Bullhead, Nicut (4/25/2009 10:11:35 AM)

Okay, I want to be the first NA to admit that I never looked at this issue in this manner. I now understand why many people really feel this way. I accept this and I won't make any further rebuttals about using NA mascots. I appreciate this letter. KUDOS.

Quiescence, Tulsa (4/25/2009 1:00:00 PM)

Wow. What’s next? We eliminate Cowboys as mascots? It can be pointed out that some of them didn’t exactly have good relations with Native Americans. Is that what those who chose a Cowboy as a mascot had in mind? Seriously, if you had to consider all possible negative connotations of a mascot, how would any mascots ever be chosen?

But Mr. Narcomey is exactly right. Schools, universities, and professional teams should immediately discard their use of American Indian mascots if for no other reason than to disassociate themselves with people who choose to be victimized by the use of symbols of their heritage, and use arguments such as Mr. Narcomey does to reinforce that victimization. Who wants a victim as a mascot?

I submit it’s a choice to be disrespected by a symbol of heritage. Let’s say I was of Scandinavian origin. Should I be incensed over the use of a Viking as a mascot? Only if I choose to be, and look for as many reasons as I can. “Viking” is a generic term for many Scandinavian tribes who were fearless explorers and fearsome warriors, but they were also known for the raping and pillaging of villages along the English coast. So, I don’t like that particular last reference. But, I can choose to decide that a group who wants to use a Viking as a mascot is doing so for the positive characteristics of Vikings, or, I can choose to be judgmental and think that someone is picking a Viking as a mascot because they want people to think about raping and pillaging. And I can choose to be affronted if I’m Norwegian to be lumped in with Swedes and Danes. In either case, I am making assumptions about the intentions of someone else. Ultimately, it’s my choice whether I decide that someone is picking a Viking as a mascot has good intentions or bad ones, and I choose how their decision affects my mental disposition with regards to my heritage.

Bothersome within Mr. Narcomey’s missive is the many assumptions he makes about how non-native American people use and view these mascots. He is guilty of the very thing he is asserts the one of the “uses” of mascots does (stereotyping) when he makes statements such as “In the time when the mascots were created — the 1920s, '30s and '40s — the United States populace did not have a positive view of people of color.”, “If all that the general public sees and hears about the Indian culture is as a sports mascot…”, and “Team names such as Redskins, Indians, Seminoles, etc., lump that tribal distinctiveness into a caricaturized notion of uniformity.”. Does he really think that those were the intentions when the choice was made for an Indian mascot, and that is really how most non-Native Americans view them? I happen to think people who chose Indian mascots made that choice neither to be disrespectful nor even to “honor” them, but rather they viewed an ideal of a warrior who battles against injustice against all odds. Only if Mr. Narcomey assumes there was malice in the choice and continues to be can he extend it to cause all the ills to Native Americans he asserts it does. That assumption is a choice he makes, and thus primarily associates all the negative aspects of Indian mascots with non-Native Americans, not with how he himself or his people view them.

Should I be indignant over his apparent view of non-Native Americans?

No. I choose to feel sorry for him. He is choosing to be a victim. What’s really sad is that he appears to want that to be the view and choice for many others.

FS, Broken Arrow (4/25/2009 1:31:58 PM)

Up until the past ten years or so, one never would have guessed having a native American mascot would have been hurtful. Many I had spoken with (of NA descent) got a helluva laugh out of some of the characterisations.

But now, in this politically correct charade of society's, it's become fashionable to become offended at the drop of a hat, regardless of whether or not the "offensive whatever" even applies to the one taking offense.

As Quiescence (above) points out, it's the desire to be a victim talking.

Dear God - do we have a sick society or what?

It may well be the flouride in the water but I'm taking no chances - I just made a new tin-foil hat!

CPT Ron, Lawton (4/25/2009 1:55:20 PM)

Team mascots are chosen for thier warrior image, to show what great fighters the teams are. It is an honor to be chosen for a team mascot. Mascots are chosen to boost team spirit and team morale.

Oklahoma State University has a Cowboy for a mascot, and many schools have tigers, cougers, and lions for team mascots.

Other schools have Indian mascots such as Braves, Indians, and Warrors. These are honorary mascots representing strength, endurance, skill, and courage.

No one should be offended by a mascot. If anyone is offended by a mascot they need to go to a self esteam class, and get over it.

Democrat, Tulsa County (4/25/2009 2:06:18 PM)

Quiescence:

Have you asked real cowboys and real Norwegians how they feel about the mascots?

FS:

Where have you been? This has been an issue for far more than 19 years. Stanford changed their team name from Indians to Cardinal around 1970. OU and NSU both got rid of Native-American mascots at about that time as well.

CPT Ron:

That is mighty white of you to suggest that the portion of American Indians who get offended by such mascots need a self-esteem class. Perhaps you should take a sensitivity class.

FS, Broken Arrow (4/25/2009 4:28:51 PM)

Democrat, Tulsa County (4/25/2009 2:06:18 PM)
... snip
FS:
Where have you been? This has been an issue for far more than 19 years. Stanford changed their team name from Indians to Cardinal around 1970. OU and NSU both got rid of Native-American mascots at about that time as well.
... snip
_____________________

I probably missed your examples as I have much better to do with my time than watch outsized adolescents chase balls around fields.

Democrat, Tulsa County (4/25/2009 4:49:10 PM)

So why did you comment, Einstein?

