Loki, Broken Arrow (6/2/2009 3:14:23 AM)

The past weeks have provoked heated exchanges on this site. A diversity of opinion briskly raised its head.

Spirited defense of an alleged murder in OKC showed a plurality of posters actually cheered the alleged murderer as a hero.

Morbidly proceeding, Dr. Tiller's alleged murder occurred in full view of his wife and other parishioners. This received a plurality of support in the form of "He deserved it, blood on hands, child killer, etc"

I've been in harsh circumstances, but I really wonder about the bloodthirsty element in the discourse of some people on this site.

Anonymity makes it possible people are actually saying what they think (with little self-editing).

It is a self-selecting sample of people, but if it's a cross-section, it is a peculiar bunch of folk in my native state (I fully count myself in the peculiar category).

I expect we'll careen forward whacking each other with rhetorical baseball bats. But I would suggest the tone we use too often gets in the way of more effective bites of an issue.

We we raised with manners. They are a social lubricant. So next time you're inclined to flame somebody, count to 5 and post something better.

jhill, Tulsa (6/2/2009 3:28:04 AM)

Loki,

I share your concern about the blood-thirsty nature of so many of the postings. I am particularly concerned that so many of these demands for blood seem to be knee-jerk reactions, based on the very first reports of a story, when actual details are still very sparse and when it is obvious that much is still missing.

Mr. Tweedy, Tulsa (6/2/2009 5:00:12 AM)

Extremists, whether they be right-wing or left-wing, who resort to violent acts like the murder of a doctor or incite people to commit such acts are nothing but terrorists. They are not activists - they are not patriots - and they are most decidedly not Americans.

concernedpapa, Kiefer (6/2/2009 5:27:32 AM)

Many of the postings about Dr. Tillers murder were extremely disturbing. Educated seemingly intellegent people were actually happy this man was murdered. To my knowledge this man never broke a law. One young lady said he was caring and compassionate and took her into his home during a time when she was confused and didnt know what to do. It has been reported the many of the procedures he preformed were on cases where the women desperatly wanted the child but ther was no hope for survival and her life was also at high risk. I never met this man but I have a feeling I am the poorer for it. Rest in Peace Dr. Tiller. Contrary to what some say you will be gravely missed.

Isaac Parker, Tulsa (6/2/2009 6:36:13 AM)

Tiller was a millionaire doctor performing thousands of late-term abortions while taking advantage of lax laws in Kansas. Supposedly, he was one of only three doctors performing these procedures. Anyone thinking these viable babies were all "diagnosed" with severe abnormalities, as the writer of this editorial suggests, is blatantly naive. Rather ironic that this guy died in church. Late-term abortions should only be performed for well-documented and provable reasons. Kansas should update it's abortion laws. All abortions should be few and far between.

Just1Man, (6/2/2009 7:16:31 AM)

Isaac, it's a matter of opinion. In my opinion, anyone with strong enough feelings about preserving life would not take a life.
abortion Doctor Killers, for whatever reason, have given into the same evil that they think they are trying to stop. No one wins.

Mr. Tweedy, Tulsa (6/2/2009 7:25:52 AM)

Just1Man - This isn't a debate about abortion - which is unwinnable in either direction. This is the murder of an ideological foe because one can't have their way using the democratic process. This is not a killer killing a killer. This is a terrorist committing an act of murder.

fredsdad, Tulsa, OK (6/2/2009 7:41:12 AM)

Many have used terms like "murderer" in describing the late Dr. Tiller. Many have used similar terms in describing soldiers like the one gunned down in Arkansas.

Without entering the debate as to which had the higher moral calling, the murder of each was an inexcusable act of terror. Many on both sides will try to ascribe the killings to the inflamed rhetoric of the left or the right, and thus try to suppress that speech.

The fact is that we have had inflamed rhetoric on social and political issues throughout our history. Inflamed rhetoric does not cause a mentally stable individual to go commit murder against a soldier or a doctor. Nor will the absence or such rhetoric prevent the mentally unstable from committing these acts.

Both murders are equally tragic. If used to suppress speech, the tragedies will be multiplied exponentially.

coffeelady, (6/2/2009 8:10:51 AM)

A champion for women's healthcare and women's rights is now gone. This man literally took a bullet for women's rights. I thank him for standing up for and defending those rights. Dr. George Tiller was a good man; kind, caring compassionate. My thoughts are with his wife, Jeanne and his son and grandson.

clun9522, Sapulpa (6/2/2009 8:16:19 AM)

righton

Tiller was a baby terrorist? I suppose that would make you an intelligence terrorist.

Tiller specialized in late term abortions in which the baby had no chance at having quality of life, would die upon birth, etc. These are not easy decisions on behalf of the mother to make. Tiller did not specialize in abortions that were willy nilly, or abortions that 19 year olds just wanted to get rid of.

Know the facts before you spew... please.

