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Baby Veronica Baby Veronica: Cherokees blast Capobiancos' effort to recover legal fees

The tribe says it has sovereign immunity from being required to pay the lawyers.

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Posted: Saturday, November 23, 2013 12:00 am | Updated: 2:59 pm, Tue Jul 29, 2014.

It's "inappropriate, unreasonable and unconscionable" for Baby Veronica's adopted parents to seek more than $1 million in legal fees, the Cherokee Nation said this week in court documents.

Federal and state law gives the tribe sovereign immunity from any efforts to collect the money, according to arguments filed in Oklahoma and obtained Friday by the Tulsa World.

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93 comments:

  • Jonathan Schwarz posted at 10:36 am on Wed, Nov 27, 2013.

    jonsch-177 Posts: 1727

    By the way, the Cherokee Nation knows they are going to lose this. If they were going to win, CN AG Todd Hembree would be front and center spewing his lies and misinformation while trying to gloat. He only lets Chrissi talk when the Tribe is going to lose. I've seen the show before.

     
  • Jonathan Schwarz posted at 10:33 am on Wed, Nov 27, 2013.

    jonsch-177 Posts: 1727

    Awww, I totally missed this article and the chance to reconnect with all you. I'm so bummed. No chance to copy and paste the law... no chance to reference the Cherokee budget to show what they spent on the trial...no chance to get into the sovereignty vs. "tribal sovereignty" discussion...Thank God this case isn't going away anytime soon and I'll have the chance again.[smile]

     
  • Theresa Perham posted at 10:40 pm on Mon, Nov 25, 2013.

    tesss-261 Posts: 1

    I think it is unconscionable that the Capobiancos first steal this man child, charge him with a felony and now are trying to destroy him completely by bankrupting him. How can they charge for legal fees that were never charged to them?

     
  • Sandy Macauley posted at 10:03 am on Mon, Nov 25, 2013.

    sandym-221 Posts: 85

    Well get this the lawyers for the C's (or any lawyer that takes pro bono cases) can deduct the expenses from their taxes. That just shows the level of their greed.

     
  • Sherry Dake posted at 8:56 am on Mon, Nov 25, 2013.

    sherry-263 Posts: 36

    Pro Bono! Mr. & Mrs. C. don't seem to have a clue, they should be glad they have little Veronica, and leave it at that. I think The Browns have paid through the nose and back already. I think this shows the C's true colors. It's not enough that they tore a happy family apart, now they want to bankrupt them. I pity them in about 10 years when Veronica is old enough to understand what they have done. IF they were honest people they would have adopted a child that really needed a home, Veronica had a loving home with grandparents and a father who would go to the moon and back for her. Dustin was trying to do the right thing and protect our country and his daughter. I bet the C's never tried to help others the was the Browns have. They will be hurt and sorry in the long run. Dustin, right will prevail. God has a plan and I am sure Veronica will come back home where she belongs.

     
  • Sandy Macauley posted at 5:51 pm on Sun, Nov 24, 2013.

    sandym-221 Posts: 85

    [thumbup][thumbup][thumbup][thumbup][smile][smile] Roger

     
  • Sandy Macauley posted at 5:49 pm on Sun, Nov 24, 2013.

    sandym-221 Posts: 85

    Maybe if this goes to court we will finally find out the amount of money the C's paid bio mom and how much they paid for her trips to South Carolina, the car, her mortgage. How much did they pay over the amount allowed by Oklahoma law.

     
  • Sandy Macauley posted at 5:45 pm on Sun, Nov 24, 2013.

    sandym-221 Posts: 85

    I find it to be so interesting Ron that you don't question where the money raised by the Save Veronica group went too. That money was supposed to go to the legal cost for the C's yet no one has given any accounting as to where that money was spent. CN won't have to settle. They won't have to pay a dime for pursuing the rights of the tribe. This is just another round of intimidation set forth by the same lawyers and adoption agency involved in the other cases regarding illegal adoption of Native American children.

     
  • Kitty Ang posted at 7:40 am on Sun, Nov 24, 2013.

    nonist-260 Posts: 959

    The Grandmothers will pray for your bitter heart, Ron.

