the reserve carried his taser on his vest, handgun in a waist holster. Sorry but it's pretty hard to make a mistake on where you were drawing from, vest or waist holster. The argument officers in dire situations doesn't fly either. Tunnel vision, diminished hearing, heightened vision, or as it was called auto pilot. I believe all this, except the diminished hearing, in dire situations as it was called, thats when you are aware of everything, and it is to a officers advantage, I know this, because I was shot at while in the line of duty! Thats where the training comes in! Being a peace officer is a tough job, I know this from experience. When you are sworn in, you are sworn to uphold the laws of the constitution of the United States, the state constitution and laws of the state where you are a peace officer. If you abuse the power that has been vested in you, you should be held criminally accountable. This suspect was shot while being held down by two officers, by accident! In the still photo's I could see blood running down the suspects arm. The two officers according to the Sgt. did not hear the round go off, how do you miss the concussion of a 38 special round being fired? Then one of the undercover's is yelling at him ( you didn't do anything), shut the f--k up, and f--k your breath! The man at this time was not struggling for anything but his life, and saying I have been shot, and asking for help! The two undercover's should be dismissed, and be investigated by the FBI for civil rights violations, and prosecuted also! I feel for the reserve, I believe what he did was an accident, but he is still responsible for his actions, and needs to be held accountable for them. The two undercover's actions were intentional, and they should be held accountable! If two or three officers can not handle one unarmed suspect without shooting and killing them we and our police are in a lot of trouble! When I resigned as a deputy. The law in Texas stated the only time deadly force could be used on a fleeing individual was if he was escaping a penal institution, city, county jail, or a state prison! Not trying to elude capture. It further stated that the only time deadly force could be used on a suspect was if, you were in fear for your life, or in the fear for the life of a third person! It's hard to be in fear for your life from a unarmed person, if you are as a peace officer, then it's time for you to back off, keep the suspect under surveillance and wait for back up! Then nobody gets dead, no disgrace in that! I'm not anti police, I am pro police, the good ones! This is not the 1800's, there is no need for the Earps and Doc Holiday! Yes I realize there is a drug war going on, the same one that was going on when I was a deputy! Today it's just newer and different drugs! I am sure the pro police no matter what people, on here will be offended by my comment! Sorry, but it has gotten way out of hand, and if it is not stopped now, we may never be able to recover, or safe on our streets again from the police as honest citizens! We as citizens have the right to ask questions also, such as why we were stopped, why do you want to search my vehicle on just a traffic stop, do you have probable cause to think I have done anything wrong? I apologize for being long winded, I have never commented on anything like this before. But with all this going on in our country, it just seemed like the right thing to do!

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• Bounty Hunter posted at 8:32 pm on Mon, Apr 13, 2015.

  Posts: 3285

  Dianna, don't make a bet that you can't win. You have no absolute idea what rights or authority I have. I do.

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• Bounty Hunter posted at 8:28 pm on Mon, Apr 13, 2015.

  Posts: 3285

  Jacky boy, here's a news flash for you.

  But there is no reliable data on the number of civilians who are killed by police officers each year, The Post’s Wes Lowery reported in September

  Now, justify your actual numbers. You can't. You lose all credibility.

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• Bounty Hunter posted at 8:27 pm on Mon, Apr 13, 2015.

  Posts: 3285

  Dianna, tell that to the families of 27 officers who were killed in 2014. But then again, you think just because they are the police, and they wanted to be officers, then whatever happens to them is what it is.

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• Kevin Ulmo posted at 7:51 pm on Mon, Apr 13, 2015.

  Posts: 3

  Leave it to a couple OK people to argue with science, and then laugh about it. You two disgust me.

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• Kevin Ulmo posted at 7:35 pm on Mon, Apr 13, 2015.

  Posts: 3

  Get real lady, you can't feel the 1oz difference in these two weapons. Of course you probably didn't even make it to that part because you're an illiterate... thing.

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• Kevin Ulmo posted at 7:33 pm on Mon, Apr 13, 2015.

  Posts: 3

  So glad you can't read. It gives me so much faith in humanity. It was NOT the guy who shot him that said that, it was another officer entirely. And while I don't in any way condone his behavior, he was probably not the cause of death.

  I do, however, think that officers should refrain from this kind of mentality, or be kicked off the force without warning or compensation. To be clear, I mean the officer that said this, not the officer who shot.

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• Cops Kill posted at 6:53 pm on Mon, Apr 13, 2015.

  Posts: 2

  A racist always see the black man on the ground "directing the action."

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• Cops Kill posted at 6:47 pm on Mon, Apr 13, 2015.

  Posts: 2

  The man is dying, shot while on the ground face down. He is struggling for breath, has a 300 pound gorilla cop on top that tells him "f11ck your breath" after he warns them he's suffocating.

