lobeckman, Tulsa (1/11/2009 10:39:41 AM)

We can expect a lot of this bail out money to end up in other countries. GM and all the rest of the "once big three" build many of their cars in places such as Mexico and Canada. Mr. Jones fails to mention this fact in his editorial. And GM sells cars made in exotic Korea! And they buy drive trains from Honda! All because they lack the ability to design and build good stuff. As the head guy at GM to Congress one time; "We're not in business to make cars...we're in business to make money.

Dr. Strangelove, Tulsa (1/11/2009 10:47:23 AM)

Good point lobeckman- AutoWeek has a great article this week that discloses the domestic content of all vehicles sold in the U.S. The highest was the Ford Crown Vic at 90%. Guess what- it's built in Canada. Toyota Sienna is 85% domestic content and it's built in Indiana. Amazing

HighTop, (1/11/2009 3:05:02 PM)

It's real simple. Broadly speaking, if it ends in a vowel, it's foreign. An import. The profits go home where currencies continue to be manipulated, markets remain essentially closed to American car manufacturers, and retirement pensions and medical care is the government's responsiblilty. It's the culture.

Polar Bear, (1/11/2009 3:17:20 PM)

If people heard 24/7 about the causes and effects of climate change/global warming as often as they are bombarded with those mindless,horrible truck ads we might be able to build a sustainable society before it is too late to save ourselves from corporate greed.Where are the bike lanes??

HighTop, (1/11/2009 4:22:16 PM)

Mr. Jones,

More pretty pictures dominate your dated opinion than recent domestic car manufacturer developments. True, the Big 3 have issues, much of it a product of 100 years of business legacy and poor management decisions.

I'll address some items you discuss. Pickups - the best mpg trucks are Ford / GM, 21 mpg highway. Toyota has stopped production of their trucks for 90 days - at their San Antonio truck plant, which was recently built for about a billion dollars over budget. Welcome to the truck market, Toyota. Kudos to them when they can get a solar powered truck to haul lumber while pulling a trailer - all the while taking the abuse truck drivers notoriously shovel-feed their rigs.

Ford also has a hybrid SUV, Mr. Jones. They have had the hybrid Escape for years. Ford is also introducing this quarter, a hybrid Fusion and Milan vehicle which will get 41 mpg city. An added bonus, it looks like a car.

American manufacturers are also working on hydrogen and various other battery type vehicles in their research. Much of the "way out there" research of hydrogen cars is on a small scale for-government-release-only and not near ready for high manufacturing volumes. You see, it is still extremely expensive and the technology cannot be currently mass produced profitably or pass government safety regulations.

California has signed off on the above and can't wait to get the hydrogen units. We will be force-fed many more California ideas very soon, Mr. Jones.

Partnering with other companies for an electric car network. Not sure about this, but I do know the American car manufacturers have joined together with the U.S. government to fund research in bringing fuel saving technologies to market. It's an attempt to catch up with the Asians and their government who have been partnered for years.

Ford is doubling their hybrid offerings this year. Ford has been pumping $12-14 billion dollars worth of R&D into their product-led recovery for several years now, much of which is just now beginning to come to market. Ford has taken the approach of improving gas mileage in the short term, mechanically and aerodynamically, while developing improvements in their hybrids/alternate fuel and second generation battery technologies. Every vehicle Ford introduces has the best-in-its-class fuel economy - it started with the '08 Flex, the new '09 F150 and will continue with the Fusion/Milan and Ford's Eco-Boost engines.

I don't believe the future is near as dim for GM and certainly Ford, as some believe. I do not hold the same attitude, however, for Chrysler.

That said, change is coming and actually has been taking place for nearly 10 years in Oklahoma concerning the car industry. The GM plant in OKC is gone, Oklahoma employees who used to work for the Big 3 have been drastically cut - continually, and Ford dealerships in the Tulsa area have been thinned.

The free market system is working in the car industry, foreign and domestic, and is felt by many, trickling down to all, including local TV stations and newspapers.

"This time"? Perhaps, Mr. Jones. A bit of research might suggest, "American Time!"

moogle, (1/11/2009 8:14:43 PM)

The problems with the big three are much more basic than lack of innovation: Lousy product and lousy service. A few examples.

Turbo-Hydramatic 200 transmission. Complete garbage that cost many ex-GM (permanent EX-GM) owners a lot of money.

CD4E transmission used by Ford in the Probe and Mazda 626, maybe others, for at least 7 years from around 94 to 01 (give or take) even though it was known to fail by somewhere around 60K to 70K miles. About 3 grand to get it replaced. It cost many permanent ex-Ford owners a lot of money.

The GM 231 cu. in. V6 engine. Inadequate oil circulation. Figure on an early rebuild if a head gasket doesn't blow first. It cost many permanent ex-GM owners a lot of money.

I have a 79 pontiac sitting in the drive that needs to be hauled off to the scrap yard (or somebody take it and restore it). The turn signals literally fell off of it. The headliner had completely fallen out of it by about 60K miles. It's a four door. The back windows do not, and were not made, to roll down. With about 150K miles on it, it's on its third engine. I decided to stop patching it up when the transmission (TH350) died.

Even though that 79 is a litany of cut corners and bad engineering, word has it that Big Three autos got worse throughout the 80s. Myriad are the Big Three autos with door handles and various other interior parts that have fallen off. Upholstery that quickly turned to tattered rags.

The problems faced by the Big Three can be summed up in one word: capitalism. If your competitor builds a superior product and offers superior customer service for the same price or less, then your competitor will eventually put you out of business.

Maybe the Big Three have improved their quality. I wouldn't know. I don't need to know. I've found other brands with which I have been happy and plan to stay with as long as they give me no reason to change. Innovation is nice, I suppose, but not getting ripped off is even better.

52favoriteteacher, WASHBURN, MO (1/12/2009 1:44:37 AM)

Lousy product and lousy service.
Well said moogle

Bailout dollars are not the answer

Hydrogen power is a very good alternative.

My nephew has a hydrogen boost on his truck...
helps on fuel mileage

What in the World!, Tulsa, OK (1/13/2009 6:58:33 AM)

Excellent points Mike!You are 110% correct! The early bird gets the worm but the second mouse gets the cheese! LOL!

senor notas, Tulsa (1/13/2009 2:49:12 PM)

How do you spell UAW? It's the unions. Get rid of them!!

H_Harl, (1/13/2009 5:46:03 PM)

well, just for the record, i drive a ford f150 with 205,000 miles on it, never a rebuild never any major work. still runs super strong. uses no oil and doesn't smoke. and gets about 21 miles/gallon. i've had several other fords and gm vehicles that have been just as reliable. i'll stick with them.