     
  • Mert Rozman posted at 11:47 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    myrtle-214 Posts: 12901

    Tyrone - its not about blood percentages. Never was.

    The CN has the right to set criteria for membership. Period.

     
  • Ron Hill posted at 9:55 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    ronhil-261 Posts: 13596

    I think the Cherokee people have a right to know how much money was spent by the tribe on this case. I think they have a right to know how much money went to support Dusten Brown, including his living expenses and especially his LEGAL FEES.

    This will ALL COME OUT AND BECOME PUBLIC RECORD during discovery, depositions, and trial.

    I predict the CN will settle, to avoid all this. Oh yeah Sandy and Kitty, the CN will pay big. Ha!!!!

    But not enough. They sowed a lifetime of pain and devastation on many innocent people. They deserve to reap more than a million dollar legal bill...

     
  • Sandy Macauley posted at 8:22 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    sandym-221 Posts: 85

    The CN did not defy the US Supreme Court - one the US Supreme court only remanded the case back to the South Carolina Courts, they did not issue any orders concerning the custody of Veronica. The ruling in the US Supreme court did not take away any rights of the tribe, it only dealt with the issues concerning Dusten. The rights of the tribe under ICWA are still in place. Members of the tribe, Dusten and his family still had the right to try to adopt Veronica. Which they did file for adoption. The guardianship orders were put in place prior to the SC adoption going forward and that was done because Dusten was taking part in military training (which members of the military do when they have kids). Now as to the Cherokee Nation moving the Brown family. There were threats made against the family and they were moved for protection. That way the Cherokee Marshals could provide 24 hour protection. No court is going to rule against that.

     
  • Auditors of the Universe posted at 7:58 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    Auditors of the Universe Posts: 2

    Has anyone reimbursed the CN for legal fees for all the cases the CN has won? Also, are you saying that all the different groups that filed in the infamous Elian Gonzales case should have paid Cuba? I mean Cuba did win so same argument would apply right.

     
  • Terry Cheney posted at 6:34 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    Terry64 Posts: 2

    I agree with you Ron

     
  • Terry Cheney posted at 6:32 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    Terry64 Posts: 2

    The CN put them self in Dusten Brown battle it was the CN that moved the Brown family on tribal land there for they should have to help pay for all the legal fees, The CN is not above any law and neither was Dusten, they should have to split the amount owed

     
  • Kitty Ang posted at 6:20 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    nonist-260 Posts: 959

    G.D.: puh-leeze tell me you are NOT the "G. Plumlee" I know. please.

     
  • Kitty Ang posted at 5:29 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    nonist-260 Posts: 959

    Tyrone: You deserve an answer to that question.
    According to the present "law of the land" (i.e., USA fed law) the old 1/16 blood quantum (your 6.25% or one great-great grandparent) laws are not sacrosanct; Veronica (your 1.5625%) is, under "law of the land" a tribal member of the CNO because her father, his parents, their parents, etc. have always been recognized and live in and with the CNO community. No South Carolina judge should have the right to change that just because the racist Capobiancos don't want her to be a tribal member. Do trust me that within the life-time of many of us not yet "retirement fodder" just LOOKING 1st Peoples was enough to be discriminated against. (and in today's world, outside the niche-immigrant communities it's unlikely you would "see" my Cherokee, though Lord knows they did when I was young.)
    I am 1/8 (your 12-1/2%; the same as that Georgia guy tested for his African-American blood lineage) and am not, not likely ever to be, a member of the CNO because it is their RIGHT to determine citizenship just as it is the right of the USA, France, Russia, Liechtenstein (smallest country in the world - 35k people, smaller than many cities) etc. to determine their citizenship. USA, France, Russia are sans soli - by right of soil, some major countries are still sans sanguine - by blood (which might also be determined by father or mother, only.) Any dentist can tell you I am truly metis - part 1st Peoples but, yeah, - so?

    your best question: "When does indian blood go away & you get treated like all us "nobodies"?" "Indian" blood goes away when the "Indian" heart is lost/goes away and you're an individual "nobody" who doesn't remember your past or care about your People or Mother Earth; when you've forgotten who your ancestors were or where they came from.