  That is negligent homicide.

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• Bounty Hunter posted at 9:19 am on Mon, Apr 13, 2015.

  Posts: 3285

  CJ, the family went into full defense mode when they either called the law firm, or were hunted down and told, "we can get you millions" by the attorneys. They also are on lockdown from making any comments as advised by their attorney., try to not confuse defense mode unless the whole scenerio is described.

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• Bounty Hunter posted at 9:10 am on Mon, Apr 13, 2015.

  Posts: 3285

  Gregory, him being a convicted felon made the gun sale illegal.

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• Gregory Gilkey posted at 7:15 pm on Sun, Apr 12, 2015.

  Posts: 4

  Was the gun stolen? What made the gun sale "illegal"?
  Are private gun sales between individuals illegal?

  Absolutely, indefensible and the Sheriff's office should be ashamed. I say SHOULD but, I know better.

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• Phyllis Austin posted at 5:40 pm on Sun, Apr 12, 2015.

  Posts: 5

  73 is too old to be carrying a weapon on a police force. Try joining the military at that age or try to be an air traffic control. You can't. Absurd!

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• Phyllis Austin posted at 5:32 pm on Sun, Apr 12, 2015.

  Posts: 5

  Let's not forget about the different weight of each weapon, that would alert me immediately, plus my familiar person arm handle grip. Are there any two alike on different weapons? But not on tasers ?

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• Phyllis Austin posted at 5:26 pm on Sun, Apr 12, 2015.

  Posts: 5

  There's no way to confuse the feel of the grip of your personal pistol that you practice shooting with on a regular basis with another grip of another different weapon that you don't practice with at the pistol range. No way possible to be confused what's in your hand, even without looking to see what's in your hand. Any served in the military in combat knows their weapon intimately. It's a rush to smoke screen in the early stage of investigation to quell public sentimate. The big excuse. There is no excuse for shooting an unarmed person fleeing, when he can be cornered and apprehended. If I don't shoot at you, you shouldn't shoot at me.That is how to diffuse senseless police murders. This is just another police state tactic of militarization of our police force. This is the military way, kill first, ask questions later.

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• Dianna Smith posted at 4:34 pm on Sun, Apr 12, 2015.

  Posts: 4677

  [thumbup]

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• Ty Bridges posted at 2:30 pm on Sun, Apr 12, 2015.

  Posts: 7

  Jerry, this was not a kill or be killed situation. He was an unarmed man on the ground with 4 other officers on top of him. This was a mistake, and the officer should be held liable for his mistake the same way a regular citizen would be held liable for their mistakes. And just because your department had good training for reserve officers doesn't mean TCSO does.
  

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• Ty Bridges posted at 2:25 pm on Sun, Apr 12, 2015.

  Posts: 7

  If I kill someone because I make a mistake and was driving too fast, or my dog gets out of the yard and attacks a child, I will be charged with Manslaughter 2nd degree. I am held liable for my mistake. This officer should also be held liable for his mistake. He should not get a free pass just because the is law enforcement. For TCSO to jump to his defense and emphatically declare 'no crime was committed' and they just blame the victim (deceased) is disingenuous and inhumane. They should be apologizing for the mistake and tell us what they are going to do to make sure this doesn't happened to another unarmed person. Some suggestions could be better training, no reserve officers on felony stings, tazers with different handles than their service weapon, etc. Additionally, the words of the other arresting officers is quite disturbing - telling the man 'shut up mother F&&&*%' and I don't give a SH@# about your breath' while the man is lying there dying is quite inhumane and disturbing - especially when everyone knew that the man was shot 'accidentally'. He did not deserve to die and the officer and the TCSO are liable.

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• Ty Bridges posted at 2:14 pm on Sun, Apr 12, 2015.

  Posts: 7

  So sad... While the officer may have made a mistake, he still caused the death of an unarmed man who was in custody. I do believe a crime was committed - in the minimum 2nd degree manslaughter. If I can be charged with manslaughter for driving too fast and causing a fatal accident or from my dog attacking someone and killing them, then I think this officer is also culpable and shouldn't be free from responsibility just because he is with law enforcement. I also think the Sheriff's department is liable for having a 73 y/o reserve officer in that position to make the mistake.

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• Jack E Smith posted at 9:58 am on Sun, Apr 12, 2015.

  Posts: 298

  RE: Sarge,

  "Lt. Calley was made into a scapegoat by the government. "

  Most likely..................................but.....................................
  he liked it!

  His is the one the chased down a three year old that crawled out out the "murder pit".

  Chased that three year old down and shot him in the head.

  People 'round the world don't "hate us for our freedoms"

  It's the 'KILL 'EM ALL AND LET GOD SORT 'EM OUT" mentality you espouse that has accomplished that.

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• Bounty Hunter posted at 9:39 am on Sun, Apr 12, 2015.

