my view, Sand Springs (3/16/2009 4:45:26 AM)

If I'm not mistaken this editorial was written by none other than Mike Jones. The writers absolute hatred for the state in which he resides is telling.

When I was going to school about the first three or four minutes was spent saying the Lord prayer and the pledge of allegiance. Both were recited daily; I don't ever remember one teacher saying well boys and girls, we have to do our mandated duty.

A pledge to the state just might instill some pride in Oklahoma, which is sorely lacking in many and partially the writer of this editorial. It may have been the underlining reason the Legislation was unanimous in their vote.

I would lay odds that employees of the TW wasted more time batten this back and forth than the legislature spent discussing and voting. If I were your employer I would want my money back.

We'll hear from the usual state haters who will champion your cause and agree with you.

Ayo, T-Town (3/16/2009 6:01:20 AM)

In Oklahoma 'liberal' means anything which the extreme Christian, so-called conservative right disagree with.

If you don't like TW then read the daily Oklahoman, or the Beacon or whatever that drivil is called. Or, here's an idea.........read the news of your choice online. It's teaming with both left, center, and right political news. Go for it. It's a big world out there.

tulsan09, Tulsa (3/16/2009 7:30:45 AM)

By gosh--FORCE them to be patriotic. FORCE them to love their country. It didn't work in Nazi Germany--it won't work here. If you really want your children to pray and to be proud of their country, then why don't you teach it at home and let the teachers teach academics. I'm always amazed at how many people think you can force their morality, patriotism, etc. on others.

carvinrocks2, (3/16/2009 7:59:51 AM)

So this is what our government funds go to now, mandating pointless things. Who's going to pay to put all those Oklahoma flags in the classrooms?

QLC, (3/16/2009 8:14:24 AM)

What is the pledge of allegience to Oklahoma?

What a tremendous waste of time. Good thing everything else is going so well that the legislature can finally get down to school pledges.

Loophole, (3/16/2009 8:16:49 AM)

I don't know what all the fuss is about. In the past, every class said the pledge of allegiance as part of the "morning exercises." Flags are no great expense. I suspect few would even know the words if it hadn't been for saying it in class. Many now don't even know the national anthem, couldn't tell you the name of their senator or congressman, or the name of the governor. These little folks will someday be all that's left to lead this country. They ought to be prepared better than what we've seen.

TonyQ, Tulsa (3/16/2009 8:43:14 AM)

Well didn't take long for somebody to start whining about librul bias.

Gee when you're so convinced that everything's a giant conspiracy it sure makes it easy not to have to think about the issues. I mean you rightwingers already know everything right?

Did it not even occur to you that this editorial is making a good point, that this legislation is unhelpful, flag-waiving political grandstanding?

Which is all our new Republican legislature seems able to cough up lately.

lizzy, Tulsa (3/16/2009 9:09:53 AM)

"A pledge to the state just might instill some pride in Oklahoma"

Yeah, you're right. Dutifully reciting a pledge every day is a much more effective way to instill state pride than working on those pesky statistical categories in which Oklahoma always comes in near the bottom or the top--whichever is most embarrassing. Teacher pay? Bottom. Teen pregnancy? Top. Etc.

Companion, elyocp (3/16/2009 9:11:16 AM)

tulsa09...sure like reading your comments. You and some other people on here I think could write some good books on some interesting subjects.


But anyway...when I was in grade school after reciting it a few times it became redundant and boring. Couldn't wait to get through the recital and sit my a@@ down. My patriotism can not be bought or forced. I want my country to love me and in response I will love it. It's a two way street.

Proud Muslim, Tulsa: Coolest place in the world (almost) (3/16/2009 10:13:31 AM)

If reciting the pledge becomes routine to students, it'll lose value and meaning.

Save the pledge for bigger events.

1804fan, Tulsa (3/16/2009 10:15:52 AM)

there is little more important than patriotism -- great job -- the pledge is in!

Royce, Tulsa (3/16/2009 11:49:50 AM)

When I was in elementary school, in Barnsdall incidentally, we began the day with a verse from the Bible and reciting the Pledge of Allegiance. I don't think this very modest exercise in faith and patriotism harmed me at all.

What do you loonie leftists have against America and her patriots?

Graychin, Eucha (3/16/2009 11:52:28 AM)

How can anyone confuse patriotism with reciting a pledge every day?

If that is what passes for patriotism in America, we are in bigger trouble than I thought.

It's kind of like thinking that you "support the troops" because you have that magnet on the back of your car - meaningless nonsense. What have you DONE for veterans? For your country.

The pledge and the magnets are mere "talking the talk."

Royce, Tulsa (3/16/2009 11:53:26 AM)

Ayo writes: "In Oklahoma 'liberal' means anything which the extreme Christian, so-called conservative right disagree with."

Nope Ayo. 'Liberal' means anything which Osama bin Laden would readily embrace.

Eagle 4, Tulsa (3/16/2009 12:40:17 PM)

A pledge to our beloved United States? Certainly, keep on keeping on!

A pledge to a mere subdivision where hate, hypocrisy, bigotry and prejudice are rampant? I think not! The truly intelligent students will snicker after that exercise in futility.

Hey, I'm a native Oklahoman and I'll pay my State taxes( plus fees, permits, penalties, assessments, late fees, licenses, utility, fuel, phone, boat, sewer, water management, excise, tags, usage, grocery, sales, county, city, and on and on) and I'll pay for the TW even if it offends me sometimes, but darned if I'll pledge allegiance to this corrupted disorganization so charitably called a State!