Ayo, T-Town (4/25/2009 8:10:34 PM)

Excellent letter, Mr. Narcomey. The mascot dilemma is one I've recently been studying, and musing. I use to be sort of ambivalent. Sort of. Not any more.

This isn't about being a victim. It's about having respect for the culture and religion of fellow Americans. Yes, religion. You see, many of the 'props' that these schools use with these mascots are dime store imitations of regalia and items which are used with religious practices. Do you think any of us would name a school mascot the Messiah's and make a prop of a crucifix? Essentially, that is what's happening. None of us would ever dream of disrespecting Christians in that way.

Societies evolve, and people have to evolve with it. There are many things that once was acceptable, but have changed. Remember Sambo's Restaurant? Do you think anyone would name a restaurant Sambo's in 2009? No, they wouldn't.

As for the Vikings, they are no longer alive. Native Americans are still living, still practicing their religions and tribal customs and culture, and still running their governments as sovereign nations.

The mascots mock all Native Americans even if the kids at the schools think they are honoring them. It isn't honoring someone when you make a caricature of what you THINK they are like.

Tulsaboyw, tulsa (4/25/2009 8:15:39 PM)

I agree with the letter up to a point.

Bu there have been many a mascot in some areas of USA that not only had indian consultation, but were in fact per the very indians consulted.

Yet years later that same group now claims its wrong despite the fact that the mascot used was in fact their leaderships choice.

But I agree with the letter in general.

But now that they are using Cardinals, I might think thats not right as it disparages birds?

Democrat, Tulsa County (4/25/2009 9:36:44 PM)

Tulsaboyw:

Notice that I wrote Cardinal. There is no s in the word. They are not like St. Louis or Arizona professional sports teams. The Stanford team is named for its primary school color, just as Harvard is the Crimson and Alabama is the Crimson Tide.

CPT Ron, Lawton (4/25/2009 11:20:35 PM)

Democrat,

I did not "suggest that the portion of American Indians who get offended by such mascots need a self-esteem class," as you misquoted me to say.
I said that, "If anyone is offended by a mascot they need to go to a self esteam class..."

There is a difference in that I did not single out one group of people as you did. This principle applies to all people, not just a few.

CPT Ron, Lawton (4/25/2009 11:29:31 PM)

I went to Cherokee Elementary School and Cherokee Junior High School in Tulsa. It is now Cherokee Middle School. The school was named after the Cherokee Tribe. Is symbol is the head of a Cherokee Chief wearing a full War Bonnet.

I don't think that this caused any of our Indian students to commit suicide.

CPT Ron, Lawton (4/25/2009 11:31:19 PM)

I went to Tulsa Central High School. Its football team is called the Central Braves.

I don't think that this caused any of our Indian students to commit suicide.

CPT Ron, Lawton (4/25/2009 11:32:49 PM)

Correction: I think that Cherokee is now an Elementary School only.

Arbythree, Tulsa (4/25/2009 11:34:51 PM)

This topic is overdone. When I when Powerball, I will buy a school and name them, the "CASINOS".

OK!!????

Arbythree, Tulsa (4/25/2009 11:38:40 PM)

Sorry...State school educated. That should have been "win"

Nik, Tulsa (4/25/2009 11:54:27 PM)

I think that having a indian for a mascot is insulting. Other mascots are animals and animals shouldnt be compared with indians. Im 14 and i am a indian boy from tulsa and thats what i think.

Ayo, T-Town (4/26/2009 12:35:18 AM)

CPR Ron, Cherokees don't wear, and have NEVER worn 'war bonnets'. That's just one way to point out the problem. It's like they take all 500 plus tribes in American, and throw us in a pot and come up with a Hollywood vesion of Indian gumbo.

It isn't about being so damaged that one 'commits suicide'. Go read my posts again, please.

Hey, I went to Central too, and I loved my HS. It was cool when it was downtown.

rockfan, broken arrow (4/26/2009 2:57:52 AM)

Maybe it's time for the NA mascots to go.
I think this is a good time to mention some great Native Americans.
1 Cheif Joseph
2Sequoyah
3Sitting Bull
4Crazy Horse
5Geronimo
6Tecumseh
7Cheif Dan George
8Iron Eyes Cody
9Jim Thorpe
10Will Rogers

Priceless, Jenks (4/26/2009 9:12:01 AM)

I'm a cougar and I am incensed that I am being used as a mascot!

Priceless, Jenks (4/26/2009 9:16:01 AM)

Where can I find a Cougar self esteem class, I've been feeling suicidal?

Priceless, Jenks (4/26/2009 9:18:56 AM)

Of course, Pocahontas was left off the list because she was a woman. Some things never change.

CPT Ron, Lawton (4/26/2009 9:37:28 AM)

Nik, Thanks for writing. I also went to Oklahoma State University. The mascot for OSU is a cowboy with a huge cowboy hat. I don't think that the OSU Cowboy mascot insults anyone, and I don't think that animal mascots are compared to cowboys.

CPT Ron, Lawton (4/26/2009 9:45:36 AM)

Ayo, I am really surprised to read that there are 560 soverign Indian nation tribes in the USA.

Also, maybe the image for Cherokee Elementary School in Tulsa should be revised to correctly reflect the picture of a real Cherokee Tribal Chief.

Or, maybe the Cherokee Tribe should select a new image for Cherokee Elementary School that they think would be more appropriate.

redbeard, Stillwater (4/26/2009 10:15:05 AM)

He makes a good point. If Native Americans are offended by this practice, why not change it?