    Note: the reason I, and many others, only say 1st Peoples - as Canada officially terms their own 1st Peoples -is because people like South Carolina's Nikki Haley truly are Indian-American, i.e. India immigrants born in this country and use Columbus's geographical stupidity to play both sides of issues and to deliberately cloud issues.
    If you have a happy Thanksgiving, thank a 1st People.

     
  • Sandy Macauley posted at 3:23 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    sandym-221 Posts: 85

    [offtopic] Being republican or Democratic has nothing to do with this case

     
  • roger johnson posted at 2:00 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    cherog-239 Posts: 54

    @Tyrone, My Great Grand Fathers last name was Johnson. My Great Grandmothers last name was Downing. Their ancestors came to Indian Territory during the 1837-38 forced removal with those same last names. All of these that I speak of were full-bloods. Why should I wish that any of those were named War Something?

     
  • Tyrone Woodard posted at 1:50 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    samw91-130 Posts: 1622

    Jean, [thumbdown][thumbdown][thumbdown][thumbdown] ( I win, I got 4 of a thumbs down)

     
  • Tyrone Woodard posted at 1:49 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    samw91-130 Posts: 1622

    Nah[thumbdown]

     
  • Tyrone Woodard posted at 1:49 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    samw91-130 Posts: 1622

    Obamas election proves an 80 IQ is all it takes to become a liberal freeloading drooler

     
  • Tyrone Woodard posted at 1:47 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    samw91-130 Posts: 1622

    Yep, yep ditto, ditto...and Ill see ya one [smile]

     
  • Tyrone Woodard posted at 1:46 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    samw91-130 Posts: 1622

    Yep

     
  • Ron Hill posted at 1:46 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    ronhil-261 Posts: 13596

    Like I said Mert, when justice prevails, there is nothing wrong with being satisfied with that. Nothing at all. It brings closure to a situation of immense suffering that I strongly feel was inappropriately and maliciously applied by the CN. I feel a ton of empathy for the Brown family, but not an ounce for the CN.

     
  • Tyrone Woodard posted at 1:45 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    samw91-130 Posts: 1622

    Jean,[thumbdown] theres more to life than[thumbdown]...[thumbup] [thumbdown] [beam]

     
  • bpruitt863 posted at 1:39 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    bpruit-228 Posts: 48

    The Cherokees used Dusten Brown to further their own ends and now they want to cut him loose for legal purposes. The sovereign immunity argument didn't work before. What makes them think it's going to work now? They defied several courts, including the U.S. Supreme Court. In the end, their "sovereignty" didn't amount to much.

     
  • Tyrone Woodard posted at 1:37 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    samw91-130 Posts: 1622

    Go ahead Roger, Democrats dont pull any filth from their language...have at it.....

    BTW....you gonna support Ted Cruz for president? Marco Rubio? Allen West? Tim Scott?

     
  • Tyrone Woodard posted at 1:36 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    samw91-130 Posts: 1622

    Rons on a roll....dont stop Ron....

     
  • Tyrone Woodard posted at 1:35 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    samw91-130 Posts: 1622

    Makes ya wish your greatgrandpappy was named War Something

     
  • Tyrone Woodard posted at 1:34 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    samw91-130 Posts: 1622

    Amen Ron.....immunity fior indians in all things is......racial bias....bias against everyone not indian.

    And Q of the day....how much indian blood does it take to be "indian enough"? 50%?
    25%
    12 1/2%?
    6.25%?
    3.125%?
    1.5625%

    When does indian blood go away & you get treated like all us "nobodies"?

     
  • Tyrone Woodard posted at 1:29 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    samw91-130 Posts: 1622

    Mert, Im shocked. We are on the same page...once.

    Good job, Mert....theres hope for ya....ha

     
  • Mert Rozman posted at 12:55 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    myrtle-214 Posts: 12901

    Roger - point taken. But I meant nothing like that.

    My comment was in response to Ron Hill's comment about "handing over the keys" to the casino.

     
  • Ron Hill posted at 12:54 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    ronhil-261 Posts: 13596

    Wow, if the profits are that high, why are the Cherokee people living in such poverty?