  Posts: 3285

  Jack e, Lt. Calley was made into a scapegoat by the government. Also, read the complete story as to why it happened. Of course, I can't force you to understand war or life on the streets. Your a product of your own downfall.

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• Charles Shuttleworth posted at 8:20 am on Sun, Apr 12, 2015.

  Posts: 3068

  Slips and capture. Deputy Bates is the real victim. This could have happened to anybody. Sounds a lot like spin city damage control.

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• s. mason posted at 8:04 am on Sun, Apr 12, 2015.

  Posts: 3

  WOW. That is a way to throw the victim under the bus. This story is so slanted, it is sickening. This man is shot while on the ground but its a mistake? He was going for his stun gun but used his fire arm. So I guess they feel the same and have the same color. We see this is not true. These stun guns have a neon piece on them for this very purpose. Also, the revolver has a silver part on it. When the investigator said he thought it was his stun gun instead of his revolver that why it jumped out of his hand, that just goes to the point that those weapon don't feel or weight the same. Also, they are on different sides of their body and they have had several hours of training using both and distinguishing between the two. And as far as a stressful situation, you are 73 years old, you volunteered, you know if you are easily nervous or not but better yet the person over you should know. Eric's record or other crimes in no way justify him being shot. I mean how much moving was he doing if " the stun gun" was being used, the other officers would have to clear themselves.... unless they are immune .... before the charge was given. Sad Sad SAD

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• Dianna Smith posted at 10:53 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 4677

  Somehow, I think you have called me much worse, Ron!

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• Dianna Smith posted at 10:51 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 4677

  Nope, just someone who cares more about people than the love for killing.

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• Dianna Smith posted at 10:50 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 4677

  Nope . . .just care about people, not killing.

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• Dianna Smith posted at 10:39 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 4677

  Dave . . .thanks, you just made my point for me . . .YOU have no right or authority to decide "who deserves it"!!

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• Ron Hill posted at 9:15 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  Travis, calling Dianna an idiot is simply not called for and is unproductive in civil and rational debate. [thumbdown]

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• Ron Hill posted at 9:14 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  Dave, it is sometimes difficult to comprehend that such human beings actually exist...

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• Ron Hill posted at 9:13 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  Travis, calling CJ an idiot is simply not called for and is unproductive in civil and rational debate. [thumbdown]

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• Ron Hill posted at 9:12 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  Travis, calling Dianna an idiot is simply not called for and is unproductive in civil and rational debate...[thumbdown]

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• Ron Hill posted at 9:11 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  Rex Berry, [thumbup]

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• Jack E Smith posted at 8:45 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 298

  Reminds me of the Mikado..........

  Lord High Executioner, " I only shot at Or killed only those who deserved it."

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• Jack E Smith posted at 8:35 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 298

  You never disappoint, Shed
  Especially fond of Wm Calley, no doubt

  
  1

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• Tim Walden posted at 8:20 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 121

  He is an old man. Why is he even working in such a critical capacity...If anyone here has a house fire, I hope a 73 old man doesn't show up to put it out!

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• Bounty Hunter posted at 7:25 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 3285

  dianna, in the 35 yrs of being an LEO, I only shot at Or killed only those who deserved it. You suggesting that I would shoot someone simply because I disagree with them is not only ludicrous but implying a slanderous comment about my character. Maybe CJ could defend you, that is, if you only had any defense. But beware, he spends a lot of time on the computer and charges over $300 per hour.

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• Bounty Hunter posted at 7:12 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 3285

  Batboy, you finally made a comment I agree with. Kill em all, and let God sort them out. Was a very profound statement in Vietnam, especially when women and children were notorious for carrying satchel charges.

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• TRAVIS WILLIAMS posted at 7:05 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 77

  always the idiot

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• TRAVIS WILLIAMS posted at 7:00 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 77

  again idiot
  

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• TRAVIS WILLIAMS posted at 6:59 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 77

  idiot
  

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• TRAVIS WILLIAMS posted at 6:56 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 77

  idiot
  

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• Ron Hill posted at 5:40 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  Dianna, apparently it absolutely does...

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• Ron Hill posted at 5:39 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  Yes, Rocky they are sick. But it likely goes far beyond mental illness. There is likely a spiritual component.

  If you look at the demographics of the individuals who say and type some of the most outrageous comments on this website, they are between the ages of 55 and 75, they are atheists or secular/humanists, they are liberal/socialist, and many (not all, but many) are homosexual...

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• Ron Hill posted at 5:36 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  Dianna, that is incorrect...

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• rrwilsonjr posted at 5:12 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 10

  No, no don't run...unless you have body armor on to protect you're back!!