Bedazzled, (6/2/2009 8:35:17 AM)

Pretending that people like O'Reilly on Fox News who have kept on inciting people for years that Dr. Tiller was a baby murder should be held accountable for their actions along with the mentally disturbed man who killed Dr. Tiller and the terrorist who kept bombing the facilities throughout the years. People that influence other people on the edge like O’Reilly seems to be able to do, help make these doctors targets. Of course we know O’Reilly did not hold a gun to this man’s head and make him kill Dr. Tiller, but it doesn't help when this people are on the tipping point of crossing the line.

52favoriteteacher, Washburn--used to be Broken Arrow (6/2/2009 8:36:00 AM)

...For the time being, abortion remains a legal procedure. The murder of a doctor attending church is not...

Legal does not make me satisfied about one third of my generation not being alive and walking and talking on this earth.

Legal does not in any way justify when a innocent life has been snuffed out.

Legal is simply a man made word that is used to somehow soothe the hardened hearts of the many doctor's and the many women who are killing many Americans.

zzx375, BA (6/2/2009 8:38:01 AM)

In spite of abortion on demand being a moral blight on this country, there was absolutely no justification for Tiller's murder. None.

clun9522, Sapulpa (6/2/2009 8:46:49 AM)

52favoriteteacher

Again, I urge you to consider the facts. Tiller specialized in late term abortions in which the fetus was discovered late in the pregnancy to have severe or fatal birth defects or the birth would threaten the mother's life.

Also, Kansas law prohibits aborting viable fetuses.

These are not easy decisions for anyone to make. So, before you go on to talk about murder and baby killing... consider the facts... for once. And truly put yourself in that situation.

Willard_Roker, (6/2/2009 8:51:40 AM)

Guns don't kill people... Right-wing anti-abortionist do.

UltraVi, (6/2/2009 9:05:12 AM)

Abortion is no picnic for the woman or the doctor. I read a lengthy story about Dr. Tiller and his compassion for not only his patients facing a very difficult situation but that he also helped facilitate adoptions. Please, please cut out the hate talk and the name-calling. Until one of you posters face the grievous news that the life you've been carrying for months is not viable, don't judge. Christians? Jesus Christ taught love, not hate; taught "judge not" not name-calling. Our deepest sympathy goes out to Dr. Tiller's family and his staff.

Graychin, Eucha (6/2/2009 9:38:43 AM)

Dr. Tiller did not perform late-term abortions for fun. He performed them in extreme circumstances, as in the case of a dead twin fetus, a baby formed with no face and no possibility of survival, for women on the verge of kidney failure, and in other circumstances too awful to contemplate. His patients were women who wanted children.

Isaac Parker has no idea what he is talking about. He has absorbed too much Religious Right propaganda to be able to admit new facts.

Why are doctors who will perform the procedures in which Tiller's clinic specialized so very rare? Because of domestic terrorism.

CowboyBobDog, A long way away (6/2/2009 9:51:30 AM)

Thou shalt not kill.
The proper translation is "not murder".
Some of my fellow conservatives should re-read their posts and pause for thought.

(Bobdog is out the doggie door to enjoy what may be the last cool breeze of the summer.)

Royce, Tulsa (6/2/2009 10:21:12 AM)

Of course the killer Tiller had far more victims than did Ted Bundy and only the bleeding heart, criminal coddling, left wingers mourned his passing.

Tiller, like Bundy, got exactly what he deserved.

Scritchner, Tulsa (6/2/2009 10:31:04 AM)

Royce,

What law exactly did Tiller break? Why wasn't he arrested if what he was doing was so wrong and illegal?

Criminal coddling? Maybe, but not in this case. I hope God shows you the same compassion that you are showing for Tiller.

CowboyBobDog, A long way away (6/2/2009 10:37:22 AM)

Royce, Royce, Royce,
anarchy is thy name.

(Some folks can even embarrass a Bulldog)

human1, Cast you fate to the wind (6/2/2009 10:39:33 AM)

I did not think even the right wing approved of vigilante law.

It is rediculous to bring Ted Bundy into this!

human1, Cast you fate to the wind (6/2/2009 10:50:44 AM)

Royce...the killer Tiller had far more victims than did Ted Bundy

Ted Bundy was first arrested, then tried in front of a jury and had the opportunity to file appeals prior to his execution in Florida! This is part of the american judical system many right wing extremist seem to want to remove from the constitution.

When was Mr. Tiller tried and found guilty of a crime by a jury or if not found guilty by a criminal court, or found guilty in civil court and ordered to stop his practice and pay restitution to the embryos?

This has nothing to do with leftist views, it is about due process.

Even Al Capone got a trial, and so did Timithy McViegh!

lucky girl, mine (6/2/2009 11:13:09 AM)

It's sad that he was murdered....period

Astro1, (6/2/2009 11:22:20 AM)

The abortion issue is one of the few on which I disagree with the TW's editorials. I just wanted to say that I appreciate the sentence that reads, "Many sincere, faithful Americans view abortion as murder."