    Greed maybe? Cherokee 1% ers????

     
  • Mert Rozman posted at 12:54 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    myrtle-214 Posts: 12901

    Ron - Dianna is right. This case was a tragedy all around. There should be no schadenfreude over it.

     
  • Ron Hill posted at 12:52 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    ronhil-261 Posts: 13596

    Dianna, it's called truth and justice. Two things you are not very familiar with evidently.

    Justice. Reap it.

     
  • Mert Rozman posted at 12:52 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    myrtle-214 Posts: 12901

    Kitty, we have no disagreement as to the facts. The ICWA remains as before. It just didn't apply to the Veronica case - or so said the Supreme Court. Without the ICWA, Mr. Brown was left without much of a basis for getting a Mulligan on Veronica's adoption.

    I don't pretend to understand the circumstances under which the losing party in a lawsuit must pay the attorney's fees of the winner. Usually our courts follow the "American system" which requires everyone to pay their own attorneys. I suppose the matter is especially complicated when a sovereign nation is involved. It would appear that the attorneys of the adoptive parents always thought a recovery was likely, which would be why they took the case at no charge to the couple.

    Is there any doubt that the CN paid Mr. Brown's legal expenses throughout this drawn-out dispute?

    I agree with you that historically, the American legal system has been grossly unfair to America's first inhabitants. The courts have usually failed to right injustices against them. No doubt that continues even to the present day. But I don't feel that this was really a proper Native question. It should have been about Veronica - period.

     
  • Ron Hill posted at 12:51 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    ronhil-261 Posts: 13596

    Dianna, it's called truth and justice. Two things you are not fam

     
  • Bruce Delahorne posted at 12:07 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    Bruce Delahorne Posts: 984

    Roger, if you disagree with Ron about whether a coin flip will come up heads or tails, he'll call you racist.

     
  • Jean Taylor posted at 12:06 pm on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    Jeanie Posts: 3742

    Dianna, [thumbup] We know a couple who successfully adopted an Indian baby. There were many hoops to jump through, and it took a lot of time, more than a year, because the Tribe makes absolutely sure the baby will go to a good home. The Tribe did home inspections, background checks, and interviewed birth parents, plus lots of legal papers to wait for then sign...

    The C's could've avoided almost of their troubles and expense if they'd notified the Cherokee Nation in the beginning of their trying to adopt Veronica. Instead, they whisked the newborn baby out of state soon after it was born, stealing the baby away like thieves in the night. All that's happened since in this case is their own fault.

     
  • Jean Taylor posted at 11:55 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    Jeanie Posts: 3742

    Kitty, [thumbup][thumbup][thumbup]

     
  • Jean Taylor posted at 11:54 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    Jeanie Posts: 3742

    Kudos, Sandy! Great comment! [thumbup]

     
  • Jean Taylor posted at 11:52 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    Jeanie Posts: 3742

    Dianna, "The Tea Party proves we still have white supremacists!" comment is absurd. Would it surprise you to know there blacks and other minorities in the Tea Party? And what in the world does the Tea Party have to do with this case???

     
  • Jean Taylor posted at 11:49 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    Jeanie Posts: 3742

    Kudos, Diana! Great comment![thumbup]

     
  • Jean Taylor posted at 11:48 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    Jeanie Posts: 3742

    Gordon, [thumbup]

     
  • Jean Taylor posted at 11:47 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    Jeanie Posts: 3742

    Sandy, [thumbup] I wonder if the Save Veronica's financial info is liable to public information requests since it was a charity fund. A lot of people would love to know just how much money was donated, and exactly who it went to, and how it was spent.

     
  • roger johnson posted at 11:42 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    cherog-239 Posts: 54

    Ron, How do YOU spell RACISM? Without doubt, you are a real piece of work. I would use another word in place of piece but the editors won't allow me to express my true opinion of you.

     
  • Jean Taylor posted at 11:42 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    Jeanie Posts: 3742

    Sandy, [thumbup] Great comment! And, I hope so much you are right!!!