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• Cindy Keith posted at 4:38 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 9928

  So.... if I get this right..... we should always give an officer of the law a pass for his 'slips and capture' firing the wrong weapon moment but an officer of the law doesn't have to give an alleged criminal a pass for his 'slips and capture' run from officers moment.

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• rrwilsonjr posted at 4:33 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 10

  Wait a minute. Just exactly who was the "victim of slips and capture" here. Bates, or Harris. By the way..." Fxxx your breath". Just before he was murdered, Harris thought: 1.Bates is 73 years old and should not have a gun, and should be considered armed and dangerous; 2. If Bates kills you while he is playing cops and robbers, he will not be accused of committing a crime; 3. He is in fact, the victim of "slips and capture", so if he kills you, no policy violation has occurred. 4. You are not going to live through this, because you are not the victim here.

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• Dianna Smith posted at 4:19 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 4677

  Rocky . . .a hoe and a shovel cannot kill multiple people within a few seconds.

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• Dianna Smith posted at 4:15 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

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  Ron, being emotional has nothing to DO with understanding or not understanding science.

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• Dianna Smith posted at 4:13 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 4677

  Ron, in medicine, "slips and capture" is called malpractice . . .and Drs are punished for it.

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• Dianna Smith posted at 3:32 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 4677

  So basically you are saying if you have never killed anyone, you have no right to judge!! WRONG!!

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• Rex Berry posted at 3:08 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 1324

  Harris authored his own fate. For the Monday morning quarterbacks, if you have never been in a similar situation, you are not in a position to condemn or pass judgement.

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• Rocky Mitchell posted at 3:05 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 779

  Dianna, my response to you deals only with the 'freakin gun show' comment that you made.
  How many times must it be explained to pacifist that people kill people, not weapons?
  A gun is merely a tool; like a hoe, a rake, a shovel; all can be a weapon of mass destruction if used in a way that it is not intended for.
  Just sayin'[sad]

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• CJ Grant posted at 2:36 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 1466

  They don't have to pull the trigger themselves to be a bad apple, many do it just by signing off on reports they know to be untrue, or backing bad officers.

  Just look at South Carolina. Without that video, all we had was Slager's report saying Scott went for his taser.

  Without that video, the Police Chief would have continued to stand by his officer, and all of you would have just said "Accused Criminal- Check, Police said he resisted-Check, Okay, dead is fine with me. Officers never lie."

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• Rocky Mitchell posted at 2:26 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 779

  If you truly believe that all police are 'bad apples' and are out to kill someone and then enjoy it because they got away with it:: 3 words, YOU ARE SICK! [sad]

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• Jack E Smith posted at 2:22 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 298

  "What about the sick amoral position of the criminal cops you so tirelessly advocate for?

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• Ron Hill posted at 2:21 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  Q, most liberal activists care more about their ideology than they do people...

  They literally worship their ideology....

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• Ron Hill posted at 2:20 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  Dianna to you agree with Jack about his notions of hating God? Do you agree with Jack about his notions of abortion?

  Dianna, are you a Democrat like Jack?

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• Ron Hill posted at 2:19 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  Dianna, not according to the science of "slip and capture." Indeed Dianna, your emotions don't hold water to science...

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• Ron Hill posted at 2:18 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  crickets....

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• Ron Hill posted at 2:17 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  Are you a scientist CJ? What are your qualifications in disputing the science of "slip and capture?"
  

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• Ron Hill posted at 2:17 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  tsk, tsk, tsk Knoles.... You shouldn't question mother-Science, now should you...

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• Ron Hill posted at 2:16 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  Splendid statement Charley, one of which I totally agree, and am pleased to hear from you. All science isn't the end-all/say-all, and one important tenet of science is to question said science....

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• CJ Grant posted at 2:09 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 1466

  That video...Wow.

  There is a lot more emotion than thinking happening right there.

  There are a couple of absolutely hysterical deputies we can hear. Continuing to yell "F*** you" after he has been shot. [thumbdown]

  If they can't do their jobs without becoming worked up like aggressive dogs, perhaps we need to find some people who can.

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• Charley Harjo posted at 2:07 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 532

  Not at all Ron. I'm glad you agree with science now. This must be a new concept for you. But please, just like religion, don't blindly follow science. Fortunately, you can put more faith in science than religion in a literal sense.

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• CJ Grant posted at 1:28 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 1466

  Slip and Capture is a fancy way to say "panic".

  Note this guy is an "expert' hired by the TCSO to explain this away, not seek justice. They are already in full defensive mode.

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• Larry Knoles posted at 1:22 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 4657

  Medical science?

  "Tulsa Police Sgt. Jim Clark, ...an expert brought in by the Sheriff’s Office..." does not appear to have any medical qualifications.

  The top Google hits for the term "slip and capture" are police websites.

  Medical science? Seriously?

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• Dianna Smith posted at 1:19 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 4677

  The people that are resisting arrest are NOT the people murdering . . .they are the people getting murdered.