Dru, (3/16/2009 12:58:15 PM)

A bill passed a few years ago already requires every classroom to have a US flag, although I don't know of any with an OK flag. That bill also required a Veteran's Day assembly and until now, I thought that bill also required the daily pledge and moment of silence (or at least my school took it to mean that). While the OK pledge isn't lengthy, it is still more time away from academics which does add up over the course of 175 school days.

Of course, I'm still trying to figure out why we have one of the highest paid state legislatures and why bills like this are their main concern in the current economy.

Companion, elyocp (3/16/2009 1:28:15 PM)

Royce...{What do you loonies leftists have against America and her patriots}
Why do people like you make such idiotic statements? Just because I don't think like you or walk like you that I hate American. You must have went to a private or religious school. Seems like that's where all this bullsh*t is coming from. I'm patriotic, I'm a veteran.

Just say that I don't do "everything" my parents,grandparents,priest,teachers,and whoever wanted me to do. I have my own mind, do you ?

I'm a free-thinking liberal patriotic American leftist and proud of it.

TonyQ, Tulsa (3/16/2009 1:57:54 PM)

Royce,

There has been no greater boost to OBL and his movement than George W. Bush. Before we decided to go bombing around the Middle East Al Qaeda was a relatively weak organization. Now it's worldwide. So stop slandering the majority of this country with your pathetic, vile Limbaughian applesauce.

Ayo, T-Town (3/16/2009 2:29:27 PM)

Pompous? Not guilty. LOL
Hateful? Guilty with the caveate of 'on occasion'.
Sarcastic? Guilty, Very much so.
Chip on shoulder? Not guilty. Too heavy.
Leftist? Guilty
Christian? Not Guilty
Spiritual? Guilty
Honest? Guilty

My contention lies not with reciting the Pledge of allegiance to a flag representing this country, it lies with the waste of our taxpayer money and the waste of time spent by our elected representatives to enact a law to salute the Oklahoma flag, too. Who cares? Let the school district have the option on the OK flag. We need to spend money enacting a LAW for this?

Hogwash. We have a Republican majority for our state representatives and they've done nothing but pass idiotic bills. We could fire every one of them and never know they were gone. These bozos in OKC are full of nothing, do nothing, and are a waste of our money and time.

Capiche?

rockfan, broken arrow (3/16/2009 2:36:09 PM)

Tulsa09 unfortunately it did work in NAZI germany all too well.
The pledge or at least the idea itself is'nt so bad,"one nation"im not so sure,"under God"whose God?Mohammed's?Moses?St Paul's?
Liberal bias?i beleive Mr. Jones was referring to
news articles in the TW not the Op ed pieces.
If TW wants to be Liberal thats their right as you have a right to read another paper if you don't like it.

rockfan, broken arrow (3/16/2009 3:02:34 PM)

Liberals are often accused of knee jerk responses,well conservatives can be accused of the same.
Tradition,family,all things decent.there was a guy with the initials A.H.who claimed to support them in germany!As the Bible says sometimes the Devil appears as an Angel of light!think!even if you beleive TW is a loonie liberal rag it's very existence is absoloutly necessary otherwise you'd just be spoonfed right wing propaganda.

Ayo, T-Town (3/16/2009 3:19:06 PM)

Let's call a political truce for St. Patty's Day! Manana! That'd be 'tomorrow' in Irish.

We can drink green beer or green coffee or gree tea, and just get jiggy with the green.

You too, McPigg......sounds like an Irish name to me!

Field Marshall Dick, Slums of Kennybunkport (3/16/2009 3:31:42 PM)

I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the Hayseed State of Oklahoma. And to the low rated education and high rate of teen pregnancy for which it stands. One notion under God without liberty and right to work wages for all.

Field Marshall Dick, Slums of Kennybunkport (3/16/2009 3:44:26 PM)

Here's an idea. In my day when I was in elementary school we hung the state flag next to the American Flag and recited the pledge to both at the same time. But I guess that is no long good enough for the Freedom Hating Republicrites that hate our Freedom from their propaganda. They hate our freedom from their pagan religion. They hate our education system because it's not being used as an indoctrination camps to their Hate Filled Bigoted Religions. I know HATE is their favorite word by the way they use it all the time.

Royce, Tulsa (3/16/2009 4:56:11 PM)

Companion writes: "Why do people like you make such idiotic statements? Just because I don't think like you or walk like you that I hate American. You must have went to a private or religious school. Seems like that's where all this bullsh*t is coming from. I'm patriotic, I'm a veteran."

All of my adult life I've noticed that the great traitors in our nation, from Klas Fuchs, Alger Hiss, Julius Rosenberg, Laughlin Currie, Harry Dexter White, and the rest of the Ware Group in the 1940s and '50s down thru the Vietnam Era where the Democrats chanted "Ho Chi Minh is gonna win", and spit on veterans returning home from a combat assignment in Vietnam, to the present War with Islamic Terrorists where the Democrats harass a family while they are burying their son who was killed in action, have always been Democrats.

Even Bill Clinton, who wrote, not said but wrote, that he "loathed the military", and he did Dodge the Draft, claimed to be a "patriot". I was absolutely astonished when this Yellow Livered, Draft Dodging, Coward beat Medal of Honor recipient Bob Kerry in the 1992 Democrat Presidential Primary. This Draft Dodging Coward went on to beat decorated war hero George Bush in the general election. In 1996 he defeated Bob Dole, who was another decorated war hero.

Do I have my own mind? I think so since I hold an MS in Chemical Engineering. I too am a veteran, serving in Truman's War where some 36,000 young Americans perished in a war that Truman never once intended to win but was quite content to let Americans die in vain in his bloody stalemate.

And, in my mind at least, "patriot" and "liberal American leftist" are contradictory terms.