     
  • Jean Taylor posted at 11:40 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    Jeanie Posts: 3742

    Dianna: The Capobianco's gave the birthmother $10K, and paid her doctor and hospital bills. Like Ann pointed out, Veronica was 'legally' sold. 'Legally' because an attorney did the paperwork.

     
  • roger johnson posted at 11:39 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    cherog-239 Posts: 54

    @Mert. Profits from Casino's have absolutely no bearing on this case. Its similar to saying that, because the Cherokees are flush with money because of the Casinos, those profits are sufficient enough to terminate all contracts, treaties and compacts between the two Governments. NOT!

     
  • Jean Taylor posted at 11:37 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    Jeanie Posts: 3742

    Ann, [thumbup][thumbup][thumbup][thumbup][thumbup]

     
  • Jean Taylor posted at 11:35 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    Jeanie Posts: 3742

    Kitty, [thumbup][thumbup][thumbup][thumbup][thumbup] to both your comments.

     
  • Kitty Ang posted at 11:35 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    nonist-260 Posts: 959

    Dianna: all many people have is to savor their own negativity at the misfortunes of others. The KJV says, "rejoice not when thine enemy falleth and let not they heart be glad when he stumbleth." (Pr 24) The CNO haters are little, if any, different than the people who laughed at the Shepherd boy being drug behind the truck (because he was Gay) or the Ala teens who deliberately ran over the Black man - and had their supporters. Sadly, those who claim to be metis - part 1st People blood - and are haters are just like the '70s Jewish man kicked out of the Ku Klux Klan (he was the Grand Wizard!) for being a Jew. People who hate their own are to be pitied, all you can do is pray for them.

     
  • Kitty Ang posted at 11:10 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    nonist-260 Posts: 959

    Mert: usually I respect your reasoned opinions, however, you do not seem to understand that the SCOTUS only determined one small part of the case, that the ICWA did not apply in this particular case (very convenient that cronyism-Roberts rushed to hear the case for his former law clerk's wife, Lori Alvin-McGill,) however, that Dusten DID have the right to go back to the lower courts, which he did. The question was if Dusten could legally fight in the Oklahoma courts, which he was trying to do. When the Oklahoma supreme court (through moral turpitude) did not vote to take the case, Dusten returned HIS daughter to the "legal" parents.
    The CNO should NOT have to pay attorneys fees because there was a legitimate question before the courts about the ICWA, which, although it was not decided for the CNO, was a LEGITIMATE legal question.
    As stated elsewhere, the SCOTUS has always shown blatant prejudice toward all 1st Peoples, a prisoner - i.e. a criminal, is statistically more likely to prevail in SCOTUS than any 1st Peoples Nation. Hello, all 3rd world Peoples - are you listening? - now, you know your snowball's chance in hades here in the USA.

     
  • Dianna Smith posted at 10:45 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    Dianna Posts: 2323

    The Tea Party proves we still have white supremacists!

     
  • Dianna Smith posted at 10:44 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    Dianna Posts: 2323

    Tyrone: PLENTY of people would still want to adopt an Indian baby thru official Indian adoption agencies. That is the only way adoption should happen, is thru adoption agencies that follow civil and moral laws.

     
  • Dianna Smith posted at 10:42 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    Dianna Posts: 2323

    Why should ANYone pay when the attorneys have first said they were doing their work for free and second, they have already been paid by the fund raising activities of the adoptive parents?!

     
  • Dianna Smith posted at 10:39 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    Dianna Posts: 2323

    Kitty, As far as I am aware, no money paid to the egg donor was used in care of Veronica, as her care was paid for by Soonercare and the taxpayers of Oklahoma. Veronica was taken away so soon after birth that not even very many diapers were used by the egg donor.

     
  • Dianna Smith posted at 10:35 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    Dianna Posts: 2323

    Please, Ron . . .that is sick, to enjoy the suffering of others . . .I wish you would seek professional help.