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• Dianna Smith posted at 1:18 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 4677

  No, that is the Republican solution.

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• Dianna Smith posted at 1:17 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 4677

  Don, there are many flaws in your argument. I will give you two . . . Number One is that no matter WHAT crimes you might have been prosecuted for, that is ALSO not a defense for death sentence by cop. Number Two is that in most circumstances that cops kill unarmed people, they have not had TIME to SEE if they have other offenses on record . . .so they have no clue if they are shooting a totally innocent person or a 6 time felon.

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• Dianna Smith posted at 1:14 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 4677

  There IS NO science behind this excuse for murder!!

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• Dianna Smith posted at 1:12 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 4677

  Give a cite for this excuse for murder being science!

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• Ron Hill posted at 1:07 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  CJ, you apparently are on record approving the notion that the whole barrel is rotten...

  I for one, enjoy reading your comments which demonstrate your character...

  Are you a Democrat?

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• Ron Hill posted at 1:05 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  Public, [thumbup]

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• Ron Hill posted at 1:05 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  Are you arguing with Science Charley?

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• Don Bell posted at 12:57 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 529

  I agree, but give me some examples where this happens. In this case, it's a 6X, repeat 6X, convicted felon including a prior meth/assault on a police officer violations. He was in the process of committing multiple crimes including carrying a firearm, selling a firearm, resisting arrests, etc....So you're OK with just letting someone like this run away..maybe to your house? What about the recent Muskogee video where the cop shot someone running away - in a split second the suspect half-turned and fired a shot - thankfully he was wearing a body cam or the haters like CJ and Jack would have been out. The worst case appeared to be the North Carolina shooting while the guy was running, but now it comes out there was a lapse in the videos - could this suspect also have made a move similar to the Muskogee incident?
  

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• Charley Harjo posted at 12:50 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 532

  "slips and capture" = panic

  Not a good trait for a LEO. By the way, "slips and capture" would make a great band name.

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• CJ Grant posted at 12:32 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 1466

  Larry nailed it. The culture of silence and lying for each other is just as bad as those individual officers who actually brutalize and murder citizens. The rot has spread...

  Cameras on all cops.

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• Charley Harjo posted at 12:27 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 532

  This is what happens when a law enforcement agency is staffed with too many Buford T. Justice and Barney Fife real life characters. While that is a major concern, what is most concerning is that the public keeps electing a sheriff who is the epitome of both. The TCSO has been a joke for as long as I can remember. Stanley Glanz has been the sheriff for as long as I can remember. Two plus Two equals four. However, in Oklahoma, we can be easily convinced that it can equal five.

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• Ron Hill posted at 12:15 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  A scientifically valid phenomenon called “slips and capture.”

  So I guess Science has settled this one...

  Time to move on, because when 'SCIENCE" speaks, nobody can dispute, right?

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• Ron Hill posted at 12:12 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  Dave Shed, [thumbup] LOL!!!

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• Ron Hill posted at 12:11 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  Dave Shed, Jack represents perfectly the Democratic Party...

  As can be clearly demonstrated by not one Democrat, not one liberal, EVER disputes or rebuts his claims...

  Jack is a beautiful portrait of a liberal Democrat...

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• Ron Hill posted at 12:09 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  Dianna, tell that to the people who are resisting arrest...

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• Ron Hill posted at 12:09 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  So Jack, since you think the whole barrel is rotten, what is your solution? You do a lot of whining and complaining but you don't offer any alternatives...

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• Ron Hill posted at 12:08 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  Don, you are exactly right. If what this expert is saying is true, about this scientific phenomenon of "slips and capture" then the best advice for anyone who is being arrested or pulled over is simply not to resist arrest and let our wonderful criminal justice system settle it out the way it was created to....

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• Ron Hill posted at 12:06 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  But Larry, Jack and CJ claim the whole barrel is rotten. Do you dispute the opinion of two such great men?

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• Ron Hill posted at 12:05 pm on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 28706

  Apparently it is medical science, which I don't believe you have the qualifications to dispute....

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• Dianna Smith posted at 11:56 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 4677

  Even if that is true, which, according to the Sheriff quoted in one of the related articles, doesn't seem to be the case . . .I do NOT believe a private security guard has had full Police Officer training either. Being CLEET certified is not enough permission to allow you to pretend to be a policeman and to murder someone.

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• Dianna Smith posted at 11:52 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 4677

  Again . . .a judge and jury have the right and the responsibility to mete out punishment . . .NOT police officers!! Police officers have GOT to quit shooting first, instead of using all other means to de-escalate the situation.

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• Dianna Smith posted at 11:50 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 4677

  [sad][thumbup][thumbup]

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• Dianna Smith posted at 11:49 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 4677

  Americans do NOT have an automatic Death Sentence if they DO run!!! Until and Unless we do, it is ILLEGAL to murder someone simply for running away!!