     
  • Kitty Ang posted at 10:34 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    nonist-260 Posts: 959

    TW: many people are waiting to see if there is ANY coverage for one of the other Oklahoma-born babies stolen by the same sleaze-bag un-Christian Nightlight when they're in court on Tuesday. You know, the one that Oklahoma courts did claim jurisdiction over and now Ray Godwin wants to about face his argument in the Veronica trials and claim exactly the opposite so he doesn't lose face in the adoption industry that he had a baby and lost her due to his normal illegal/shady maneuvers? The one where the adopting parents, both over age 60, were declared unfit even by the lax standards of South Carolina?

    Censorship by omission is still censorship.

     
  • Mert Rozman posted at 10:29 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    myrtle-214 Posts: 12901

    The amount involved is perhaps one day's profits from the Hard Rock Casino.

     
  • Mert Rozman posted at 10:29 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    myrtle-214 Posts: 12901

    The conservative Supreme Court determined that the Indian Child Welfare Act did not apply in Veronica's case. The position of the Cherokee Nation (and of Mr. Brown, who was the CN's sock puppet in this case) was wrong from the start. The CN was fighting not so much for Veronica, but for strengthened jurisdiction over its tribal members' children.

    Why should the CN not have to pay attorneys' fees?

     
  • Gabriel Del Valle posted at 10:27 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    puro24-262 Posts: 6

    Why? That casino makes nearly half a billion dollars a year. I don't know your education level but that's a lot more than 1 million.

     
  • Kitty Ang posted at 10:23 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    nonist-260 Posts: 959

    Tyrone: "if the Capobiancos hadn't won why would anyone down the road want to adopt an Indian baby?" - I don't know, go to India and ask them.
    Adoption, when necessary, is a good thing, as it has become an industry that NEEDS babies to stay in business (and for Ray Godwin to boast making $30-50k a child; see the online price lists for "up-coming newborns") it is human trafficking. It is in the same slime hole as human bondage and the sex-trade. It is the exact same ilk.

     
  • Kitty Ang posted at 10:18 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    nonist-260 Posts: 959

    Roger: [thumbup][thumbup]

     
  • Kitty Ang posted at 10:15 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    nonist-260 Posts: 959

    I hope the IRS gets involved in this and the sleaze bag un-Christian adoption industries.
    Lori Alvino McGill, the poster woman (she's certainly no lady) for narcissism, "It is also disappointing that they would try to hide behind immunity," Lori Alvino McGill told the Tulsa World, "and leave Mr. Brown holding the bag." - what a croc. It shows they deliberately set this up to go after the CNO and be one more step to break soverign rights. She knows Dusten will NOT be left "holding the bag." Alvino-McGill is only afraid she might have to live up to her professed "oh, I'm doing this pro bono" - what a liar. But, hey, here's an idea - collect it from the BIA money stolen, where even John McCain and SCOTUS couldn't find what had been done with money OWED the tribes. Take it on account - on account of you won't ever find it.
    Steve: I would like to see this case actually adjudicated, too - in the international court at the Hague, where it belongs. I want the entire world to look at this case, even if it means they look at Alvino-McGill and her bud, cronyism-Roberts and see that's
    "American in-justice." You're right, Steve.
    A friend sent me the latest: the Capobiancos won't see any of the blood money McGill and fellow sleaze want so they declared little Veronica a "special needs" child and not only get YOUR TAXPAYER money for "adopting" her but more money for "adopting" a special needs child. Why - because she's (as people on here put it) 1.5% Cherokee and part-Hispanic? That RACISM. Who did the assessments?-another one of Melanie's pro bono "friends" in psychology? The laws that allow bi-racial and "minorities" to be declared "special needs" is institutionalized RACISM. Hey, lets ask George Lucas and his wife if their new baby is "special needs" or Robert DeNiro and Gracie - is you son "special needs" because he's bi-racial? And the babies of Halle Barry and Kloe Kardashian? or, maybe it's only a law to help the adoption industry. The adoption industry TAUTS these laws to baby buyers. Won't it be great for Veronica to know how much money she made for the sleaze-bag adoption industry, the "elite" of Washington's lawyers and the Capobiancos??? wow- should make her feel soooo loved. and it's USA taxpayers dollars at work?
    Veronica's Law - equal rights for fathers, NOW.