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• Larry Knoles posted at 11:24 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 4657

  There are rotten apples in the barrel.

  And failure to remove them (covering for them) has spread the rot far and wide.

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• Larry Knoles posted at 11:23 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 4657

  "What sometimes results, he said, is a person’s behavior “slips” off the path of his or her intention because it is “captured” by a stronger response and sent in a different direction."

  That "investigation" is some of the silliest doubletalk I've ever heard. "Slips and capture" sounds like a close kin of temporary insanity.

  A defense attorney who used an argument like that on behalf of his client would be laughed out of court.

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• Jack E Smith posted at 10:56 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 298

  I'm connecting police violence with the militarization of our police forces.

  Cops now work from the same sick amoral position of the women, children and baby killers in that were in Vietnam, Iraq and Afghanistan............

  "Kill them all and let god sort them out"

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• Dianna Smith posted at 10:51 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 4677

  Dave, YOU need to stay out of conversations period, because you are likely to shoot someone for disagreeing with you!

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• Dianna Smith posted at 10:48 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 4677

  Obviously NOT one of the Good Guys!! The Good Guys do not wish hurt and pain on others just because they do not agree.

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• Dianna Smith posted at 10:46 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 4677

  This was NOT a "kill or be killed: situation!! MOST situations are not kill or be killed. The problem STARTS with police either being trained to think every situation is kill or be killed, or police defaulting to that position.

  As for being trained, I DID read all the articles and the Sheriff's department CLEARLY states they are trained in more administrative duties and they have a minimal shooting course. ONE minimal shooting course IS NOT how normal police ore trained. And I have the RIGHT to express my opinion, as do you!

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• John Elwell posted at 10:46 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 13566

  There is a good chance Bates won't be charged with anything. If he is charged, it will be a misdemeanor manslaughter charge.

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• Daniel Creel posted at 10:36 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 5255

  I object to J. Q. Public being allowed to use an alias! [beam]

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• B Suliburk posted at 10:20 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 2088

  The DA (or AG) will determine the “criminality” of this shooting. However, it is clearly a “wrongful death”, and the County will have a substantial civil suit filed against it with a likely monetary judgment resulting.

  I think the “civil suit” would have occurred whether or not the individual was a “regular” or “reserve” deputy. However, it is preposterous for Mr. Clark to indicate that this “shooting” was not affected by the Mr. Bates advanced age. I have several more years before reaching that age, but, even now, I do not have the reaction or concentration skills I did even 5 or 10 years ago. And, I do not know any of my contemporaries who do. Mr. Bates should not have been involved in this situation.
  

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• CJ Grant posted at 10:18 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 1466

  [thumbup]

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• Marilyn Torrance posted at 10:15 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 1556

  [thumbup]

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• Marilyn Torrance posted at 10:13 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 1556

  [thumbup] to John Q Public or whatever his real name is.

  BTW...Tulsa World, I thought "everyone" had to use their real name when making a comment? What say you?

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• Marilyn Torrance posted at 10:11 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 1556

  [spam]

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• Jack E Smith posted at 10:00 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 298

  Not just a few "bad apples"

  the whole barrel is rotten!

  Keep your cell phones charged and learn "How To Shoot Video Of Police Wrongdoing That Can Be Used In Court"

  Check out the nonprofit advocacy group Witness, which is using its “Video As Evidence” program to bolster the credibility of witness videos, and sharing tactics with citizens and justice groups.
  

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• Charles Clinton posted at 9:51 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 240

  Hey Tulsa World. Who said it?

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• CJ Grant posted at 9:41 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 1466

  [thumbup]

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• CJ Grant posted at 9:34 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 1466

  “You shot me man. Oh, my God. My breath.” A deputy responded, “F*** your breath.”

  This. 100X this. That deputy just watched a "brother in blue" accidentally shoot this man, and as he's gasping, and dying, all he can spout out is "F*** your breath."

  You're telling me that's not the attitude of someone who wouldn't lie for another cop, who doesn't give 2 cents about the life of dying black man right in front of him.

  Shame on the TCSO.

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• Don Bell posted at 9:34 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 529

  In every situation I can think of involving shootings, etc., involving the police, the suspect did not obey commands. It's just not that hard to avoid getting shot!

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• Victor Paul posted at 9:27 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 553

  Boycott Robert C Bates and Mercury Insurance!

  When will the sherriff's dept say 'Bob' cant ride along with them anymore?

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• Charles Clinton posted at 9:27 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 240

  I don't think I want someone who looks at a dying man and says "F*** your breath" wearing a badge or carrying a gun. Who is this guy?

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• Don Bell posted at 9:26 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 529

  Excellent post

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• Jack E Smith posted at 9:16 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 298

  These cops still act like they are back in Iraq, Afghanistan or Vietnam

  They "slipped and captured" (euphemism for killed) hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians.

  Wm Cally just "slip and captured" between 347 and 504 unarmed civilians in South Vietnam on March 16, 1968. (Victims included men, women, children, and infants. Some of the women were gang-raped and their bodies mutilated) Oops, guess there is a "slip and rape" syndrome too!

  The cops coming back from Iraq were involved in the culture that facilitated the deaths of up to 200,000 innocent Iraq citizens. Oops, "slip and capture" .

  US Police Have Killed Over 5,000 Civilians Since 9/11
  Statistically speaking, Americans should be more fearful of the local cops than “terrorists.” Plenty of "slip and capture"!

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• Jack E Smith posted at 8:57 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 298

  Do tweekers get to use the "slip and capture" to kill citizens just like the cops?

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• Brad Wilson posted at 8:37 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 971

  Holds him down boys!!! Here comes ol' Grandpa and his walker, ordained by the Sherriff's department to teach him a lesson. Opps! Looks like we will be retraining next week!

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• Bounty Hunter posted at 7:47 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 3285

  Dianna, as a citizen of Tulsa and Tulsa county, your citizenship is hereby revoked. We don't need to hear your unsubstantiated comments. Better yet, you could patrol your own neighborhood, and live with the crime that you as a liberal would allow.

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• Bounty Hunter posted at 7:43 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 3285

  Jack the batboy, you should comment on issues that you are better qualified to comment on. NONE. You misrepresent everything, spread untruths and misquote everyone on here, including yourself.

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• JERRY VIRDEN posted at 7:25 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 20

  Dianna, if you would take the time to read all the stories associated with this story, you would know that the reserves are as well trained as the regular officers. I have been a reserve at another department, and am currently employed in the security business now for 19 years. Unless you have been there, you have no right to judge their actions in a kill or be killed situation.

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• Roy Thomason posted at 7:14 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 1165

  That was the way you behaved around the Gestapo in 1938 Germany too.

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• Jack E Smith posted at 5:56 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 298

  'Slips and capture'

  The police officers "Mulligan" ? [thumbdown]

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• Jack E Smith posted at 5:50 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 298

  Oh, I see.......... a"Glock or a Sig and a taser" weighs the same. Great excuse to shoot someone, "on accident"!

  You never disappoint, Sarge!

  I just knew you could find a way to excuse police manslaughter!
  Your "get out of jail free card" for killer cops never ceases to amaze!

  and........ kudos again to the Sheriff's office for coming up with the ...................
  Bates as the "victim" ploy...........that's the greatest snake oil sale, ever!
  

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• Scott McConnell posted at 4:45 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 1211

  One less criminal on the streets and in the jail. Way to go Bates. This story along with the others minus the one in SC; goes to show you; don't run from the police, don't fight with the police, and most importantly don't be a criminal. I know that most people lack common sense but please learn from this morons actions and don't be a criminal.

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• inderj-165 posted at 1:46 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 4

  Well if it is so hard to tell the difference than why hasn't this happened with fulltime officers plus as a police officer you are trained to stay in control of your thoughts and surroundings during routine stops or violent life threatening. Ones if you don't know whether you have your gun or taser in your hand you are not fit to carry either or be. Any kind of officer reserve security etc cover up

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• grant holm posted at 12:54 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 6947

  Not very funny[sad]

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• Bounty Hunter posted at 12:02 am on Sat, Apr 11, 2015.

  Posts: 3285

  Dianna, I know it's hard for you to comprehend anything that requires some thought, but I put Micah in a shoot don't shoot scenerio, and politely asked him to put himself in the shoes of the officer to see if he would react, over react or take no action at all. The "best friend" scenerio was to put Micah in the same position as the reserve deputy in that he was trying to protect his fellow officer from injury or possible death, has the person got a hold of his gun. Please stay out of conversations that require thought process. It will just give you a headache.

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• Bounty Hunter posted at 11:57 pm on Fri, Apr 10, 2015.

  Posts: 3285

  Batboy, once again, you don't comprehend a single thing I said. Not once did I excuse anything. I asked Micah to compare the handgun vs the taser. I asked him to put himself in that shoot don't shoot situation if he could. Not one single time did I ever or have I stated, anything as you suggest. Now, if you would let Micah answer, instead of us having to read your jibberish it would be appreciated.

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• Lonnie Lamb posted at 11:15 pm on Fri, Apr 10, 2015.

  Posts: 17123

  Appears to be nothing more than a tragic accident.

  Whether the man had a gun or not could not have been known, after all he was selling a gun. He should not have run. He should not have resisted arrest. He is hardly an innocent victim.

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• Ann McWhortor posted at 10:37 pm on Fri, Apr 10, 2015.