     
  • Ron Hill posted at 10:13 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    ronhil-261 Posts: 13596

    I don't know what I'm looking forward to most. The CN paying out the wazoo, or ALL the details of how they paid Dusten's legal bills coming out in sworn depositions...

    Pass the popcorn...[smile][smile][smile][smile]

     
  • Ron Hill posted at 10:11 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    ronhil-261 Posts: 13596

    The tribe will be signing over the deed to the Hard Rock Casino very soon to the Capobianco attorneys....

    [smile][smile][smile]

     
  • Cindy Keith posted at 10:00 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    cindyk-234 Posts: 4288

    Nope ditto.

     
  • Kitty Ang posted at 9:55 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    nonist-260 Posts: 959

    Ann: have you seen the list of prices for newborns???

     
  • Sandy Macauley posted at 9:40 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    sandym-221 Posts: 85

    They won't get a dime from the tribe. Nor do I believe they will get any money from Dusten, because the ruling in the US Supreme Court gave Dusten the right to apply to adopt his own daughter (which he did apply for). It also gave the right for members of the tribe to apply to adopt Veronica (some members of the family also applied). Also the ruling that gave guardianship to Dusten's family members prior to the adoption being finalized comes into play. The C's came to Oklahoma on their own. Their lawyers could have handled everything here. There was no need for them to come to Oklahoma.

     
  • Sandy Macauley posted at 9:31 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    sandym-221 Posts: 85

    [thumbup][thumbup][thumbup][thumbup] Roger

     
  • Sandy Macauley posted at 9:30 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    sandym-221 Posts: 85

    [thumbup][thumbup][thumbup] Ann
    Where did all the money go from the Save Veronica group? No one has answered that question. So I think Cherokee Nation should bring that point up in court. Lets see exactly how much money was raised and where it went.

     
  • Sandy Macauley posted at 9:23 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    sandym-221 Posts: 85

    The C's did not play by the rules. They knew that Veronica was Native American and that the father would contest the adoption. They were informed about the Indian child welfare act. Oklahoma law only allows that a biological mother be paid $1,000 dollars for extra expenses (over medical costs). Yet they gave bio mom money for a new car, to pay on her mortgage and other expenses.

    The law protects Native American children, and there are plenty of Native American families out there that want to adopt children. The law protects the children and the tribes.

     
  • Steve Meador posted at 9:15 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    stevem-137 Posts: 364

    I would like to see this case actually adjudicated, to prove or disprove the contention by the Cherokee Nation of "Sovereign Immunity" for the tribe. When they entered into the legal proceedings alongside Brown, they shed their immunity in my opinion.

    The Cherokee Nation Supreme Court claims sovereign power from adverese decisions of the United States Supreme Court. This also needs to be tested in court, and either proven or disproved.

     
  • Sandy Macauley posted at 9:12 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    sandym-221 Posts: 85

    This whole thing stinks, for the Save Veronica Group was raising money through the Facebook site to pay for the C's attorneys. Yet, the attorneys were working pro bono. Some one please explain how that works. Thousands of dollars were raised yet no one has given an accounting of how that money was spent.

     
  • Steve Meador posted at 9:11 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    stevem-137 Posts: 364

    I think he may be writing about one of his Ex's...

     
  • Ann McWhortor posted at 9:09 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    SorryCharlie Posts: 2919

    A mother should never be able to sell her baby. Put it up for adoption through an adoption agency if the mother doesn't want it. The mother knew what she was doing by making it a private adoption. An agency would have checked out all avenues before placing it.

    Sell a baby without an attorney to represent you and you'll end up in prison. If an attorney sells your baby for you its money in your pocket.

    The Capoblancos, their attorney and mother all represent greed at its finest.


     
  • Steve Meador posted at 9:09 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    stevem-137 Posts: 364

    Why don't you post under your name like everyone else does here?

     
  • Ron Hill posted at 9:02 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    ronhil-261 Posts: 13596

    The Cherokee Nation sowed a heap of pain and anguish, and now it's time for them to reap it. Time to pay the piper CN.


    All of this is happening....

    #justasipredicted

     
  • lakia johnson posted at 8:49 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    lakjo6-161 Posts: 508

    I hope they get every last penny.