  Posts: 4268

  I believe reserve deputies are CLEET certified. If you don't know what that means, then look it up.

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• Robert Wilson posted at 10:25 pm on Fri, Apr 10, 2015.

  Posts: 2201

  It's a pleasure to have a corrupt sheriffs department defended by a our corrupt police department.

  The guy that was shot and killed by wanna be cop grandpa, is the not the victim of this murder, it's the idiot that can't tell the difference between a taser and a hand gun.

  Thanks Stanley Glanz, for selling a license to kill the people you are supposed to protect, to the whoever buys you tasers and beer.

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• Dianna Smith posted at 8:49 pm on Fri, Apr 10, 2015.

  Posts: 4677

  Its the sickest thing possible that the freakin gun show is expected to have 35,000 people there. These are sick stats . . .and a sick society who has such a lust for killing machines. At this rate, the USA deserves our downfall, if we cannot be any more civilized than this!!!

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• Dianna Smith posted at 8:46 pm on Fri, Apr 10, 2015.

  Posts: 4677

  Yes, Ann . . .he pulled a gun out of his bag during the police sting to catch him. When he LEFT the car and took off running, he dropped that gun . . .he was unarmed. You cannot entrap someone to do something, like selling weapons, and just when he pulls a weapon out to sell you, shoot his head off because he has a gun . . .the gun you were supposedly buying. Selling weapons is a crime and has a penalty . . .but it is NOT an automatic death penalty without a judge or jury!!!

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• Dianna Smith posted at 8:30 pm on Fri, Apr 10, 2015.

  Posts: 4677

  As a citizen of Tulsa city and county, I want "reserve" deputies abolished!!! How dare you try to protect me and my city with people who are not FULLY TRAINED POLICE OFFICERS . . .officers who are there to protect every race, religion, creed, gender identity, sexual orientation, sex, and any OTHER category you can think up . . .as opposed to protecting themselves.

  I get police have the right to life. But you do NOT have the right to take lives for stupid reasons!!! If you cannot stand the possibility that you might get hurt . . .DO NOT BECOME A POLICE OFFICER!!! You guys are becoming the bad guys instead of the good guys and I KNOW there are some good guys among you. Stop covering for each other and cover the people you are paid to protect!!!

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• Dianna Smith posted at 8:25 pm on Fri, Apr 10, 2015.

  Posts: 4677

  Since when does a "best friend" come into this sordid whitewash?!

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• Jack E Smith posted at 8:19 pm on Fri, Apr 10, 2015.

  Posts: 298

  Been waiting for Shed to find a way to excuse police manslaughter!

  Your "get out of jail free" never cease to amaze!

  and........ thanks to the Sheriff's office for...................

  Bates as the "victim"...........that's the greatest crock of bull butter, ever!

  [thumbdown][thumbdown][thumbdown][thumbdown][thumbdown]

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• Ann Franklin posted at 8:19 pm on Fri, Apr 10, 2015.

  Posts: 2098

  The deceased pulled what looked like a gun of his bag. Did any of you hypocrites happen to be paying attention to that fact? Mr. Bates is, sadly a 73 year old man who made a deadly mistake. Did he do so deliberately? No.

  Whether or not he was a donor and how much he donated has absolutely nothing to do with this matter people. Let's stick to the facts, not your hate and coveting against a wealthy man.

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• Charles Shuttleworth posted at 6:49 pm on Fri, Apr 10, 2015.

  Posts: 3068

  I like how Bates is the victim now.

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• Bounty Hunter posted at 6:33 pm on Fri, Apr 10, 2015.

  Posts: 3285

  Micah, have you ever held both a weapon such as a Glock or a Sig and a taser? Next time you have the chance, hold both, with what would be your shooting hand, and other than the weight possibly, see if you can tell much difference. Now multiply that with the fact that your best friend is fighting with someone, who could possibly take that weapon away and kill not only your friend, but you as well. Your in a shoot don't shoot situation. What do you do?

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• Joe Smith posted at 6:01 pm on Fri, Apr 10, 2015.

  Posts: 53

  Bates even knew he did wrong...and the police still look the other way.

  And you wonder why many people have a negative opinion of cops.

  [thumbdown]

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• grant holm posted at 5:33 pm on Fri, Apr 10, 2015.

  Posts: 6947

  The video should substantiate the findings, release it

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• grant holm posted at 5:29 pm on Fri, Apr 10, 2015.

  Posts: 6947

  Wow, who is writing the scripts for the police nowadays? He reached into his waist band, I was in fear for my life etc. They all say the same thing. What would anyone expect for a top donor to the boss

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• Micah Felton posted at 4:35 pm on Fri, Apr 10, 2015.

  Posts: 164

  Um, if you can confuse a taser for a gun, you uh...probably shouldn't be carrying a gun....ever.

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