     
  • roger johnson posted at 8:39 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    cherog-239 Posts: 54

    They lost in the courts the same way they have lost challenges and law suits, attempting to restore treaty rights that have long been abused or totally ignored or illegally abolished. Admit it or not, we still live in a white supremacist society that is rampant with racism. Our Supreme courts, both US and States have a long history of denying Human rights to minorities, especially Native Americans. [sad]

     
  • Auditors of the Universe posted at 8:05 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    Auditors of the Universe Posts: 2

    I'm waiting for the financials from all that fundraising by the Capobiancos and their "friends". I want to see how much was collected, how much is left, and what it has been spent on. Of course that's the whole point of them suing Verinica, she is a minor and therefore the whole thing should be sealed your honor. That way none of us will ever see what they actually did with it all. I'd also love to see who is going to move to quash any subpoenaed financials by arguing the invoking of 5th amendment self incrimination status.

     
  • roger johnson posted at 7:51 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    cherog-239 Posts: 54

    The US Supreme court, Back Seat Mary and the Oklahoma Judge that supported the adoptive parents, should hang their heads in shame! What a travesty of justice they all created.

     
  • Andrew Robertson posted at 7:45 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    Drew Posts: 437

    Nope

     
  • Bruce Delahorne posted at 7:33 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    Bruce Delahorne Posts: 984

    Does anyone have any idea what Herbert said?

     
  • J. Lee posted at 7:22 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    jolee-758 Posts: 244

    They need to pay up, period.

    TW, Brown handed over Veronica after the ruling by the Supreme Court. Whether it favorable or unfavorable is irrelevant in reporting this story.

     
  • Herbert Rogers posted at 7:19 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    hrroge-166 Posts: 593

    Don't mess with a desperate woman who CAN'T have children (I can only hope, one day...she comes-for-mine).
    But, (this couple) is doing what a lot of folks are doing today: take advantage of an upside-down CourtSystem..comprised of Judges who are totally bereft of what used to be known as CommonSense. Heck...even the two female Governors (Nickki Hailey & Fallin) helped the Coopdibananas. This case is peeling-back the vunerability of all our children to any woman who's MadAtGod...dragging-her-husband along for the Ride.
    Looks like all of us are really going to witness the efficacy (or not) of CherokeeSoverignity.

     
  • Gordon Mills posted at 6:59 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    d-v94g-454 Posts: 5602

    The problem I have with this suit is the amount of legal fees. I would like to see the justification for $1mm. The article indicates that the Cherokees will immune from monetary damage and Dusten Brown probably does not have the resources.

     
  • Dave Shed posted at 6:59 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    dave_s-142 Posts: 2824

    The Cherokee's stepped in, acting like they were interested in only the little girls rights, so they in effect should be liable for any attorney fees. Make them pay.

     
  • DAVID CLOUD posted at 6:53 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    ugh1o1-634 Posts: 641

    The tribes have deep pockets? Among the many things the tribes pay for roads, schools ect. and the Indian Hospitals that take care of many people that if they cut their finger they would loose what indian blood they have. The Cherokees tried to keep the baby with its FATHER. But once again the courts ruled that the women decides about her body and her baby.

     
  • G.D. Plumlee posted at 6:29 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    glendp-260 Posts: 21

    I completely agree with Tyrone Woodard. Tribe should have stayed out of this case.

     
  • Tyrone Woodard posted at 5:48 am on Sat, Nov 23, 2013.

    samw91-130 Posts: 1622

    For me this is an easy case to analyze.....Capobiancos did nothing wrong. Period...

    Indian Tribe has deep pockets & thought they could "outspend" the adoptive parents. They lost in court now the attorneys for the Capobiancos feel like they should be reimbursed for the brazen Indian tribes failed attempt to "buy" the verdict.

    Conclusion: if it HADNT ended with the Capobiancos winning, why would anyone ever want to adopt an indian baby in the future? Does that help indians down the road? Of course not. Indian babies are like all babies, if not wanted by the parents they need to be adopted if possible..The Capobiancos played by the rules.The indian tribe & Brown didnt.

    Pay up Cherokees.

     
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